KQ suited (with a tell) (2 Viewers)

grebe said:
I put him on a draw and Jammed for another $60 effective...he insta called with BOTH draws...8h9h....so I was right {kinda}. Outcome really doesnt matter, as it is pretty much a coin flip now....but it held and I stacked him.

Alternate reality: I flat call. Turn comes out 4s. What do you do if:
a) Villain checks
b) Villain leads out for $30
c) Villain jams for $60
Click to expand...
Nice hand. The turn was a perfect card.
 
So, this is actually a better hand to analyze from the villain's point of view. Personally, from early position, I am not a big proponent to playing low suited connectors, so it's probably a fold pre for me. But, if you put yourself here, what do you do on the flop? So, seeing that we had never played together, but I had taken down at least one pot already by aggression, let's say that Hero's image is at least aggressive. We limp with 8h9h and call the raise. Flop comes out giving us an open ender and a flush draw for "the world". Anybody donk bet here? If not, we check and face $15 from preflop aggressor and a Q high board. What's your action as Villain?
 
Frogzilla said:
The speech tells you nothing. Ignore it
Click to expand...
All speech in general or just this speech in particular? The fact that he took so long to act and raised with the speech tells you a lot IMO. He could be trying a reverse tell, which is why the read of the individual and the context of the game are also important.
 
grebe said:
So, this is actually a better hand to analyze from the villain's point of view. Personally, from early position, I am not a big proponent to playing low suited connectors, so it's probably a fold pre for me. But, if you put yourself here, what do you do on the flop? So, seeing that we had never played together, but I had taken down at least one pot already by aggression, let's say that Hero's image is at least aggressive. We limp with 8h9h and call the raise. Flop comes out giving us an open ender and a flush draw for "the world". Anybody donk bet here? If not, we check and face $15 from preflop aggressor and a Q high board. What's your action as Villain?
Click to expand...
If I was villain, I’d of made you play for your stack after the flop. Why give you a chance to feel better if you fade the turn.
 
Hornet said:
All speech in general or just this speech in particular? The fact that he took so long to act and raised with the speech tells you a lot IMO. He could be trying a reverse tell, which is why the read of the individual and the context of the game are also important.
Click to expand...

I mean tanking a bit then min raising could be a draw or a made hand. He doesn't even imply strength vs weakness, just that he has a hand that doesn’t play well as a call. If he is employing deception then his hand also could be something dumb that shouldn’t be check raising. Pretty useless

probably best bet is to just play your hand as if it’s up against a small check raise and whatever that usually means for the stakes/crowd and not let him get so far in your head you make a huge mistake.
 
Frogzilla said:
I mean tanking a bit then min raising could be a draw or a made hand. He doesn't even imply strength vs weakness, just that he has a hand that doesn’t play well as a call. If he is employing deception then his hand also could be something dumb that shouldn’t be check raising. Pretty useless

probably best bet is to just play your hand as if it’s up against a small check raise and whatever that usually means for the stakes/crowd and not let him get so far in your head you make a huge mistake.
Click to expand...
I agree that you could play your hand the same way without taking into account the extra information, but I do think the information expressed in villain’s speech is a factor to be considered. I certainly don’t want anyone in my head, but an opponent talking often helps me in my decisionmaking process, particularly when I feel the opponent is relatively inexperienced or a weak player.
 
Hornet said:
I agree that you could play your hand the same way without taking into account the extra information, but I do think the information expressed in villain’s speech is a factor to be considered. I certainly don’t want anyone in my head, but an opponent talking often helps me in my decisionmaking process, particularly when I feel the opponent is relatively inexperienced or a weak player.
Click to expand...
The fact that he was being very grand standy about the action I took as he wanted the table to watch him make this fancy move....which he would not do with a made hand. My self thought was..."he is on a draw, and he wants everybody to know he is on a draw. You only have top pair, but it has to be good." I dont think he does that if he is check raising with AQ (also, he doubtfully limp/calls preflop with that), two pair, or 777 (you can eliminate 1010 here as well I think). I think he quietly check raises for a larger amount, or possibly flats if he has me beat currently. To my dismay, I was right about the draw, but didnt recognize at the time, he had BOTH draws and was a slight favorite in the hand.

All in all, I think it was a very interesting hand how it played out along with the way he gave information away.
 
Meaningless question... is it still “holding” if the made hand has 47% equity and the combo draw has 53%
 
I’d be interested in hearing about KQ played in a different scenario such as a freeze out!
Buy in is $200, winner gets $2000. True starting stack of $200 with $1/$2 blinds. Blinds slightly increase every time 2 players drop out.
8 players $2/$5
6 players $5/$10
4 players $10/$20
Heads up $25/$50
I’ll set the game up! Who wants some?
 
Lil Tuna said:
I’d be interested in hearing about KQ played in a different scenario such as a freeze out!
Buy in is $200, winner gets $2000. True starting stack of $200 with $1/$2 blinds. Blinds slightly increase every time 2 players drop out.
8 players $2/$5
6 players $5/$10
4 players $10/$20
Heads up $25/$50
I’ll set the game up! Who wants some?
Click to expand...
Ummmm..... No
 
Lil Tuna said:
I’d be interested in hearing about KQ played in a different scenario such as a freeze out!
Buy in is $200, winner gets $2000. True starting stack of $200 with $1/$2 blinds. Blinds slightly increase every time 2 players drop out.
8 players $2/$5
6 players $5/$10
4 players $10/$20
Heads up $25/$50
I’ll set the game up! Who wants some?
Click to expand...
DAMN...I LOVE THIS IDEA!! We're playing this shit sometime in the near future :)
 
detroitdad said:
What i don't like about your format is that it is winner take all. I'm not good enough for that type of structure.
Click to expand...
It’s not about rating how good a player is. I hear all different types of ways a player should or should not play hands.
I want to hear honest opinions from an all or nothing scenario.
Can you as a player lay down pocket AAs to a J high rainbow board after the flop if you lead out and are raised or your check raised after the flop? (Just one example for instance)
I always hear how hands should be played in today’s format of things.
The Main Event used to be a $10000 buy in for the same amount of chips.
IMO the casinos have come up with rebuys and deep stacks to make the fields larger and put more $ in their pockets. It’s big business and I get it but it has changed the game immensely. IMO
I want to hear and see how a player plays a particular hand without the safety net of a rebuy or a deep stack.
I believe a freeze out format reigns in the field of players to a more even level.
 
Lil Tuna said:
It’s not about rating how good a player is. I hear all different types of ways a player should or should not play hands.
I want to hear honest opinions from an all or nothing scenario.
Can you as a player lay down pocket AAs to a J high rainbow board after the flop if you lead out and are raised or your check raised after the flop? (Just one example for instance)
I always hear how hands should be played in today’s format of things.
The Main Event used to be a $10000 buy in for the same amount of chips.
IMO the casinos have come up with rebuys and deep stacks to make the fields larger and put more $ in their pockets. It’s big business and I get it but it has changed the game immensely. IMO
I want to hear and see how a player plays a particular hand without the safety net of a rebuy or a deep stack.
I believe a freeze out format reigns in the field of players to a more even level.
Click to expand...
Can we do a cash game afterwards?
 
Lil Tuna said:
The Main Event used to be a $10000 buy in for the same amount of chips
Click to expand...

but they weren't winner take all. I have no problem with a freeze out tourney. Hell. i actually prefer them. Im not interested in a winner take all. Give me a payout structure and I'm in
 

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