Cash Game Limit Chip Breakdown Advice (1 Viewer)

[bergs]

Helping a friend with the breakdown of a potential limit set he's interested in and wanted to share this with the community, get feedback, alternative ideas, etc.

Berg's Things To Consider When Building A Limit Set:

Plan for each player to buy in for 25 big bets....
.....3/6 buyin = $150
.....4/8 buyin = $200
.....5/10 buyin = $250
.....6/12 buyin = $300
.....pink chip (7.50/15) buyin = $375
....8/16 buyin = $400
....10/20 buyin = $500

Decide what sort of betting structure you want...
...2 chips / 4 chips - typically optimal without a dedicated dealer
...3 chips / 6 chips - also optimal without a dedicated dealer
...4 chips / 8 chips - can be used more effectively if you have a dedicated dealer
...1 chip / 2 chips - manageable but not really chip aficionado friendly (tends to kill action a bit as well but game moves fast)
...5 chips or over...not really manageable with or without a dealer.

Decide which chip will be your workhorse chip...
....3/6 limit = $1 / $3
....4/8 limit = $1 / $2
....5/10 limit = $2.50 optimal, $5 acceptable
....6/12 limit = $2 optimal, $3 acceptable ($1 unmanageable)
....pink chip = $2.50 only choice
....8/16 limit = $2 only real choice
....10/20 limit = $2.50 and $5 both optimal

Be mindful of player's buy in tendencies...
....1 rack minimum
....2 rack preferred
....assume 8 players max for mixed games other than just Hold 'Em and Omaha

Be mindful of rebuys...
You'll need higher denomination chips for rebuys, and you'll really want to have spare workhorse chips as well. It's less fun for a big stack on a heater to have to break down his chip pyramid and get 8 high denomiation chips in return.

Is this pretty consistent with what other people have done with designing their limit sets, or do people have different ideas?

 

[slisk250]

I think you are right on for 8 players. I have 1600 1s and 200 25s customs planned that should do it just fine or 2400 1s if I use the Terrible's.

 

[JFCJ]

Great information. I've only played limit a few times, but much rather play $4/$8 with $2s, than $5/$10 with $5s...

 

[pltrgyst]

Great advice overall.

My only exception would be that I love playing 3-6 with all $3 chips -- those gorgeous orange Ace's -- and $100 plaques (a few $1s for the odd buck). $3/3 blinds, $3 bring-in. All good.

 

[ohio3302016]

Looks pretty good. My only question would be how would incorporating a Kill into the game effect chip amounts. Limit with a Kill is much more fun, imo.

 

[bergs]

Looks pretty good. My only question would be how would incorporating a Kill into the game effect chip amounts. Limit with a Kill is much more fun, imo.

The structure and chip selection doesn't change with a kill game...you just need more chips (figure on 2.5 - 3 racks for each player if it's a kill game).

The only exception would be a 1 chip / 2 chip structure like $5/10 limit Omaha hi/lo with $5 chips...most players buyin for $250-300 so with a kill (half or full), buying in for a full rack should suffice nicely.

 

[ohio3302016]

The structure and chip selection doesn't change with a kill game...you just need more chips (figure on 2.5 - 3 racks for each player if it's a kill game).

The only exception would be a 1 chip / 2 chip structure like $5/10 limit Omaha hi/lo with $5 chips...most players buyin for $250-300 so with a kill (half or full), buying in for a full rack should suffice nicely.

My bad. That's what I was asking (the buy-in amount).

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Good rules. I've been thinking about this myself a lot lately. Depending on the chips you're looking at (in a general sense), and if you're not OCD enough to have this bother you, getting non-denomination chips is perfect for a limit set IMO.

2000+ of the workhorse chip, and 2-3 racks of the secondary "higher" chip is my personal target.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

Is this going to be a non denom set or are you trying to figure out what limit set to get??

Personally I like a 2 chip/ 4 chip or a 3 chip/6 chip game for a limit structure. Just enough chips to throw around with out getting overly cumbersome. As for the higher 2nd denom I would lean towards a 10x or 20x value depending on your workhorse value and your buy ins

 

[churlbut18]

I love how you've laid out the information and I agree with everything you have (i.e. 25 big bet buy ins, avoiding 1 chip / 2 chip structure when possible, etc...)

You mention the workhorse chip, but I think it would be worth indicating that a limit set only needs to contain 2 denominations at a minimum, and if you can arrange it so that the high value denomination is 20x the workhorse denomination you will have that very efficient ratio where 1 low denomination barrel is equivalent to 1 high denomination chip for making change, etc...

Having your charts go lower than $3/$6 would be nice too. For example, I play $0.50/$1 Limit, with $0.25 and $0.50 blinds, buy in of $25 (25 big bets), workhorse chip being $0.25 making this a 2 chip / 4 chip structure, high denomination chip being $5 (20 x workhorse), and starting stack of 60 x $0.25 / 2 x $5 (because I couldn't afford a 1200+ chip set at the time).

Finally, it would be nice to see recommendations on starting stacks and set breakdowns (taking into consideration rebuys) to get started.

Great stuff though.

 

[manamongkids]

Is this "friend" of yours, in fact, you? Please be yes

 

[bergs]

Is this "friend" of yours, in fact, you? Please be yes

Well, after playing the pink chip game at Borgata this weekend with the folks from ATLARGE, I'm definitely getting a big Bud Jones limit set, but I already know exactly what I'm getting...this was in response to a fellow PCFer asking some questions via email. I've gleaned alot from @jbutler over the years so most of this is stuff he's planted in my head, but hopefully it helps people when thinking about a limit set.

 

[bergs]

Is this going to be a non denom set or are you trying to figure out what limit set to get??

Personally I like a 2 chip/ 4 chip or a 3 chip/6 chip game for a limit structure. Just enough chips to throw around with out getting overly cumbersome. As for the higher 2nd denom I would lean towards a 10x or 20x value depending on your workhorse value and your buy ins

If you can do a 20x single chip it's perfect...my Truman's House set has 1400 $1s for $3/6 and $4/8 (7 players max given the games we play) and we use $20s for rebuys, works perfectly as a two chip set.

One caution, specific to stud games...you might need a third denomination (lower than your workhorse denom) if you play games like stud variants that require a bring-in bet.

 

[abby99]

This has been mentioned before but bears repeating: Non-denominated chips can be anything you need them to be. Minimum 1600 workhorse and 100-200 higher value chips.

We avoid the need for a third denomination by using a dealer ante equal to the small bet, and the bring-in equal to 1/2 the small bet. If the small bet isn't divisible by 2, then the bring-in can be 1/3 or 2/3 of the small bet. Unless you're playing a 1-chip/2-chip game, you don't need a third denomination. This can and does work.

 

[jbutler]

OP perfect imo. I have come around over the past few years on playing $5/10 (often $5/10/15) with $5 chips. Not chip aficionado-friendly, I know, but in a loose game where you're rarely playing for one bet per street, you still get lots of chips in the middle. I know @H|Q is even a bigger fan of this structure than I am. If I could choose to play $5/10 with $2.50 chips, I would, but I no longer look askance at redbirds playing for a $5/10 game like I used to.

Also, as @bergs and I discussed at ATLARGE, a $2.50/5/7.50 game would be great for the NH/MA group as there are at least 2 bets going in on every street, so it would be totally acceptable to play only pink chips in that game.

 

[ohio3302016]

If you can do a 20x single chip it's perfect...my Truman's House set has 1400 $1s for $3/6 and $4/8 (7 players max given the games we play) and we use $20s for rebuys, works perfectly as a two chip set.

One caution, specific to stud games...you might need a third denomination (lower than your workhorse denom) if you play games like stud variants that require a bring-in bet.

This has been mentioned before but bears repeating: Non-denominated chips can be anything you need them to be. Minimum 1600 workhorse and 100-200 higher value chips.

We avoid the need for a third denomination by using a dealer ante equal to the small bet, and the bring-in equal to 1/2 the small bet. If the small bet isn't divisible by 2, then the bring-in can be 1/3 or 2/3 of the small bet. Unless you're playing a 1-chip/2-chip game, you don't need a third denomination. This can and does work.

This what we do. It works well, imo.

 

[bergs]

OP perfect imo. I have come around over the past few years on playing $5/10 (often $5/10/15) with $5 chips. Not chip aficionado-friendly, I know, but in a loose game where you're rarely playing for one bet per street, you still get lots of chips in the middle. I know @H|Q is even a bigger fan of this structure than I am. If I could choose to play $5/10 with $2.50 chips, I would, but I no longer look askance at redbirds playing for a $5/10 game like I used to.

Also, as @bergs and I discussed at ATLARGE, a $2.50/5/7.50 game would be great for the NH/MA group as there are at least 2 bets going in on every street, so it would be totally acceptable to play only pink chips in that game.

My plan is to get the following for my pink chip limit set (which I've wanted forever):

Pink Chip Mixed Limit Game - 8 players max
200 white (antes, tips, etc) - enough that everyone can get a stack plus some extras
2000 pink (everyone gets 2 racks plus 4 racks extra, with the realization that alot of people will simply buyin for 1 rack to start; alot of the rebuys will be in pink which makes for huge stacks)
200 yellow ($20s) for rebuys

 

[jbutler]

My plan is to get the following for my pink chip limit set (which I've wanted forever):

Pink Chip Mixed Limit Game - 8 players max
200 white (antes, tips, etc) - enough that everyone can get a stack plus some extras
2000 pink (everyone gets 2 racks plus 4 racks extra, with the realization that alot of people will simply buyin for 1 rack to start; alot of the rebuys will be in pink which makes for huge stacks)
200 yellow ($20s) for rebuys

 

[ohio3302016]

My plan is to get the following for my pink chip limit set (which I've wanted forever):

Pink Chip Mixed Limit Game - 8 players max
200 white (antes, tips, etc) - enough that everyone can get a stack plus some extras
2000 pink (everyone gets 2 racks plus 4 racks extra, with the realization that alot of people will simply buyin for 1 rack to start; alot of the rebuys will be in pink which makes for huge stacks)
200 yellow ($20s) for rebuys

I will have this. Some day....some day...

 

[manamongkids]

I will have this. Some day....some day...

@ohio3302016

 

[pltrgyst]

This has been mentioned before but bears repeating: Non-denominated chips can be anything you need them to be.

As the resident heretic, I would add that even denominated chips can be anything you'd like them to be.

One of my favorite nights was using all black $100 chips as $1 each while playing 1/2 limit. It's the only time I ever got more than a dozen racks of glorious black Aztar, PCA, Highway 9, and CIC chips into play.

And if you use $100 plaques or $20 or $100 octagons as a higher denom (should they be needed -- mine weren't), there's no confusion.

If every chip is worth the same amount, there's no problem with mixing chips of different colors and denominations together. And it makes for some pretty inventive and colorful stacks during play. So if you own, say, 2K chips, you don't need any huge number of a single chip or denom to play limit with tons of chips on the table.

Of course, someone has to do a bit of sorting at the end...

 

[pltrgyst]

I will have this. Some day....some day...

Shameless promotion:

After handling those nice new pink chips at ATLARGE this weekend, the pink snapper in the upcoming AC Boardwalk hybrid chip group buy is looking more and more like a super winner at well under a buck a chip...

 

[Chicken Rob]

I know that when I play limit games, I like to buy in deeper than 25 BB. You need to have at least 12 BB in front of you minimum at all times, and I hate to top up early if I lose a few hands, so I tend to buy in 40-50 BB in a casino.

 

[jbutler]

I know that when I play limit games, I like to buy in deeper than 25 BB. You need to have at least 12 BB in front of you minimum at all times, and I hate to top up early if I lose a few hands, so I tend to buy in 40-50 BB in a casino.

In a regular game it would balance out because there will always be at least a couple guys buying in short. In our games, not so much.

 

[Chicken Rob]

In a regular game it would balance out because there will always be at least a couple guys buying in short. In our games, not so much.

Good points on both game types. I don't mind the idea of using bigger chips as part of my buyin, but 10/20 is 2 racks, and 20/40 is 3-4 racks for me. Topping up at the casino is usually more of a hassle than in a home game.

 

[courage]

Probably 1000-1600 of the lower denom chip is the sweet spot, and i like 20x for the bigger chip (denoms or non).

I prefer the 2 chip/4 chip or 3 chip/6 chip structure.

$4/8 with singles gets cumbersome and a bit slow even with a pro dealer.

 

[Chicken Rob]

I was playing in a game in Vegas in '07. Capped 10 ways pre, flop and turn, river capped only 3 ways. Biggest pile of chips I've ever seen in a pot. It was amazing. That's 92BB in a limit game pot. All red.

Part of me thinks this was a 10/20 game, but my memory of the pile is that it was more than 4 racks, so maybe 15/30 or 20/40. Definitely all red though.

I flopped nut flush draw plus gutter to Broadway. I was sure my A high was no good and folded river on paired board.

 

[jbutler]

I was playing in a game in Vegas in '07. Capped 10 ways pre, flop and turn, river capped only 3 ways. Biggest pile of chips I've ever seen in a pot. It was amazing. That's 92BB in a limit game pot. All red.

Part of me thinks this was a 10/20 game, but my memory of the pile is that it was more than 4 racks, so maybe 15/30 or 20/40. Definitely all red though.

I flopped nut flush draw plus gutter to Broadway. I was sure my A high was no good and folded river on paired board.

Limit poker is among the most brutal of games when shit like this goes down. I'm not sure which is more frustrating, bricking something like this when you're getting that price or drawing to nut/nut in O8 and rivering the only card that gives you 0% of the pot.

 

[BGinGA]

We avoid the need for a third denomination by using a dealer ante equal to the small bet, and the bring-in equal to 1/2 the small bet. If the small bet isn't divisible by 2, then the bring-in can be 1/3 or 2/3 of the small bet. Unless you're playing a 1-chip/2-chip game, you don't need a third denomination. This can and does work.

The dealer ante concept works fine, but your bring-in structure (1/2 of the small bet) doesn't work/apply for any limit game where the small bet equals the lowest denomination chip (such as .25/.50 using quarters, 1/2 using $1s, or 5/10 using $5s, etc.). The dealer ante concept works great (and is much more manageable than individual antes), and when used, blinds can always be BB/BB or just a single BB (no SB), but it's impossible to use a half-chip for a bring-in.

 

[abby99]

The dealer ante concept works fine, but your bring-in structure (1/2 of the small bet) doesn't work/apply for any limit game where the small bet equals the lowest denomination chip (such as .25/.50 using quarters, 1/2 using $1s, or 5/10 using $5s, etc.). The dealer ante concept works great (and is much more manageable than individual antes), and when used, blinds can always be BB/BB or just a single BB (no SB), but it's impossible to use a half-chip for a bring-in.

Oops, forgot about 1-chip/2-chip games. Haven't played one in at least 10 years.