Cash Game How I Bank at a Home Game in an Increasingly Cashless Society (1 Viewer)

The traditional way to bank is to trade chips for cash. Players hand the banker cash to receive chips. When a player is ready to cash out, he hands his chips back to the banker for cash. Simple concept.

A pure cashless home game is also relatively simple. Write down everyone's buy-in and rebuys on a ledger. At the end of the game, count everyone's stacks to calculate everyone's wins and losses. If all the positive and negative numbers add up to zero, that means the math was done correctly. All the losing players pay the biggest winner their net loss and the other winners request their profit from the biggest winner. All transactions are electronic.

My player pool has mixed opinions about cash. Some players have been gambling for decades and are used to the idea of bringing cash to a poker night. Others will find it odd that physical cash is still required for a social gathering when there are dozens of cashless payment methods.

If you're a cash only home poker host and have no intention of trying something new, please avert your eyes. The following may shock you ;)


My Hybrid Banking System

I've developed a hybrid banking system to accommodate everyone. Players either buy chips with cash up front or play on credit. However, all debts must be settled before the player walks out the door. Venmo, Zelle, PaypalFF, CashApp, Apple Pay, paper checks, crypto, or whatever the banker deems acceptable is fine.

Pretend this is a bar: either pay for your drink instantly or open a tab and pay at the end.

To clarify, cash up front is still the only acceptable form of payment for chips. If a player wants to Venmo me for a buy-in, I politely tell him I'll write down how much he wants in a ledger and figure it out later. This will minimize the number of electronic transactions.

I'll use "Venmo" in my examples, but it can be substituted with any cashless transaction method.

Cash Buy-In
  1. Player announces he wants to buy in
  2. Banker repeats the announcement to the entire table
  3. Accept the cash
  4. Place cash in a temporary location (for me, on the rail in front of me underneath a notepad)
  5. Place new chips in front of player for two-party visual verification (ask for 3rd person if preferred)
  6. Move cash from temporary location to where you normally keep the rest of everyone's cash (for me, front right pants pocket)
Cashless Buy-In
  1. Player announces he wants to buy in
  2. Banker repeats the announcement to the entire table
  3. Write down Name and Amount
  4. Place new chips in front of player for two-party visual verification (ask for 3rd person if preferred)
  5. Add check mark
It's a good habit to do these steps in order. Speed and urgency isn't important since purchased chips, even if they have not arrived yet, may play at the start of the next hand. If you're in the middle of a hand, finish your hand. Don't let anyone try to rush you. Be consistent with following the procedures to avoid making mistakes.

For example, if I got distracted and came back to my seat to see cash in front of me, that means I'm in the middle of step 4 or 5 of the Cash Buy-In procedure.

I'm not claiming these are the best procedures; these are simply my procedures. Whatever procedure you choose, ensure they're consistent and simple enough to do, even when inebriated.


How to Handle Players Leaving Early

Credit players leave with their profit (otherwise the juice starts five points a week on Mike)

(chip stack) - (buyin) = profit

Profit can be provided in cash. If the player prefers cashless, the banker will Venmo the profit amount to the player and write down a negative number next to the banker's name in the ledger. The negative number means the poker bank owes that amount to the banker's personal wallet.

Credit players leaving early with a loss need to pay immediately. Venmo the banker and the banker will write down a positive number next to the banker's name in the ledger. The positive number means the banker's personal wallet owes that amount to the poker bank.

In other words, credit player leaving early with a profit:
stack - buyin = get cash OR venmo & -# me

Credit player leaving early with a loss:
buyin - stack = venmo me; +# me


How to End the Game

Cash out time at the end of the game is worrisome for all hosts. The slowest, but most secure, procedure is for the banker to count everyone's chip stack. For me, a few minutes before the end of the game, I count the cash so I know how much the total number of chips on the table should add up to. At the end of the game, everyone counts their own stack and shouts out how much they think they're owed. This step doesn't take too long because players normally start counting before the last hand is over, especially after they've already folded. I fill out the following chart:

PlayerTotal CreditChip StackWin/Loss
Ariel
Bob
Charlie
David
Eric
Frank
George
etc etc etc

Handy reference to verify the math
Total Cash + Sum of Total Credit = Total chips in play
Sum of Chip Stack = Total chips in play
Sum of Win/Loss = Total Cash

If the math is correct, everyone gets paid at the same time. If it's off, I say it's wrong and to recount, but I don't tell them how much it's off by in case someone wants to game the system. If there's really one or two players who can't count correctly, they get help from me or a neighboring player (with a mandatory healthy dose of friendly needling, of course).

Whether or not there's enough cash to pay everyone depends on where your players are on the cash/cashless spectrum. If there isn't enough cash left, you can figure out as a group who wants the cash. For example, you can pay the diehard cash-only players in cash first. My crew generally does not have a preference between receiving cash or cashless, but most people do not want to receive a massive stack of small denomination bills.

Most of the time, the biggest winner can be the central hub for all the electronic transfers. All the losing players pay the biggest winner their net losses and the other winners request their net winnings from the biggest winner. This minimizes* the number of transactions and amount transferred while keeping it simple to understand.
*There's actually an algorithm to truly minimize the number of transactions and amount transferred and can even discourage transactions between players who aren't very familiar with each other, but it requires complex math that no one wants to do at the end of a long poker session.

By the way, I use the word "request" because that's what Venmo calls it, but essentially it's sending a payment request or an invoice that's due upon receipt. It's less troublesome for the biggest winner to simply receive payment from losing players and tapping the "accept" button from the other players.

The banker can be the central hub if the biggest winner isn't comfortable with the role. The losing players can pay the banker and winning players can request payment from the banker.


Optional Task

I like to verify the bank once an hour. I know the total value of the chips I brought out and I would count the remaining chips in my chip case to see how much did not make it onto the table yet.

(Total chips) - (remaining chips in case) = (chips on the poker table)

Then I will count the cash and add up all the credit extended. If this number matches the total value of chips on the table, then the bank is correct.

Disclaimer: I've only read the OP, there's no time for me ATM to read responses.

This all seems overly complicated. I think the mistake is in this:
All the losing players pay the biggest winner their net loss and the other winners request their profit from the biggest winner. All transactions are electronic.
Not only does it complicate mixed payment methods, it also assumes everyone leaves at the same time (which is almost never the case for cash games IME)

If you change this to: All losers pay the bank (i.e., you) and the bank pays all winners, then the ledger approach will work regardless of payment method.

That's what I do. If someone pays in cash, I accept the cash and mark the ledger as 'Settled', same as if they pay electronically, or by leaving their half full bottle of whiskey, or any other way. E.g., small winners will often just say "we're good" and I'll mark the ledger as settled without payment.

My steps:

1. Buy-in or top-up: Give the player chips, strikethrough the old amount on the ledger, write the new total.

2. Cashout: Count chips, then settle and tick the ledger as settled

I that's required is a pen and a paper (preferably a printout of my template, but even a blank works)
 
@Mr Winberg both of your points were addressed in the OP ;)

How to Handle Players Leaving Early” and “The banker can be the central hub if the biggest winner isn't comfortable with the role”
 
If I’m banking and drinking, I sure as shit ain’t writing stuff down and I’m absofuckinglutely not trying to reverse engineer who paid what based on my Venmo. You take cash you give chips what’s weird or hard about that. The casino does the exact same thing.
 
This was a interesting read. Thanks or your tips!

In college I had a friend that put together something like this, I can say from that experience this is not as complicated as it looks and is effective for collecting cash when people owe different amounts.
 
If I’m banking and drinking, I sure as shit ain’t writing stuff down and I’m absofuckinglutely not trying to reverse engineer who paid what based on my Venmo. You take cash you give chips what’s weird or hard about that. The casino does the exact same thing.
Reverse engineer? The boomer is showing lol, it tells me exactly what the transactions were, no engineering or math necessary.
 
This type of mindset cracks me up. Why such strong feelings against anything not cash? Gambler/bankroll mindset? Just stuck in the way its always been done? Mistrust of apps? bad eyesight?


Yeah very similar here. Cash is gas money for them.
Cash isn’t just King, it is the undisputed benevolent monarch. For all the reasons bergs lists above. Works for casinos all day long. If you have credit at the casino, they can do that. I’ll never offer credit period unless it’s a player who is a personal friend and got smoked. Don’t like cash? What the hell is wrong with you. There is a reason the WSOP puts all that cash on the table in the main events heads up. I suppose next you want to get rid of chips?

I don’t care to do anything for my players other than take your cash and give you chips. I’m there to play and have fun, not be an accountant for those stuck in their Apple wallet.

Considering your insults about eyesight or whatever….why? Because I make the rules. Won’t change because there is no reason to.
 
Cash isn’t just King, it is the undisputed benevolent monarch. For all the reasons bergs lists above. Works for casinos all day long. If you have credit at the casino, they can do that. I’ll never offer credit period unless it’s a player who is a personal friend and got smoked. Don’t like cash? What the hell is wrong with you. There is a reason the WSOP puts all that cash on the table in the main events heads up. I suppose next you want to get rid of chips?

I don’t care to do anything for my players other than take your cash and give you chips. I’m there to play and have fun, not be an accountant for those stuck in their Apple wallet.

Considering your insults about eyesight or whatever….why? Because I make the rules. Won’t change because there is no reason to.
If that "bad eyesight" question is considered an insult, I dont know what to tell you bud, thats teflon. Little joke.

I've never said I don't like cash, I just think many of the arguments against cash-less do not hold water. Yes, WSOP puts millions on the table lol, looks amazing, I love it. Yes, I want to get rid of chips, please keep making up strawmen arguments, its so much fun.

I didnt mention credit and dont offer credit. Not sure why you'd bring that into this.

No one is asking you to change your rules, unsure of why you've taken this so personally. You come into a thread about cashless banking and seem indignant that we're talking about cashless banking lol.
 
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If that "bad eyesight" question is considered an insult, I dont know what to tell you bud, thats teflon. Little joke.

I've never said I don't like cash, I just think many of the arguments against cash-less do not hold water. Yes, WSOP puts millions on the table lol, looks amazing, I love it. Yes, I want to get rid of chips, please keep making up strawmen arguments, its so much fun.

I didnt mention credit and dont offer credit. Not sure why you'd bring that into this.

No one is asking you to change your rules, unsure of why you've taken this so personally.
The arguments for cash are clear and easy. Your reply to me came off snippy. Like a young whipper snapper!

Actually you are trying to change folks rules. You don’t see it our way…fine. Play on line or host your cashless game.
 
The arguments for cash are clear and easy. Your reply to me came off snippy. Like a young whipper snapper!

Actually you are trying to change folks rules. You don’t see it our way…fine. Play on line or host your cashless game.
Ha, alright whatever works, love you. Sorry about that, just good natured.

I'm really not trying to change any rules, I am guilty of wanting people to consider this point of view/way of doing things, absolutely, but I thought that was the purpose of the thread, to debunk how complicated it is. I will continue to host my cashless game, yes, but the permission is appreciated!
 
A good host / banker never has this problem.

Anyone who has ever worked a traditional cash register knows routines for avoiding claims like “I gave you $100 not $20.” This becomes second nature and takes very little time.

Cash that is handed to me never goes into the box until all the chips have been counted twice by me and verified by the player.

Bills presented are set aside the chips I’m counting, preferably with a card protector or other paperweight holding the money down, in full view of the purchaser and other players.

If more than one bill is presented, the money gets counted at least twice, in view of the player and others, preferably at both the start and end of the handoff.

It doesn’t get commingled with any funds until the transaction is fully checked and complete.
We use one of those black, clampy, paper clips. Money counted, chips counted, money clipped (all together) and in a vessel that is attached to our table light directly in front of the banker. All reserve/rebuy chips sit in racks behind the host/dealer.

Our banker (soon to be @ razz and soon to be my son-in-law) has been flawless. I think he knows dad is on the hook if the bank is short. Also, as host, I cash out last.
 
I like the paperless theory as in no ledger. I explained how we do it in a post somewhere up there ^^^^^^.

I think I learned it from growing up watching MASH, the Odd Couple, and Maverick.
 
Gonna laugh my nuts off when he gets audited by the IRS for having massive amounts of F&F transactions at high dollar amounts.
 
I think for a home game there are several downsides to cash that aren't the case at a casino:
  • Getting more cash -- do you have an ATM at home? No? Well then how are people supposed to get more cash? Even at a casino a lot of people only bring one buy-in, not expecting to lose it but will go to an ATM for more cash. If someone is out of cash, there will be a new player to sit down so it's not a big deal if someone runs into an ATM limit, but at a home game a player without cash is out of the game and now you're forced to continue short-handed.
  • Making change -- again, at a casino you'll have a cashier's cage with enough change for everyone, but at a home there's a non-zero chance you run out of change to pay out everyone evenly. If you keep the bank stocked up, that's extra work for the organizer
  • Robberies -- do you have full-time security at home? Games with a lot of cash on hand have to face the risk of getting robbed if people know there's a game going on. This is a non-zero risk if you're dealing with any substantial amount of money. Also if people don't have a safe place to store their cash during the workday, it makes it less likely they will join your game after on a weeknight after work (and harder to recruit a player for an open seat seat day-of).
Obviously it depends on the players in the game, but I think there are a lot of benefits to having the game support cashless payments. The app I built makes it easier to bridge the gap and keep the bank sane, but there are many approaches to making it easy :)
I want to agree with you, but...
  • Getting more cash -- Needing more cash is truly a degenerate problem. Sure, casinos have ATM's, but casinos thrive on degenerate gamblers - preferably gamblers with a problem. Home games lean more social. I know few people that would take that level of advantage of a friend with a problem.
  • Making change -- I started my home game over 15 years ago, and I went to the bank once to make sure we had enough cash on hand. It has gotten low over the years, but occasionally someone will buy-in with small bills and I can sit on them until they are actually needed. I still haven't gone back to the bank to get more change.
  • Robberies -- This is fair. One could use this excuse to never carry cash. You may as well Uber everywhere, because your chanced of being carjacked are even greater than that of having your home game robbed. Yes, admittedly the chance isn't zero... but then again, your chances of being robbed by a bunny are low
  • R.220805f8ae040262b0032d1cc4ce985f
...but not zero
 
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This is going to be my first hosted game in a very long time and we are playing micro stakes as well so maybe I will change my tune after but I have lots of change to cash people out.

Ah, see, as a basically cashless millennial who pretty much exclusively uses electronic transactions (unless I’m in a poker room, lol), I don’t have spare change anywhere. So it’s actually a chore for me to go the bank to get rolls of coins to stock the bank, for example.
 
Ah, see, as a basically cashless millennial who pretty much exclusively uses electronic transactions (unless I’m in a poker room, lol), I don’t have spare change anywhere. So it’s actually a chore for me to go the bank to get rolls of coins to stock the bank, for example.
As a Boomer I find that backstory lacking.
 
This is going to be my first hosted game in a very long time and we are playing micro stakes as well so maybe I will change my tune after but I have lots of change to cash people out.
What is “lots of people”? I would just call it hosting.
 
Ah, see, as a basically cashless millennial who pretty much exclusively uses electronic transactions (unless I’m in a poker room, lol), I don’t have spare change anywhere. So it’s actually a chore for me to go the bank to get rolls of coins to stock the bank, for example.
Even though I have pitched 5¢/10¢ games many times over the years, I have never handed out change at the end of the night. I usually cash out whole dollars and offer to race off the odd change. Each player gets 1 card per nickel, the Highest of every 20 cards gets the dollar. If you only have $1, you can pitch one card to each nickel, and then throw a flop, turn, and river for even more excitement - highest hand scoops.

What actually happens, is everybody says "keep it, you hosted".

Either way, it's not a hassle. One last round of gambol, or the host finishes up a buck. Don't over-think the problem.
 
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Even though I have pitched 5¢/10¢ games many times over the years, I have never handed out change at the end of the night. I usually cash out whole dollars and offer to race off the odd change. Each player gets 1 card per nickel, for every Highest of 20 cards gets the dollar. If you only have $1, you can pitch one card to each nickel, and then throw a flop turn and river for even more excitement, highest hand scoops.

What actually happens, is everybody says "keep it, you hosted".

Either way, it's not a hassle. One last round of gambol, or the host finishes up a buck. Don't over-think the problem.
Change to the house. Nobody has an issue with it since I have water, plumbing, and several thousand dollars in equipment.

Nobody ever gets stuck for more than .90. Or borrow a dime or whatever from somebody else cashing out and make it an even dollar and show the room how cheap you are. Either way the house is fine with it.
 
Change to the house. Nobody has an issue with it since I have water, plumbing, and several thousand dollars in equipment.

Nobody ever gets stuck for more than .90. Or borrow a dime or whatever from somebody else cashing out and make it an even dollar and show the room how cheap you are. Either way the house is fine with it.
I have no issue with this. It's how is should be.

However, I still remember a time when I was poor. 90¢ to you might be like $90 to someone else. I never assume that a player doesn't need the money. Surely, all the money that goes to the house doesn't even scratch the cost of hosting, so it's not really helping the host out. So I'm happy to "let it ride", or let my players be nice and donate it to me.

But paying in actual change? Nah, bro (that's how these young kids talk).

However, is a host is doing cashless, I guess that it's not really "paying change" and you might as pay to the penny.
 
I have no issue with this. It's how is should be.

However, I still remember a time when I was poor. 90¢ to you might be like $90 to someone else. I never assume that a player doesn't need the money. Surely, all the money that goes to the house doesn't even scratch the cost of hosting, so it's not really helping the host out. So I'm happy to "let it ride", or let my players be nice and donate it to me.

But paying in actual change? Nah, bro (that's how these young kids talk).

However, is a host is doing cashless, I guess that it's not really "paying change" and you might as pay to the penny.
I’m sorry… If someone is sweating even .90 they shouldn’t be playing poker. That’s why if another player wants to round them up go for it.

It’s cash here. Always has been and always will be.
 
I’m sorry… If someone is sweating even .90 they shouldn’t be playing poker. That’s why if another player wants to round them up go for it.

It’s cash here. Always has been and always will be.
What do you mean “let it ride”? You’re adding to it to round them up? Yeah no thanks
 

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