I Am Trash (5 Viewers)

[Taghkanic]

If you want to get your confidence back I recommend sticking to casino $1/3 Hold’em. As long as you stay disciplined it’s almost like stealing money.

In my last 8 sessions at Borgata since I’ve been tracking I average $62 and hour with an 88% win rate. At Encore Boston…even with double the rake of Borgata, I’m $88.15 an hour and a 60% win rate over the last 6 sessions.

I think it depends a great deal on the size and location of the casino. Borgata and Encore Boston are in highly-populated areas. Their poker rooms attract a lot more casual players, tourists, curiosity-seekers, and whales.

The casinos nearest to my rural area (all 1-2 hours away) are not like that. The 1/3 tables are full of old regs who sit nursing their one buy-n all day—rocks. If there is any action, it is typically from gamble-y short-stackers, who buy-in for the minimum, and wait to shove preflop with any pair or AK. But because they are short (~33BB or even less), these pots don't get very big.

There are no whales, no tourists, and few casuals playing 1/3 at a place like Rivers Schenectady, an hour from me... The total amount of money sitting on your typical 1/3 table is very small, comparatively speaking; just not worth my driving an hour each way for. There are home games closer by, where the action is much livelier and players are regularly rebuying for the max; so I don't bother much with small casino 1/3 games, which are raked beyond belief, except (say) if I’m killing time waiting for a big tournament to start.

I’m also not sure whether it is correct to assume that at places like Borgata and Encore that 2/5 is significantly harder than 1/3. You may get a few better players, but there also is a lot more money to be made. If one is at $90/hour at 1/3 one ought to be able to do $150/hour at 2/5.

 

[doublebooyah85]

FWIW, going back to low stakes NLHE seems a lot easier to play after so much limit and mixed games.

Agree with this, my Holdem cash game has seemed to improve after playing exclusively plo and mixed games the last 2 years, then again, it’s all relative and such a small sample size tbh. But I feel more confident and I’m enjoying Holdem more again.

 

[Old State]

I think it depends a great deal on the size and location of the casino. Borgata and Encore Boston are in highly-populated areas. Their poker rooms attract a lot more casual players, tourists, curiosity-seekers, and whales.

The casinos nearest to my rural area (all 1-2 hours away) are not like that. The 1/3 tables are full of old regs who sit nursing their one buy-n all day—rocks. If there is any action, it is typically from gamble-y short-stackers, who buy-in for the minimum, and wait to shove preflop with any pair or AK. But because they are short (~33BB or even less), these pots don't get very big.

There are no whales, no tourists, and few casuals playing 1/3 at a place like Rivers Schenectady, an hour from me... The total amount of money sitting on your typical 1/3 table is very small, comparatively speaking; just not worth my driving an hour each way for. There are home games closer by, where the action is much livelier and players are regularly rebuying for the max; so I don't bother much with small casino 1/3 games, which are raked beyond belief, except (say) if I’m killing time waiting for a big tournament to start.

I’m also not sure whether it is correct to assume that at places like Borgata and Encore that 2/5 is significantly harder than 1/3. You may get a few better players, but there also is a lot more money to be made. If one is at $90/hour at 1/3 one ought to be able to do $150/hour at 2/5.

Well luckily for me I’m in a great location to play in larger casino games.

As for $1/3 and $2/5 at say Borgata, the main difference is the age of the players being younger than 1/3 and more aggressive…or even reckless, even if they aren’t that much better. On the weekends there are younger players at 1/3 but they are more risk adverse I’ve noticed. But during the week it’s mostly retired guys and blue collar types off from work. They hemorrhage money and can’t get off of top pair no matter what the board looks like. Lots of money to be made with little risk

$2/5 is always younger players no matter wear play. Also more likely to be drinking and loud. The bad players are not passive like the 1/3 game but far more likely to get their stack in at any point. The variance is higher and I don’t think the reward outweighs the risk.

BTW, the $1/3 games in AC are largely regulars that know every dealer and waitress

 

[Taghkanic]

$2/5 is always younger players [than 1/3] no matter wear play. Also more likely to be drinking and loud. The bad players are not passive like the 1/3 game but far more likely to get their stack in at any point.

This actually sounds like a good argument for playing 2/5...

Young, drunk aggressive players willing to get it all/in light? That seems very exploitable, at a more frequent rate than waiting for safe conditions at 1/3.

If the 1/3 strategy is "wait to make two pair+ to get paid by top pair," sure, I can see that happening... maybe once every 90 minutes if things are right. But also if you are playing against people who never adjust.

In my experience, even older, non-thinking players stuck in their ways are able to notice eventually who "always has it," and to adjust by not paying off so easily. For the strategy to work long-term, it needs a rotating player pool that doesn't know you are never bluffing the turn or river.

I've not had a losing session at 2/5 since June. That includes a few small wins but also several huge ones. Most recently while killing time at an MGM property waiting for my Jeep to get fixed... In for $850 out for $1,600+ in 4.5 hours.

Doesn't mean I can't have a bad September; such is variance. The goal is to get ahead of it long-term.

Yes, moving up in stakes may require a little more stomach for swings, and a willingness to top off/rebuy to smooth out variance and get back in the black. And 2/5 is hardly nosebleed stakes.

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TL;DR: Looser and more aggressive players are an opportunity, not something to dodge.

 

[Old State]

This actually sounds like a good argument for playing 2/5...

Young, drunk aggressive players willing to get it all/in light? That seems very exploitable, at a more frequent rate than waiting for safe conditions at 1/3.

If the 1/3 strategy is "wait to make two pair+ to get paid by top pair," sure, I can see that happening... maybe once every 90 minutes if things are right. But also if you are playing against people who never adjust.

In my experience, even older, non-thinking players stuck in their ways are able to notice eventually who "always has it," and to adjust by not paying off so easily. For the strategy to work long-term, it needs a rotating player pool that doesn't know you are never bluffing the turn or river.

I've not had a losing session at 2/5 since June. That includes a few small wins but also several huge ones. Most recently while killing time at an MGM property waiting for my Jeep to get fixed... In for $850 out for $1,600+ in 4.5 hours.

Doesn't mean I can't have a bad September; such is variance. The goal is to get ahead of it long-term.

Yes, moving up in stakes may require a little more stomach for swings, and a willingness to top off/rebuy to smooth out variance and get back in the black. And 2/5 is hardly nosebleed stakes.

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TL;DR: Looser and more aggressive players are an opportunity, not something to dodge.

Didn’t say it was nose bleed…but why risk more for basically the same profit in total and significantly more as a multiple of your initial buy in. You doubled your money in a big win. At $1/3 I often triple it or more. Recently a 4.5 hour session at Borgata I was in for $300 and out for $1200.

The $2/5 tables are always the rowdiest and chaotic . They are the loudest and with the most arguments and floor calls. Always seems to be some bad beat argument. The 1/3 game is far more predictable and exploitable.

Looser passive players are even better people to target than LAGs

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Buncha jerks. @KingWithTheAxe cleaned up, tripled his money on us. GG

 

[Taghkanic]

You doubled your money in a big win.

The recent MGM result I cited was not one of the “big wins” I mentioned. More like average. The session before (private home game) I was in for $500 and out for $2600—that was more of a big one.

Again: I don't see how your 1/3 exploit strategy is sustainable, except in the precise conditions mentioned: If you are unknown to the other players.

If instead your villains have played many hands with you where they called river bets from you and lost, presumably at some point they are not going to keep calling you light.

Are you playing against different people every time at Borgata? (My recollection is that you said that it is mostly regs but maybe I misunderstood.)

In any case, I still think we have different ideas of risk and profitability. A “predictable” game may be profitable for a while—until the regs predictably wise up... In my experience, a looser and “rowdier” one is more likely to be juicier in the long-term. What I am hearing is that you are more concerned about limiting short-term variance than the ability to win more over time, once the variance smooths out.

On top of everything, casino rake at 1/2 and 1/3 tends to be brutal if hands are regularly going post flop. Not great at 2/5 either, but more beatable.

 

[Old State]

Again: I don't see how your 1/3 exploit strategy is sustainable, except in the precise conditions mentioned: If you are unknown to the other players.

If instead your villains have played many hands with you where they called river bets from you and lost, presumably at some point they are not going to keep calling you light.

Are you playing against different people every time at Borgata? (My recollection is that you said that it is mostly regs but maybe I misunderstood.)

Borgata is one of the biggest poker rooms in the US. There are lots of regulars there….but there are often also a hundred or more people playing. Everytime I go I seem to recognize one person at the table or in the room but the rest of the table is unknown.

Remember …I’m playing casino poker mostly in AC…not small card rooms in a random town. Even when I’m in Boston for work and play at Encore the poker room is usually packed with maybe 15 tables or more going in the middle of a weekday.

I pulled these pics online but you are not going to be sitting at a table full of the same players in a room like this. The first pic doesn’t show about 20% of the room too

 

[Taghkanic]

Borgata is one of the biggest poker rooms in the US. There are lots of regulars there….but there are often also a hundred or more people playing. Everytime I go I seem to recognize one person at the table or in the room but the rest of the table is unknown.

Remember …I’m playing casino poker mostly in AC…not small card rooms in a random town. Even when I’m in Boston for work and play at Encore the poker room is usually packed with maybe 15 tables or more going in the middle of a weekday.

I pulled these pics online but you are not going to be sitting at a table full of the same players in a room like this. The first pic doesn’t show about 20% of the room too

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That makes more sense. At the smaller casinos near me the 1/3 tables are full of the same old rocks plus a handful of shortstackers. More to be made at 2/5 and the rake is generally lighter. But I stick mainly to private games because these casinos are (a) not that exciting and (b) not that close on top of the bad action. I go pretty much only for larger tournaments.