Cash Game How to handle an out of rotation hand?

Discussion in 'Tournaments and Cash Games' started by Joe Harris, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Aug 11, 2017 at 9:58 PM
    #1
    Joe Harris

    Joe Harris Member

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    I'm finally putting together a regular game here in Vermont. It is my goal to never again host a cash game of pure Hold 'em. For this first event, I intend to accomplish this by inserting a hand of O8 after each round of hold 'em. Hopefully that exposure will eventually result in regularly hosting a nice relaxing 8-game, but one step at a time.

    I've never hosted or played in a game with an out of rotation hand, so i'm looking for feedback on the best way to do it.

    Obviously, the button should be paused, but how to handle who deals? The deal should probably still rotate - do I need a "bonus game button" to slowly make its way around the table?

    Additionally, I would like this to be an ante hand. The hold'em rounds will probably have two quarter blinds (this time), but I want the O8 hand to start with more chips in the middle. I'm thinking each player should ante a quarter to accomplish this. Is there anything about this structure that would concern you as a player?

    Any other feedback?
     
  2. Aug 11, 2017 at 10:42 PM
    #2
    CraigT78

    CraigT78 Member

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    How about an orbit of each instead of changing every hand? I imagine I would prefer to play 6-9 hands of one game and swap than to do it every other hand.

    Edit - I misread the OP - one round of NLHE then one hand of PLO? I guess I'd pause the button, but would probably still prefer an orbit of each.
     
  3. Aug 11, 2017 at 10:44 PM
    #3
    moose

    moose Member

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    Yeah give them an orbit to get used to the game or else they won't learn a thing. Or start with lazy pineapple first.
     
  4. Aug 11, 2017 at 10:50 PM
    #4
    slisk250

    slisk250 Member

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    I'd go straight PLO before introducing a split pot game with a low. Agree with Craig
     
  5. Aug 11, 2017 at 10:56 PM
    #5
    Phantom

    Phantom Member

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    We have started playing HE and PLO and the crew immediately went for the PLO. Now HE seems a little 'boring'. :)
     
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  6. Aug 11, 2017 at 10:59 PM
    #6
    rjbf65

    rjbf65 Member

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    A Holdem game I've played in had a timer that would go off every 15 minutes. Whoever had the button when the timer rang got to choose a game for one hand only.

    I think the idea was that it would get more variety going in our game. But one different game for one hand every 15 minutes doesn't cut it. Full orbits would be better to get players accustomed new games and to appreciate them.
     
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  7. Aug 11, 2017 at 11:39 PM
    #7
    Joe Harris

    Joe Harris Member

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    I too would prefer rounds of each game. However, I don't know these players well. I'm starting a new home game in a new state where I know almost nobody.

    Several of them were hesitant to any game that isn't hold 'em. Maybe I can start the night with the single Omaha hand and suggest we move to rounds of each after an hour or so.

    That is a good point. I hadn't considered it because I prefer O8, but it would be easier to manage the game with new players if pots aren't being split. Hmm...
     
  8. Aug 12, 2017 at 1:12 AM
    #8
    Rhodeman77

    Rhodeman77 Member

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    I would suggest play an hour of Hold'em then do a full orbit of PLO then another hour of Hold'em.

    Towards the end of the night when itbus the final 4-6 players they will most likely only want to play PLO.
     
  9. Aug 12, 2017 at 1:25 AM
    #9
    BGinGA

    BGinGA Tourney Director

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    Try two orbits of Hold'em followed by one orbit of PLO, then repeat. You really need to play an entire orbit of PLO, since position is so important -- and new players need exposure to more than an occasional single hand to really learn anything about the game. The most involuntary PLO exposure anybody will face is 1-1/2 big blinds per three orbits.

    Several cash games I've been involved with used this approach at first to wean players off NLHE (some went with three NL orbits and one PLO). They eventually evolved into different formats: two orbits NLHE and one orbit Dealer's Choice, alternating orbits of NLHE/PLO, and alternating orbits of NLHE, Crazy Pineapple, PLO, and PLO8.
     
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  10. Aug 12, 2017 at 1:27 AM
    #10
    ekricket

    ekricket Member

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    The ones that "hate PLO" or "don't understand it" will simply sit out the one hand. They will take this opportunity to go to the bathroom or get another beer - leaving the table and causing disruptions. That's why an orbit is better.
     
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  11. Aug 12, 2017 at 9:04 AM
    #11
    upNdown

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    Or they'll flop a straight and lose their stack.
    @Joe Harris I can totally appreciate you wanting to play more than just hold em. But new game, new friends, be careful you don't force things tooo much and lose players.
     
  12. Aug 12, 2017 at 9:28 AM
    #12
    Rhodeman77

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    If losing too much money in PLO for the new players is real fear put a cap on the amount that can be bet each street or play limit Omaha instead of PLO. I would at least lower the blinds if you do stick with PLO. If you play $1/2 Hold'em. Play$1/1 PLO or if you have 25c chips play 25c/50c for the PLO round.

    PLO plays so much bigger than Hold'em that playing it at the same stakes with new players may turn them off when the pots blow up so fast and they lose all their money much faster!
     
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  13. Aug 12, 2017 at 1:25 PM
    #13
    AWenger

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    I've played in a game where we did this (with one hand of PLO a round instead of O8), and it worked out fine. What we did was we had another different button or marker that we rotated to the next player, and once the main button got back to that player, that was the PLO hand, with that player as the button. The main button didn't pause -- it kept going around. Then after the PLO hand, the PLO marker moved to the next person. For the second marker, we typically used a small missed blind lammer, but it could be another chip, a bounty chip, or some other sort of trinket or little toy - one game had a Nemo fish toy from the animated movie.

    The PLO marker can move counterclockwise or clockwise. Moving it counterclockwise, you actually get slightly more PLO hands in: at an 8 handed table, there would be 7 hands of NL, followed by 1 hand of PLO [EDIT - correction, it ends up being 6 hands of NL followed by 1 hand of PLO if an 8 handed table]. Moving it clockwise, the 2 buttons move together after the PLO hand, and then it's NL until the main button gets back to the PLO marker - so at an 8 player table, it's 8 hands of NL, followed by 1 hand of PLO.

    For using antes for the O8 hand, I guess it depends on your game -- if you have the same 8 players that show up and all play in the same seats for several hours, then I'd say it shouldn't matter to the players -- after 8 or 10 full orbits, it all equals out. But if your game has players who are late arrivals, early cash-outs, changing seats, etc. it may work better to just use the same blinds for NL and O8.

    Good luck. Hope it works out for you. I think this is a good way to introduce another game besides NL. Hopefully some of your players like it, and they then ask for 1 round of O8 for every round or 2 of NL.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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  14. Aug 12, 2017 at 2:34 PM
    #14
    ekricket

    ekricket Member

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    I started a weekly PLO game for a subset of our regulars a few years back and it's more popular now than the HE game for some.

    I just made I PLO learning experience, for the first two weeks we didn't use a timer, just bumped the blinds every two rotations. We showed hands at showdowns, kept folded starting hands aside, etc. and talked about what we saw, why we did some thing, what we had read, etc. We didn't do it every hand to keep things moving, but we encouraged questions and discussion. After two weeks we just played and never looked back. We keep it to a single table and occasionally someone will hold a mucked hand aside to ask about something or discuss a situation, but we are much better players now, although with PLO you never learn it all.
     
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  15. Aug 12, 2017 at 4:37 PM
    #15
    brains613

    brains613 Member

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    Another suggestion while introducing players to PLO: Reduce the blinds. A LOT. Newer players will be more inclined to make pot-sized bets, not realizing that the game plays bigger. (At least in my experience.)

    While playing holdem at 1/2, I'd play PLO at .25/.50, or even .25/.25 with players unaccustomed to the game.