How does TRADE at PCF works? (2 Viewers)

[Dr_Dan11]

Sorry in advance for the noob question and maybe this has been asked before. Say I own expensive chip A, and I trade with another member who owns expensive chip B. So I send to him my expensive chip A, and then days later when I open the box with expensive chip B, it is a Monte Carlo or something. Other than meeting in person, or maybe having some sort of trusted middleman, how does it work here? Is it all a matter of trust and user ratings?

 

[RocAFella1]

Pretty much. If it's a trade of high value then you could consider a trusted middleman as escrow.

 

[JMC9389]

The foundation of this hobby is mutual trust. One can definitely agree to trade a high value set for high value set and do a bait and switch, but why risk the potential mail fraud charges?

If you're a buyer and you suspect the seller isn't totally above board, request that they insure the package for the amount paid as well as detailed photos (date included) of what you're buying. If something goes screwy (package lost in transit or shows up empty), you're not out the money and the seller should do the right thing and make you whole once the claim gets paid. If a bait and switch scenario happens, you go to the USPS inspector general (if shipped via USPS) and file a mail fraud claim. They take that very seriously.

I don't say anything to scare you as mostly everyone active here is a good egg and can be trusted. Look at feedback if you're unsure.

Edit to add: I'm a big proponent of insurance both as a buyer and a seller if any purchases are in the four figures and above. If I'm selling, I mandate the buyer to purchase the insurance or I include it in the purchase price. Same thing if I'm buying. Ultimately, the seller/shipper is responsible for filing a lost mail/insurance claim if something goes amiss in transit. It's good practice as protection for the both of you to protect the investment.

I would encourage insurance for any purchase that costs any more than you're not ok woth eating the cost of.

 

[Highli99]

If you don't know the person or they lack history, an escrow is the way to go. I'm sure there are trusted members to assist. The cost is merely extra shipping. If local you can meet in person.

 

[Tonystark137]

Like @JMC9389 said it's mutual trust. You send chip A and received chip b. I traded and sold four digits in chips to users without pictures before. (Not recommended) but if it is someone you have dealt with before or has a good review/ feedback. Shouldn't be a big issue. Insurance recommended if it's a significant amount.

 

[chippitydoodah]

I just tell everyone I buy & trade with that my job is Deputy Postmaster General and so far I've only sent 230 people to jail for mail fraud

 

[Machine]

This community is different from most other online communities, and the underlying reason is not apparent.

It's like Fight Club in that no one talks about it, but once you've stumbled through the rabbit hole, you'll never want to lose your pass through the looking glass.

Most members who would invest in high-level sets that would trade them already trust the member they would trade with. IYKYK

If I get ban for this post or it is removed you'll know why no one talks about it!!!

 

[Dr_Dan11]

The foundation of this hobby is mutual trust. One can definitely agree to trade a high value set for high value set and do a bait and switch, but why risk the potential mail fraud charges?

If you're a buyer and you suspect the seller isn't totally above board, request that they insure the package for the amount paid as well as detailed photos (date included) of what you're buying. If something goes screwy (package lost in transit or shows up empty), you're not out the money and the seller should do the right thing and make you whole once the claim gets paid. If a bait and switch scenario happens, you go to the USPS inspector general (if shipped via USPS) and file a mail fraud claim. They take that very seriously.

I don't say anything to scare you as mostly everyone active here is a good egg and can be trusted. Look at feedback if you're unsure.

Edit to add: I'm a big proponent of insurance both as a buyer and a seller if any purchases are in the four figures and above. If I'm selling, I mandate the buyer to purchase the insurance or I include it in the purchase price. Same thing if I'm buying. Ultimately, the seller/shipper is responsible for filing a lost mail/insurance claim if something goes amiss in transit. It's good practice as protection for the both of you to protect the investment.

I would encourage insurance for any purchase that costs any more than you're not ok woth eating the cost of.

If you're talking about shipping insurance, my limited understanding is that it protects against loss, damage, or theft of goods in transit, but it does not protect against dishonesty/fraudulency of one of the bartering parties. And even if it did, the carrier will ask you proof of value, which does not exist in a bartering situation. Now, a mail fraud claim can be done regardless of whether the item in question was insured or not. I am not sure the success rate of a mail fraud claim, but given that we are talking about casino chips, even if they are valuable, may not have strong traction with law enforcement.

My takeaways from all the answers is a trade success rests on good communication between the parties, good proof (photos, date, user name) of what it is being traded, a pinch of common sense, and maybe, if it comes to it, asking the help of a trusted forum member to act as a middleman.

 

[JMC9389]

If you're talking about shipping insurance, my limited understanding is that it protects against loss, damage, or theft of goods in transit, but it does not protect against dishonesty/fraudulency of one of the bartering parties. And even if it did, the carrier will ask you proof of value, which does not exist in a bartering situation. Now, a mail fraud claim can be done regardless of whether the item in question was insured or not. I am not sure the success rate of a mail fraud claim, but given that we are talking about casino chips, even if they are valuable, may not have strong traction with law enforcement.

This is correct. Insurance will only cover a claim if a parcel is lost or contents damaged in transit.

Mail fraud would come into play if a paid for $4000 set of chips was lost in transit, claim placed and paid out for that amount, but a $200 set of Monte Carlos was shipped instead and discovered later on when the package resurfaced.

There's no recourse from Joe Schmo paying $4000 for a set of chips and getting something else in the box entirely. Typical NAL response, but it would depend on the jurisdiction if you could pursue charges against that person.

 

[shorticus]

There are inherent risks with online trading anywhere. That’s just part of it.

Pay attention to the threads and feedback stats. I’d suggest starting with people with a lot of feedback. Personally, once I got past a certain number, I stopped worrying about if people left feedback or not. The longer you’re here, the more connections you will make and you will get more comfortable.

Just remember, nothing is foolproof so always take the necessary steps (whatever you deem those to be after you get experience). Also, make sure to share your experiences with the community when you can (both positive and negative) cause that’s helpful to all of us.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[upNdown]

It's like Fight Club in that no one talks about it, but once you've stumbled through the rabbit hole, you'll never want to lose your pass through the looking glass.

This is it right here. The PCF community is like the only drug dealer in town. You're not going to burn that bridge.

 

[ekricket]

How do we know you are trustworthy? You join and in less than a week you are asking how trusting people are, kinda like maybe you’re wondering what you can get away with?

Asking for “the constraints or limits” of what you can get away with is kinda a red flag.

 

[Dr_Dan11]

How do we know you are trustworthy? You join and in less than a week you are asking how trusting people are, kinda like maybe you’re wondering what you can get away with?

Asking for “the constraints or limits” of what you can get away with is kinda a red flag.

You were new at some point too, no? And yes, I just joined the hobby, and yes, I want to know how trading works here, because this aint eBay.

 

[ekricket]

You were new at some point too, no? And yes, I just joined the hobby, and yes, I want to know how trading works here, because this aint eBay.

Yes I was new once. I didn’t think for a minute that this was a site full of scammers though. I didn’t ask how I could get away with shady stuff. I watched, learned what was happening, saw the level of trust involved across literally thousands of transactions in the classifieds, dozens of sales daily, and never once thought I would get ripped off here.

It’s funny that you have this distrust, and then you ask the very people you are going to be dealing with if they are trustworthy. You trust our answers but distrust us, lol.

I’m not sure you’re going to make it here but I do wish you luck and hopefully you can resolve your trust issues.

 

[Machine]

You were new at some point too, no?

Ekricket was born a crotchety old man, he was never new! Grumpy as fuck was his first trademark before the Dust Bowl.

Careful, you'll only see 'bad' remarks about his posting, but only those that have passed through the looking glass know he's a teddy bear

It's actually amazing how crotchety he comes across on PCF but is so lovable IRL.

His posts in this thread also deserve merit; it kinda does feel that way

 

[ekricket]

Ekricket was born a crotchety old man, he was never new! Grumpy as fuck was his first trademark before the Dust Bowl.

Careful, you'll only see 'bad' remarks about his posting, but only those that have passed through the looking glass know he's a teddy bear

It's actually amazing how crotchety he comes across on PCF but is so lovable IRL.

Confirmation bias much? I’m “just being careful” you know, kinda like this new guy is.

@Machine likes to show how much he knows, but he’s got a mean side too. I’m careful around him too.

 

[Machine]

he’s got a mean side too

I'm a lover, until activated

 

[ekricket]

I'm a lover, until activated

View attachment 1613487View attachment 1613488

There are other euphemisms for this too

 

[Jers28]

This community is different from most other online communities, and the underlying reason is not apparent.

It's like Fight Club in that no one talks about it, but once you've stumbled through the rabbit hole, you'll never want to lose your pass through the looking glass.

Most members who would invest in high-level sets that would trade them already trust the member they would trade with. IYKYK

If I get ban for this post or it is removed you'll know why no one talks about it!!!

My 15 year old son just watched Fight Club with us last night for his first time. There was a lot of “wtf did I just watch?” afterwords, but he admitted he loved it.

 

[Bronson]

You were new at some point too, no? And yes, I just joined the hobby, and yes, I want to know how trading works here, because this aint eBay.

I might be wrong but “new to the hobby” people usually haven’t got any expensive chips that they need urgently swap with others.

As other lads mentioned, it’s all about trust and building up relationships with others.

Read through the topics, no one is accusing you for bad intentions but we had plenty instances where “new to hobby members” been pulling out some shitty actions.

 

[Dr_Dan11]

I might be wrong but “new to the hobby” people usually haven’t got any expensive chips that they need urgently swap with others.

As other lads mentioned, it’s all about trust and building up relationships with others.

Read through the topics, no one is accusing you for bad intentions but we had plenty instances where “new to hobby members” been pulling out some shitty actions.

You'd be surprised with what fiscally irresponsible people do with year-end bonuses....

 

[Bronson]

You'd be surprised with what fiscally irresponsible people do with year-end bonuses....

You’re not alone lad, start showing your collections, build meaningful connections with people, buy couple of things, sell some with help of the proxy and you’ll find yourself here well established after time.

 

[acezag]

Sorry in advance for the noob question and maybe this has been asked before. Say I own expensive chip A, and I trade with another member who owns expensive chip B. So I send to him my expensive chip A, and then days later when I open the box with expensive chip B, it is a Monte Carlo or something. Other than meeting in person, or maybe having some sort of trusted middleman, how does it work here? Is it all a matter of trust and user ratings?

Paying attention to post histories is helpful, too. The folks with years and thousands of posts, multiple in-person meetups and tens of thousands of dollars invested in the hobby aren't looking to screw all that up for one chip or rack trade.

In reality, a lot of these folks are some of the most ethical I've met.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Ekricket has been nothing but delightful to me. I don't know what y'all been talking about ....

 

[Josh Kifer]

In reality, a lot of these folks are some of the most ethical I've met.

Bwahahahahahaha!

 

[acezag]

Ekricket has been nothing but delightful to me. I don't know what y'all been talking about ....

Oscars of a feather, and all that?

 

[Josh Kifer]

Oscars of a feather, and all that?

 

[Jers28]

You'd be surprised with what fiscally irresponsible people do with year-end bonuses....

You’ll only be the new guy for a short while. I certainly was in a hurry to not be the new guy and didn’t quite understand some of the “attitude” I got early on. I still haven’t been here even a year and you’d be shocked at how many meaningful friendships I’ve made. I have completed over 100 individual transactions buying and selling with dozens of people. Here’s some basics of what I’ve learned. Most of the skepticism toward new members is justified. Reputations are earned, not bestowed. And we (noobs) do ask some stupid ass questions, to be fair. If you take some basic precautions, you will get nothing, but love 99.99% of the time.

Pretend you just moved to a new part of the country and no one knows you. You walk through the door to a local tavern and the place goes silent while everyone’s sizes you up. Maybe you’re great! Maybe not. We don’t know. But, in a few months, if you’re not a compete ass, people will shout “Norm!” and you barely recall being the new guy. On the flip side, if you demand everyone in the tavern prove themselves to you, your experience will be different, shall we say. lol

Welcome and enjoy yourself. You can build some lifelong friendships here, in addition to some amazing chip sets. I’d miss my chips if they were suddenly gone. I’d miss my friends here more.

 

[sleepypiggly]

Sorry in advance for the noob question and maybe this has been asked before. Say I own expensive chip A, and I trade with another member who owns expensive chip B. So I send to him my expensive chip A, and then days later when I open the box with expensive chip B, it is a Monte Carlo or something. Other than meeting in person, or maybe having some sort of trusted middleman, how does it work here? Is it all a matter of trust and user ratings?

What if you both treated this not as an exchange but as 2 separate transactions?

- You pay for expensive chip B with Paypal Goods & Services. Other member ships you chip B.
- Other member pays you for your expensive chip A with Paypal Goods & Services, you ship out chip A to other member.

Write out 2 PP invoices with descriptions for each of the transactions.

Would that make you feel any better? Now you each have a little insurance and have a separate obligation to deliver.

Paypal Family & Friends is the norm for transactions here with known members, but I can understand how it can be a bit scary for newcomers.

 

[Dr_Dan11]

You’ll only be the new guy for a short while. I certainly was in a hurry to not be the new guy and didn’t quite understand some of the “attitude” I got early on. I still haven’t been here even a year and you’d be shocked at how many meaningful friendships I’ve made. I have completed over 100 individual transactions buying and selling with dozens of people. Here’s some basics of what I’ve learned. Most of the skepticism toward new members is justified. Reputations are earned, not bestowed. And we (noobs) do ask some stupid ass questions, to be fair. If you take some basic precautions, you will get nothing, but love 99.99% of the time.

Pretend you just moved to a new part of the country and no one knows you. You walk through the door to a local tavern and the place goes silent while everyone’s sizes you up. Maybe you’re great! Maybe not. We don’t know. But, in a few months, if you’re not a compete ass, people will shout “Norm!” and you barely recall being the new guy. On the flip side, if you demand everyone in the tavern prove themselves to you, your experience will be different, shall we say. lol

Welcome and enjoy yourself. You can build some lifelong friendships here, in addition to some amazing chip sets. I’d miss my chips if they were suddenly gone. I’d miss my friends here more.

Thanks man. Yup, lots is new. I am a CCA member, not sure if that matters much here, but I think other CCA members can see my meager chip collection there. Again, I appreciate the kind words.