KK out of the blinds

xt!

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Background:

Playing 5-10 NLHE late last night in a casino where it rarely runs.

About 8 PM the 5-10 got going and I turned down my seat because I was in a great 1-2 PLO that had more money on it than the players headed to the 5-10 were putting in play. Two hours later my 1-2 was a bust, the bad players had run up stacks gambling and left, I was stuck and at a bad table so I was patiently waiting to get on the 5-10 that I had turned down, then one of the biggest NLHE players you could hope to meet comes in and we start a feeder game short handed. Every hand was raised or 3 bet in a four handed game and I was in no mood to slow down when I was called up to the full main game 45 minutes later.

The lineup at the main game had:

1 seat: goodish, nittish, straightforward ABC player playing 3k. He thinks I am overly agro from playing 2-5 and doesnt ever give me credit for hands - ever.
2 seat: complete unknown playing 4k
3 seat: complete unknown playing 1500
4 seat: known as a huge degen gambler and action player playing 3k. I have maybe 10 hrs with him in smaller games and he always takes strange lines and tries trapping me in turn/river spots.
5 seat: complete unknown, but he makes a comment about how he keeps rebuying. Playing maybe 1k
6 seat: nearly unknown, I recognize him, and I remember thinking he knows what he is doing. Carries himself like a young pro - complete with ipad watching a movie. He's raising quite a bit and has put in a 3-bet. I just took a big pot off of him where he stacked off with QT on a QQ5 flop. Playing 800ish
7 seat: complete unknow, carrying himself like a pro. Called me down with KT on a 22T4Q board after I 3 bet from the blinds in my second hand. Playing 2k.
8 seat: me, playing about 3k. I've been at the table for 2 complete orbits, I've probably raised 4x and 3bet twice by now.
9 seat: action player. playing 3000. He's been playing about 36 hrs straight, but you'd never know it to look at him. Thinking and aggro. I know that he wants to outplay me in big pots - mostly because we are friends and have played together for a few yrs now, but also because he knows I am not afraid of big pots from OOP.

PF. Seat 1 limps UTG, seat 3 limps, 4 seat limps, seat 6 limps, I have KK in the SB and raise to 60.

My raise sizing was to induce a 3-bet and to keep the pot from getting too bloated if I am called by the deeper stacks. I figured the most likely 3-bettors would be the 9 seat and the 6 seat if it is called around to him. Easy 5 bet against either one. Note, I am not expecting many, if any, folds, but I want it to look like I am trying to get a fold. It must have worked bc the old man in the 1 seat laughed and said "you're tricks aren't going to work up here, nobody is afraid to call your raises here" or something along those lines as I get 5 callers. I make some wise-ass remark back at him but I dont recall what I said. The 9, 1, 3, 4, and 6 call pre.

Flop comes 47Jr and I lead out for 260. Seat 9 calls. All others fold. Turn comes a 9 and the 9 seat lifts his head back a tiny bit, which I interpreted as a "this is a good card for me" tell (from a ton of playing time with him.)

What should I do now? 47J9 board (I don't recall any suits being matched) What is my plan for the rest of the hand?

What do you think so far? Any feedback on bet sizing or thoughts?
 

DrStrange

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If hero trusts his read, things aren't going to go well. (well unless "I picked up a gut shot to go with a pair" is a good card in villain's book)

check/call small or check/fold.

Absent the read, I would try $500 (~60% pot)

DrStrange
 

xt!

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That could very easily be the case, doc. It's not a "I'd wager my stack on it" level of read other. These are guys who don't give away much, but it's something I noticed during the hand.
 

xt!

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okay, so I check and he bets $300. That really is a trivially small bet into the ~$900 pot. I have no idea what that bet size means here though. Any thoughts about what he may be holding here to call $50 more from the BB (could be any two, really) then call the 47J flop and bet the 9 turn? Any merit to a check raise here? If we call what are we thinking for the river?
 

DrStrange

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I think $500 bet/fold, though I could respect a check/call line too. (On a river brick.) Hero's hand is at the top of his range and I don't want villain to check behind with JT / J8 etc.


DrStrange
 

grandgnu

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Smells more like TJ to me, top pair with a gutshot and not giving you much credit. I still expect to be ahead here. Take whatever line gets you the most money from this particular villain, as you know his tendancies
 

Ben

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Range is pretty much 79 or any jack that he calls with pre IMO. I'd give a bit more weight to 79/J9 due to the tell and small bet possibly trying to induce a raise - could easily be JQ/JT/J8 though, and knows he is "supposed" to bet but doesn't really want to, so goes small with it. Smallish C/R (maybe $850) seems pretty good as we're unlikely to get further action from worse regardless and can deny him whatever drawing equity he may have (or fold comfortably if he ships.) If we just flat here all the river plans seem -ev.
 

xt!

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Almost all of my play with him is in plo, where he usually bets one word at a time "pot" so I really didn't know what to make of his bet size.

I figured j9 to be his most likely holding here, with any combo of 8's, 9's, t's, and j's as a close second. I didn't give enough thought to a c/r in the moment... so I called.

River 7. Wwyd?
 

grandgnu

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Almost all of my play with him is in plo, where he usually bets one word at a time "pot" so I really didn't know what to make of his bet size.

I figured j9 to be his most likely holding here, with any combo of 8's, 9's, t's, and j's as a close second. I didn't give enough thought to a c/r in the moment... so I called.

River 7. Wwyd?


Ok, $1500 in the pot I believe? The 7 is a great card for us, if Villian does hold J9 we just pulled ahead. Villian could also put us on AJ and think he's still got us beat.

I like a bet of $900-1100 here
 

Ben

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Nice card for us. Bet $750 targeting J9 or other J's (he's going to check back all those hands if we check.) He's not raising unless he filled up.
 

Chippy McChiperson

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It only really helps us if he had J9 or somehow 94. If we were behind any other hands on the turn we are still screwed.

Some people say bet/fold is a good option, but I prefer to check call. Checking could always induce a bluff or a thin value bet that we are ahead of, and you lose 100% of the hands you fold.
 

thorwilliam

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I can't see him having many, if any bluffs in this spot. He would probably fold gutshots and 7-9 on the flop with several players to act behind him. We basicly lose to 44, 99, jj, j-7 and the unlikely 77. I like a bet here since its unlikely that he has air given no flush draw on the flop and a lot of j-combos he might check back.
 
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grandgnu

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I can't see him having many, if any bluffs in this spot. He would probably fold gutshots and 7-9 on the flop with several players to act behind him. We basicly lose to 44, 99, jj, j-9 and the unlikely 77. I like a bet here since its unlikely that he has air given no flush draw on the flop and a lot of j-combos he might check back.

We don't lose to J9 in this spot, he'd have JJ99 and we'd have KK77
 

xt!

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So I guess checking the turn was optimal be if I bet it would have been 600ish, with a river shove... I don't think he calls that off with top/top... dunno
 
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