How big is the chip home market? (2 Viewers)

As far as raw numbers... Presumably people at Paulson had some internal sense and probably some hard research on this 15-20 years ago. Is there anyone in this community with friends there who could dig that out?

FWIW, I live in a rural Northeastern county with a population of about 60,000. No one in the county lives closer than 40 minutes to a casino, and most residents are more like 60-90 minutes away.

The number of local home and social club games in my area has dropped over the past decade. Whereas I used to know of at least four regular games in social halls, and about 6-7 home games, those numbers are now more like 2 and 4. Probably there are other games I am unaware of, though in this small a community I tend to encounter most of the regular players and hear people talk about where else they play.

Of the games I know about, mine is the only one which uses “quality” chips. Most use dice chips; I play in one where they have Milano’s, and another with heavy slugged chips of a brand whose name I’m forgetting.

So say there are 10 total private games for a population of 60,000. I think there actually are fewer, and games may be more or less common in other types of communities. But say 1 game per ~6,000 people.

For a population of about 326 million, that would suggest around 54,000 private (non-casino/legal cardroom) games.

Now — and again, I’m just spitballing numbers here — say 50% of those hosts are never going to use anything but dice chips, even if GPI starts selling to the home market again and makes THC-grade chips affordable.

Another 35%, say, might invest in mid-grade sets.

That would leave at most, I’m guesstimating, 8-10,000 games where the host might seriously consider acquiring high-end sets—some of which already have ’em. So about quality 150-200 private games per state. (More in California/New York/Texas, less in Alaska, Rhode Island, Wyoming...)

So now, the question is, how many of them are already all set (already have high-end chips) and aren’t going to switch/expand their sets more than once a decade if that?

Chop that number in half again, and you’re down to mayyybe 4,000-5,000 potential customers, buying sets of 500-2,000 chips once per decade. Maybe...

... which could optimistically work out to 500,000-2,000,000 chips per year, if a company like Paulson re-entered the market and aggressively promoted the product not just among existing chippers, but more widely.

What do people think?
 
Last edited:
P.S. Sadly I suspect the biggest untapped market is rich guys who have just built their first McMansion, including a game room featuring a pool table, some video games, club chairs and maybe a poker table, none of which will ever see more than casual use. These guys have decorators who buy crap from “luxury” catalogues. If I were a home chip manufacturer, I’d be looking to soak that demographic.

Then, when the inevitable divorce occurs, we all pick up near-mint sets for nothing at the estate sale.
 
I don't think the question is well-defined, and without knowing what information you seek, providing an intelligent answer is almost impossible.

I guess a more well defined and concrete question would be how many Paulson chips did Apache used to sell before the “prohibition”.

I think two times that would be a good ballpark number.
 
I’d be curious to know if, whatever month you used, is indicative of sales throughout the year. In general, I believe online sales drop some in summer months. So, I would guess the number is at least not inflated.

It was a 30-day period over the summer... not a specific month.
So, by my conservative estimate, you’re looking at over $800,000 per year on eBay alone, maybe more, and 20 percent of the dollars spent (at least) are on sales of $300 or more.
not 20% of the dollars... 20% of the transactions.

I don’t know what that necessarily means, but it seems like, overall, there is some significant cash thrown around at all levels of sale.

eBay isn't the only source to buy chips - but it was the best source of information about the overall mix of consumer behavior. Getting sales numbers from @Apache or Classic Poker Chips would contribute to the discussion - but absent that information it's difficult to speculate what types of sales volume the retailers of high-end chips are doing.

I think you can reasonably surmise that the premium poker chip market ($1+/chip) is 20% of the total market AT MOST. Realistically though, that number is probably much smaller - since this doesn't account for the dozens of retailers who sell entry level chips exclusively. It would seem almost certain that the vast majority of the premium chip market segment is comprised of the secondary market (eBay and private sellers) - and prices are dictated almost exclusively by scarcity.

I think the vast majority of home games are probably low stakes tournaments - people playing for $20 a person aren't going to spend $1/chip for their game. Those people are content to use a $50 set of 500 chips around their dining room table. I'm only basing this on personal experience... of all the home games I've ever been to, (aside from PCFers*) I've never encountered anyone who cared very much about the chips in play.

I fully welcome anecdotal information if anyone has anything to share.

*It's worth noting that not everyone on this forum is a high-roller-chipper. As beautiful as a $2500 set of Aurora Star tournament set would be, many people here aren't of the mind to drop that kind of coin on their chips, myself included.
 
I think the vast majority of home games are probably low stakes tournaments - people playing for $20 a person aren't going to spend $1/chip for their game.

I am probably an outlier, but my anecdotal experience is playing microstakes cash games with friends, but prefer to do so with high end chips.
 
I am probably an outlier, but my anecdotal experience is playing microstakes cash games with friends, but prefer to do so with high end chips.
Of course, we form a niche market. Not all niche markets can support businesses, but I suspect that this one (high-end chips for home use) could support more than one business, just like in the past.
Not sure that the same could be said of high-end ice cubes, made of natural spring water:D
 
This is the key point... As both the commodity supply and the ease of purchasing shrinks, the market shrinks with it, down to the most dedicated, well-funded and fantatical core of the potential market.

When Sriracha sauce was produced in small batches and hard to find, very few people knew about Sriracha, and even those who knew about it used it sparingly, as it was a pain to purchase. Now it’s in almost every supermarket in my rural area.

If high quality poker chips were still readily available at ~$1/chip, and you didn’t have to lurk on forums and eBay and Craigslist to find the colors or denominations you wanted, that would expand the market enormously, I think. Likewise if you had companies actively promoting and marketing top-quality chips.

Instead this has become an extremely niche market, where self-motivated individuals have to work hard to build sets... while the few retailers who carry “high-end” sets pawn off dice chips in mahogany boxes wit paper cards to consumers with no clue.
I don’t think even if education, marketing and readily convient point of sales were available there would be a significant increase in demand for high end chips. There would have to be a social trend like collecting baseball cards or the tulip bubble.
$1 a chip, which is on the low end of premium chips adds up at 500 to 1000 chip sets. At least the knife collectors have some kind of utility use that the general population can relate with.
Out of all the people that classify as having collecting tendencies, we are still a minority that have been moved by the game of poker. It’s one thing to have played, and another to have paid tuition and still want more.
 
I don’t think even if education, marketing and readily convient point of sales were available there would be a significant increase in demand for high end chips. There would have to be a social trend like collecting baseball cards or the tulip bubble.
$1 a chip, which is on the low end of premium chips adds up at 500 to 1000 chip sets. At least the knife collectors have some kind of utility use that the general population can relate with.
Out of all the people that classify as having collecting tendencies, we are still a minority that have been moved by the game of poker. It’s one thing to have played, and another to have paid tuition and still want more.

I think this is probably the most relevant point made so far. The reality is that aside from the CPC chips, are there really many other NEW poker chips on the market that sell for $1+apiece? We can also lump in the Paulson Elites from Apache since they're close enough at .95 apiece - but aside from a handful of products the majority of the market is comprised of much more modestly priced chips.

Ironically enough, I think in the secondary market scarcity drives demand as much as anything else.

Another issue at play is that while premium chips are preferable to us, they're not necessarily objectively better than anything else on the market. A parallel could be made to playing poker around a dining room table - the experience of playing the game of poker is almost exactly the same to a casual player.
 
Companies like Matsui and Abbiati don’t even attempt to promote to the home market. Almost impossible to find them on google without searching their names. Sunfly and ABC are also companies that I learned after joining PCF.
 
Last edited:
As far as raw numbers... Presumably people at Paulson had some internal sense and probably some hard research on this 15-20 years ago. Is there anyone in this community with friends there who could dig that out?

I was emailing with someone from GPI and they clearly told me that they stopped making fantasy sets for lack of demand. I found that pretty interesting as I always assumed it was because they wanted to maintain an image of security and only sell to casinos.
 
I was emailing with someone from GPI and they clearly told me that they stopped making fantasy sets for lack of demand. I found that pretty interesting as I always assumed it was because they wanted to maintain an image of security and only sell to casinos.

If that was the case why not accept our group buys? I am sure we can put a request as big as a small casino, if not larger. Actually I am sure that anybody here wouldn't mind buying a million chips and re-selling them. Even at $1.5 or $2 they would sell like hotcakes.

Do you still have the emails?
 
If that was the case why not accept our group buys? I am sure we can put a request as big as a small casino, if not larger. Actually I am sure that anybody here wouldn't mind buying a million chips and re-selling them. Even at $1.5 or $2 they would sell like hotcakes.

Do you still have the emails?

Do you know of any group buy that has approached GPI and failed? I have only heard of several that succeeded.

However, I am guessing the designs put forward by Apache are probably a good indication of what they are willing to do right now for the home market.
 
Do you know of any group buy that has approached GPI and failed? I have only heard of several that succeeded.

However, I am guessing the designs put forward by Apache are probably a good indication of what they are willing to do right now for the home market.

Actually I don’t know, no. Maybe someone who knows can chime in.

The chips at Apache are anything but Paulson IMHO.
 
P.S. Sadly I suspect the biggest untapped market is rich guys who have just built their first McMansion, including a game room featuring a pool table, some video games, club chairs and maybe a poker table, none of which will ever see more than casual use. These guys have decorators who buy crap from “luxury” catalogues. If I were a home chip manufacturer, I’d be looking to soak that demographic.

Then, when the inevitable divorce occurs, we all pick up near-mint sets for nothing at the estate sale.

The problem is many rich people are sensible when it comes to purchases. Why pay 2k for a poker set when you can pick up a set at Walmart for 60 bucks?

My richest friend who hosts with a complete open bar still uses shitty chips and a shitty old table. Don't get me started on the cards...

This is the same guy that has fancy cars and wears a rolex.

Bottom line is most people just don't care about chips.
 
The problem is many rich people are sensible when it comes to purchases. Why pay 2k for a poker set when you can pick up a set at Walmart for 60 bucks?
How do you think they became rich? :D
The meanness stays with them forever, even if they get to spend big for a handful of priorities / dreams they had.
 
How do you think they became rich? :D
The meanness stays with them forever, even if they get to spend big for a handful of priorities / dreams they had.
Oh yeah my rich friend is an asshole too. :)
 
Oddly enough, most people I know that love poker don’t even care or know about the chips they play with. Besides this forum, I haven’t met one chipper yet.
 
Oddly enough, most people I know that love poker don’t even care or know about the chips they play with. Besides this forum, I haven’t met one chipper yet.
So true.
My players appreciate my chips, but I can still distinguish the compassion towards a lunatic in their eyes :LOL: :laugh:
 
Oddly enough, most people I know that love poker don’t even care or know about the chips they play with. Besides this forum, I haven’t met one chipper yet.

Yea it is true. Like way less than 1% of poker players would be interested in paying a buck per chip or more.

Back to the original question of the chip market I think the market is actually very small. If we are talking about liquidity in the market I think it is a small amount of money. I don't include the huge collections people have already amassed as those chips/money are stagnant and don't really effect the market directly.

One way to think about it is if Paulson started making chips again for the home market how much would they sell?
 
One way to think about it is if Paulson started making chips again for the home market how much would they sell?

That's a great question and it doesn't get much guessing. All we need to find out is how much they were selling before they stopped. I am sure some reseller like Apache or Sidepot would know.

PS: By market size we usually mean $ in sales/year
 
Off-the-shelf sets would be much easier and more manageable for them than individual customs - unless custom orders were really big.
I guess that if Apache would be able to have the Majestics and/or the new Royal card room chips made by Paulson, they would sell like hot dogs (or sandwiches) :D
 
The resale market skews the figures. That market thrives due to a lack of new high quality options, beyond specific customs.
 
That's a great question and it doesn't get much guessing. All we need to find out is how much they were selling before they stopped. I am sure some reseller like Apache or Sidepot would know.

PS: By market size we usually mean $ in sales/year

My guess is
250k in the first year which would taper down to 50k/year after 3 years or so.
 
I remember when I first started shopping around for chips, before joining the forum, before I knew anything; the market seemed so opaque. Everyone had ‘casino quality’ everything for cheap prices. They didn’t even seem cheap then, because all the companies that advertised had the same price point. Now that I know a little more, my perspective on pricing has changed. But even paying more than a $150 for a set seemed like a purchase worth contemplating.
 
I wonder if a bunch of super celebrities started promoting and toting certain premium chips, it would move the needle.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Back
Top Bottom