PAHWMx2: AKo twice against the same villain (1 Viewer)

[Taghkanic]

I played in a private, lightly-raked 1/3 game last weekend. I’m a regular in this game, while the villain only shows up from time-to-time, since he normally plays higher. But he’s someone I have played with many times before, perhaps as many as 75-80 times, mostly at 2/5.

Villain profile: Probably the best player I encounter with any regularity in all of my area’s home/private games. He’s a true math whiz who has studied poker in great depth. He also plays a ton online, sometimes while sitting in live games—which can get annoying, if it causes him to be slow to act, but is a positive because you don't want his full attention on the hand...

Villain likes to put a lot of pressure on his opponents. He doesn't get too far out of line as far as opening ranges, but plays position more aggressively than most 1/3 players (i.e. correctly much tighter from early positions, wider from the button). He often makes big polarized bets on the river, when the situation and opponent warrants it; and he’s capable of both running a crazy bluff and making a big laydown. He’s totally focused on board textures, opponent tendencies, bet sizing tells, etc. He’ll remember hands you’ve played together many months later.

In short, the hardest guy to play AKo against from early position, which was my situation in both of these hands. (We hate AK, right? Right? Or do we?)

I’ll start Hand #1 in the next post...

 

[Taghkanic]

So this was relatively early in the evening, but I had already run things up a bit from my initial max buy-in of $500 up to about $950. Villain arrived a bit late, bought in for $500 as well, and now has more like $650. So $650 effective.

Player on the button straddles for $10. SB folds, BB calls.

I look down at , and make it $35. A bit light, considering there is already $21 in the pot. But the straddler is someone who often 3bets me. And the villain (who is in the cutoff) loves to squeeze in these pots. So I went a bit smaller so as not to bloat things too much, especially since with the $10 straddle we are now more like 65BB effective.

Sure enough, Villain 3bets me to $140. The straddle thinks longer than necessary, then folds, as does the BB.

Normally here I might 4bet: My hand is strong, but hard to play out of position. Villain can be 3betting with a lot of worse hands including most Broadway combos, all suited Ax, probably some suited Kx, lower suited connectors down to 78 or even 56, and all pocket pairs.

If I 4bet to something like $360, that would pretty much commit both of us, since the villain would only have $290 behind. I’m not that eager to face a potential 5bet all in, though I have a hand which is ahead of AQs/AJs and is flipping with pocket pairs... So I wuss out and just flat for the extra $105, hoping to hit the flop.

Now we are going to the flop heads up with $201 in the pot pre-rake (which will max out here at $10).

(I’ll continue the hand in the next post, capping this one here in case anyone wants to just comment on the preflop action, though I don't think my decision is too controversial.

 

[Taghkanic]

Flop for Hand #1, heads up OOP withat , $201 in the pot before rake:



I am pretty much checking my entire range. I could see an argument for donk-betting a paired flop, but I felt a check was standard, all the moreso against an aggressive villain at this stack depth. (He has $510 behind, so 5:2 stack to pot effectively).

Villain thinks for a bit then bets $160, ~3/4 pot.

So it’s now $160 for me to call. If I do there would be $521 going to the turn (-$10 rake), and villain would have $350 behind, which I cover.

What would you do? Folding, calling and shoving all seemed in play for me here... I’ll hold my decision for a bit to see what thoughts there are if any.

 

[suchj0sh]

4-bet pre and call it off. Gotta call flop.

 

[acezag]

I think you have to commit preflop against villain as described, or face the predictably tough post flop decisions that will come with him 70% of the time.

 

[Taghkanic]

I can see the arguments for just shoving with a premium hand. Maybe because it was early, and I was up, and I felt the rest of the table was a lot weaker than this villain, I chickened out and called.

In any case, my flop thinking on a 3T3 rainbow board holding AKo, facing a 3/4 pot cbet:

I felt that this was a below-average flop for the preflop 3better, given the squeezing range I assigned to him preflop.

Yes, he can have a very few combos of A3s and K3s—I didn't think he was squeezing with 34s—and some Tx, and lots of pocket pairs. But I thought overall this flop missed him a good deal of the time.

Holding “nut no pair,” my main consideration at this point was our many past battles, and also what I have observed of his play against others as well. This villain thinks, probably correctly, that he is the best player almost everywhere he goes. He plays more appropriate ranges, almost never just flats, and keeps his foot on the gas on multiple streets when he thinks he can get folds. He will bet his made hands much the same as his misses, just at a somewhat lower frequency, again unless he thinks he has a ton of fold equity.

And this aggression works for him a lot: He realizes his fold equity a ton, and when he gets looked up by people trying to catch him speeding, he usually has some decent odds of catching up on later streets.

In recent sessions, he had been reraising me a lot, and firing multiple barrels. I have had some success bluff-catching him, but also have caved in to his aggression a lot, making his bluffs and semi-bluffs profitable. I’ve not often paid him off with worse, but it has happened.

Here I was thinking: If we both missed the flop, I am ahead. If he has a 10, I still have two big overs (which partially block his AT/KT combos). If he somehow flopped trips or a boat, oh well.

I could see the arguments for folding (I missed and a cut my losses at $140). And also for shoving, if I truly believe that he missed the flop worse than I did. I might even be able to get him to fold a pocket pair 99 or below, since he thinks I’m fairly tight.

But partly due to thinking he has been pushing me out of pots too much; partly out of ego (“you can't bully me!”); and largely due to the board texture, I decide to split the difference and just call again.

Turn coming up...

 

[Taghkanic]

So we’re going to the turn with $510 in the pot. I cover the Villain, who has $350 left. So less than a pot-sized bet.

Turn is the , making the board . I have AKo with the K of spades in my hand.

Villain again thinks for his standard 15-20 seconds, then shoves for his remaining $350.

Pot is now $860, and will be $1,200 after rake if I call.

Thoughts?

 

[acezag]

With your check call on the flop, I think his money is going in on the turn regardless. But he may be a lot more correct to do it seeing a two-way out come on the turn.

If he bets again on the turn, that means you checked? I think that's two missed bets, in that case.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

You explained perfectly why you should raise him pre-flop then didn't, that's okay but I hate playing him OOP with AK. I've read it in lots of books that calling isn't a compromise, its the worst option and I think this may be one of those situations on the flop. We're playing against a dangerous opponent out of position, if we call the flop we know another bet is coming if he's a thinking playing and we just capped our range with less than a pot-sized bet left.

What does he perceive you as having when you call then check/call? AT tops? Does he expect you to check raise JJ on the flop or is that still present? We called pre-flop so he doesn't expect a big pocket pair but TT maybe still present. If your thought process was that you were ahead turn, you're still ahead. Call and wait for him to flip.

 

[Taghkanic]

@acezag Yes, I checked again, and then he shoved.

@NotRealNameNoSir I think he does expects me to donk or check raise JJ on the flop. Probably also any AT. If there is any upside to my checking flop and turn out of position, it’s that he likely thinks I’m going to give up when he fires the second bullet with hands I’m actually ahead of.

--------

Anyway, it’s now my $350 to call with a pot of $860, i.e. $1,200 including my call, still holding nut no pair.

So what can Villain have here?

I’m losing to two combos of suited A3 (I don't think he squeezes with A3o preflop), all pocket pairs, and some Tx. I’m still ahead of a lot of his preflop range, because I just don't see him having many 2s at all. I have a little equity still in my AKo hand from some miracle rivers, but not a lot.

For draws brought in by the 2s turn, Villain is capable of having all the remaining A4s and A5s hands which just turned a gutter. Possibly some 45 suited, an open-ender, but I had ruled that out preflop and should not be putting it back in his range now just because it would look good. Maybe 6s7s which is now a flush draw and a gutter. Also all the remaining AsXs flush draws... I have the Ks, so those flush draws are out.

Would he double-barrel all of his other misses (Broadway combos without an ace, say?) or only those with some equity, such as QsXs? Not a lot of those left, given that I am holding the Ks and I don't want him having AT/QT. Qs9s? Seems a bit fishy even for a guy who squeezes wide against weaker fields.

I put myself in this spot. Normally I would fold. But then I got caught up in the meta-game: He thinks he’ll get a fold, even though the price is starting to look good. I rangechecked on the flop, then floated his cbet, then showed weakness on the turn. If there is any upside to my (probably inadvisable) play, it’s that I encouraged him to push more of his bluffs to balance his made hands.

I finally called. He wanted to only run it once. River/result after I give others a chance to comment if they like.

 

[mipevi]

Easy 4bet pre OOP against a good player looking to give you a hard time (at basically 65BB effective). You put yourself in a tricky spot, looks like fancy play syndrome TBH.

Edit: I will say the 3/4 pot cbet on rainbow 3T3 is pretty sus. Prolly a leveling war at this point, so I wouldn't know what to make of it.

 

[Gunnar]

First of all it sounds like you were playing me. I’m an polarised aggro player. It also sounds if the table is weaker than the villain why are we not going away on the flop?

Pre flop you limit the top range of your range by calling. I hate this move, I actually hate calling with AK preflop because that tells people I don’t have AA - QQ he on the other hand has all the premium options left… specially in early position I don’t want to go the flop with a capped range against someone behind me with a open range on top. But that is just me.

Not betting that flop?!
Let’s see your range as played? AK 77-JJ maybe A10, and some suited aces, AQ,AJ

Would you check JJ and A10? No you just told the villain by checking that you have Ace high or a monster 1010 in my opinion. Bet your range not your cards. It sounds like you are scared of the villain and just sat down in the passenger seat and are hoping to hit.

Against a tight player the check is fine but against a aggro player that wants to control you have already capped your range and giving him control on the flop.

Turn is same, you show more weakness and he blasts. Sure he could be bluffing but he could be bluffing with 44 or A2 and still has you beat, he could have a lot of hands that beat you. When we check on the turn what are we hoping for on the river if he checks back? An Ace?

All opinion above is written by me a mediocre poker player take with a grain of salt.

 

[Taghkanic]

River is an offsuit 8.

I wait to show my hand. He says “You’re good” and mucks.

This villain very much avoids showing when he doesn't have to, but I believe he would never have shown anything which had any showdown value. This leans me toward thinking he was pushing with hands like A5s, maybe QsJs, 6s7s, maybe even some random Broadways.

Unwisely (or maybe wisely, for future metagame) I show my AKo. He looks at the ceiling and puffs out his cheeks, which based on our history I took to mean “I did not think you would call with that unimproved.” Or maybe he (correctly?) thought my call was ridiculous.

The table couldn't believe it... I momentarily felt proud of my monstrous bluff-catch, but then thought: “Am I just the dumb station who is incapable of folding a pretty preflop hand?”

In a vacuum, I think I misplayed this hand in many ways. I might still flat preflop, but should have shoved the flop if I really thought it missed him as much as suspected. Against this specific villain... My passive line might actually have been right. Not so because of the result, which was an anomaly, but because I expect to continue playing with this specific Villain a lot.

Now I have to think about how he will adjust, because he most definitely will put this one into the lab.

 

[Taghkanic]

As far as capping my range with the preflop calls and later check/calls… Yes, absolutely.

My only defense is that against a player I’ve played with 6-7 dozen times, and whom I expect to play against many more times, there is way more metagame stuff going in than in (say) a random long casino session where I may be jousting repeatedly with someone, but never see that villain again.

So I’ll make an argument that there are times when it can be good to make your range looked capped, and fill that with both actual middling-to-strong hands and actual monsters. (If I had TT, maybe I play it the same way, for example.)

The next hand may illustrate what I mean… Or it may just be another way to misplay AKo, lol.

 

[Taghkanic]

OK! Hand #2. I once again have AKo in early position.

This time the same villain is the button straddler for $10.

We are both now deeper — I cover everyone on the table with $2,400+. It’s a few hours later, and the table agreed to let people rebuy/top off to $1K.

I started the hand thinking villain had about $800, but it turned out to be $1,200.

A darkish chip he had on top of a stack looked to me like a black $100 chip in the poor lighting, but turned out to be a purple $500. Normally the host announces if there are purples coming in but I must have been in the bathroom
or something. So $400 more than I thought.

My miscalculation of his stack figures somewhat into the later action, but possibly I would have played it the same way. Still a bit sloppy of me.

Preflop action coming up.

 

[Taghkanic]

Pre:

Villain button straddles for $10. Weak player in the SB calls. BB calls. UTG folds.

I have UTG +1.

Once again anticipating a squeeze, I just flat for deception.

Hijack raises to $45.

Folds to Villain on the button who bumps it to $175.

SB & BB fold over to me.

What do you do?

Being fairly deep again (he’s 270BB effective at 1/3, 80BB if you use the straddle and my miscount of his stack, which was actually 50% bigger), I again decided to flat, though for a somewhat different reason — the Hijack who raised to $45 has yet to act, and is genuinely uncapped. I want to see if he shoves (he has “only” $400 in front of him) and if so what the Villain does.

Hijack surprisingly folds, so we go to a flop with $415 already in the pot…

 

[mipevi]

Going with effectively 80BB deep, since that's what decisions were based on. For villain to squeeze someone needs to raise first, so that would have been my line, looking to 4bet villain. As played I would still 4bet, a flat/flat line again looks really fancy play syndromy to me.

 

[Gunnar]

With HJ with only 400$ we must assume that he going all-in or folding. It is a fancy play to just call here because what hands call here and also call the All-in from the HJ? Unless your planning on folding when facing a all-in from HJ? Just bump it up you are the big stack in the hand 4bet and put the decision on them.


I know that HJ folded and you enter the flop with 415$ in the pot. Did the board hit our range ?

 

[acezag]

Really appreciate you sharing these hands, @Taghkanic, and the analysis from others. It's such a fun way to get educated, and I'm taking notes for myself - in particular, I think I often fall into the trap of limiting my range for intelligent opponents by flatting preflop too much with great hands. I also float too much on the flop, mostly due to predictable patterns from those I'm playing with. Seeing your two examples illustrated how I can improve.

 

[Taghkanic]

OK, the flop:



I again have , TP/TK with no flush draw... heads up and first to act.

I mistakenly think Villain has about $625 behind after the preflop actiom, but in reality he has ~$1,025.

Even though I hit the board hard, and there is a flush draw, I’m again checking pretty much my whole range here... except this time with the full intent of check-raising to charge any flush draws.

Villain cbets $225 into the $415 pot, so a little more than half pot. I tend to assume(based on his profile and past hands with him that he is doing this a “correct” percentage of the time, not just with Kx or flush draws. I supposed 45s is also possible though unlikely; even less so with something like 7c8c which also has some remote backdoor straight hopes.

Anyway, I’m having a very good night, kind of feeling my oats and not worrying about every decision to the same extent as usual. Lazily, in-game I did not range the villain as carefully as in the earlier AK hand. All I really saw that I had top-top, and that there was a flush draw out there. I also wrongly assumed he’d have only ~$400 left on the turn if I just called (instead of $800).

If there was any real thought to my decision, it was “He’s always pushing me, and I can get called by worse Kx, draws, and pocket pairs betting to see where they’re at. I’m only behind 66 and 22. If he folds that’s fine too, it’s already a plenty big pot.”

So pretty quickly I announce all-in and flick in one big chip.

After a short tank (60-90 seconds) he calls, with a bit of an exasperated eyeroll…

 

[acezag]

Making this guy tank and groan = 100% made the right move, regardless of the outcome. Love it.

 

[Taghkanic]

I ask if he wants to “do anything,” meaning whether he wants to run it more than once, and we agree to twice. (I’m always amenable to any requests along these lines, just seems good for the game and smooths out variance in-session if not long-term.)

Board (1) runs out Kx, no clubs, for trips.

Board (2) runs out Ax, no clubs, for top two.

Since he called me I turn my cards over and say “Both boards improved me.” He again gets an exasperated look and mucks without showing.

I assume he had to have had a flush draw to make the call, but don’t really know. Maybe he was tilted and went with a pocket pair or something like AQ, thinking I was light again like the first hand; but that’s really not like him.

It then comes out that he had a $500 chip not a $100, so I win $400 more than expected. Villain asks “Would you have played it the same if you’d known I had more?” but I just shrug. Uncharacteristically, Villain does not rebuy for the max and instead leaves for the night.

...

So both of these AKo hands were winners for me, though in very different ways. This wound up one of my better nights of 1/3 ever, though I gave some money back over the next few hours not wanting to hit-and-run: In for $500, out for $3,450, +$2,950. But I should say before getting too smug about the results that (a) I’ve lost plenty of big hands in the past to this player, (b) very easily could have lost the first hand where I made an unconventional call with just nut no pair, based on our history and the board texture; and (b) also could have lost or chopped the second hand if another club came.

My main focus related to these hands is to figure out if there are lessons to be learned going forward against this player—I tend to think not many, mostly because he will adjust. I do need to watch how he plays against me in the future, and probably will play fairly ABC against him until I get a refreshed read.

 

[Gunnar]

Im guessing AQs or AJs hard to call with other hands but who knows.

Well I like this push there you are targeting the flush draws quite hard and should get folds from almost every hand that you beat.

But as you said you play this villain regularly and that gives you better insight than all of us here in the forum. I have villains in my game where I will take on crazy mind games and just this week I bet 750$ a river with pocket 44, board being 5-2-10-Q-6 2 spades. Flush missed, straight missed and my villain that I probably have 100 big hands with goes in the tank and finds out that I’m bluffing and calls with AKo. He did not just think of the possibility that my bluff was stronger than his bluff catcher. That call makes no sense to most players but all I could think of is damn he was close…

 

[extreme517]

Admittedly, I'm a better PLO player.

Hand 1: Your math is off if it was $140 to call preflop and some dead money means the pot is already $300ish. I like your play given the dynamic/read of the villain that you call knowing you're never folding and just giving him rope to hang himself by checking to him on future streets. I applaud the thought process if it was something like this. You're not capped in my mind because you call the $140. And the paired flop is actually great for your hand in my opinion. Multiple paint cards and you might have to fold.

Hand 2: With stacks so deep I want to be cautious playing out of position. I probably fold to the $175 figuring I'm behind one or the other (hijack/button) and live to fight another day, hopefully in position. What are you hoping to hit with AKo out of position in a bloated pot? I don't want to put $800-1200 in a 1-3 game pot with TPTK.

Feel free to trash me and any of my thoughts above; I'm here to learn.

 

[dannyssteez]

4-bet pre and call it off. Gotta call flop.

Jam and call both seem fine preflop, I don't think there's really a normal 4bet range with so little behind, flop is at least a call I think he's c-betting nearly 100% of range here

Pre:

Villain button straddles for $10. Weak player in the SB calls. BB calls. UTG folds.

I have UTG +1.

Once again anticipating a squeeze, I just flat for deception.

Hijack raises to $45.

Folds to Villain on the button who bumps it to $175.

SB & BB fold over to me.

What do you do?

Being fairly deep again (he’s 270BB effective at 1/3, 80BB if you use the straddle and my miscount of his stack, which was actually 50% bigger), I again decided to flat, though for a somewhat different reason — the Hijack who raised to $45 has yet to act, and is genuinely uncapped. I want to see if he shoves (he has “only” $400 in front of him) and if so what the Villain does.

Hijack surprisingly folds, so we go to a flop with $415 already in the pot…

Now with the extra fold equity of the hijack I'd feel really incentiviced to 4bet squeeze, def don't want to play AK OOP 3 ways

 

[Taghkanic]

Now with the extra fold equity of the hijack I'd feel really incentiviced to 4bet squeeze, def don't want to play AK OOP 3 ways

True; I agree in 95% of similar situations. But this play was pretty villain-specific: I had developed a strong hunch that he was stealing/bluffing way too often, and happy to give him some rope. If I reraise the villain pre, I likewise expect that to fold out his junk and narrow any continuing range to stronger hands, though not a lot is that far ahead of AK except AA/KK. Roughly flipping vs underpairs.

You’re right that there is enough potentially dead money in there pre to jam/squeeze. But meanwhile I expected the caller in the middle iirc to play pretty face-up postflop, especially 3-way, based on both his position and our history. If I checked, and the caller checked, this villain was likely to cbet his whole range—giving me a chance to win/bluffcatch, and forcing the caller out.

Happened to work out this time; probably not a result though that is replicable more than once in a blue moon.