High Low Declare (2 Viewers)

[DarkHelmet55]

The dealers choice games my group plays has several high low declare variants. Omaha variations we do not declare and just have cards speak. One issue that many of our group disagrees on is when more than 2 players reach the declare and someone goes both. We play if you go both of course you have to win both.

Example:
Player A goes low and has a 6,4,3,2,1 (I will discuss in another thread our groups disagreement on the perfect low)
Player B goes high and has a King high straight.
Player C goes both and has the same low as Player A 6,4,3,2,1 and has a flush for high.

One school of thought is that because Player C did not win both, his hand is disqualified and Player A and B split the pot.
A second school says that Player C did not win the low, but still had the best high hand so Player A scoops the pot.

 

[Eriks]

Not sure I understand where there is confusion. The pot is split between the best low and best high no matter what player holds which. If two (or more) players share the same high or low they will split that half. If one player has both best high and low s/he scoops the whole pot.

 

[TheBigTater]

We used to play a lot of declare type game way back.

0 coins/chips in hand for low, 1 coins/chips in hand for high, and 2 coins for both sides. If you declared for both you had to win both sides or your hand was forfeit.

 

[DarkHelmet55]

In a declare game if you go both you MUST win both to be eligible for the pot.

 

[Eriks]

We used to play a lot of declare type game way back.

0 coins/chips in hand for low, 1 coins/chips in hand for high, and 2 coins for both sides. If you declared for both you had to win both sides or your hand was forfeit.

Oh I see, I haven’t played any games like that. Disregard my comment please

 

[TheBigTater]

We used to play some 5 card draw games and some 7 card stud games with declare on the end. Haven't played it in a long time. Always enjoyed the draw games especially triple draw, crazy game.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Player C chops the low and wins the high

having the same hand doesn’t mean you lose.

Unless there is a house rule that is explicit, and everyone knows it ahead of time, that says you can’t chop if going both ways. Which would be stupid IMO. The whole idea of split pot games is to play hands that can scoop or get 3/4.

 

[TheBigTater]

Sorry OP, but in your example by the way we always played, player C's hand doesn't play & would be forfeit and players A & B would split the pot.

 

[ekricket]

In a declare game if you go both you MUST win both to be eligible for the pot.

Does “win” mean not lose or does “win” mean you took all the money? He didn’t lose any pots.

 

[DarkHelmet55]

I must not have explained this right. In no way shape or form is Player C getting any of the pot. If you dont win both you collect nothing. Its a risk you take when declaring that way. My question is more is Player Cs hand not even a consideration and Player B gets high. Or because Player B did not beat Player Cs high then Player A gets both.

 

[gmunny]

They way we play in our home game, In order to scoop you must win both hands outright. If you tie on one side, you lose both. So C is disqualified from winning either pot. This means that A and B gets high and low pots as they are now uncontested.

For declare, we use 1 chip for low, 2 for high and 3 for scoop.

 

[Beakertwang]

I’m not familiar with declaring, but even though C had the best hi, and tied for best low, he doesn’t get anything?

 

[moordb]

Player C didn't win, so he is out. Player A and Player B split the pot.

 

[ruskba]

I must not have explained this right. In no way shape or form is Player C getting any of the pot. If you dont win both you collect nothing. Its a risk you take when declaring that way. My question is more is Player Cs hand not even a consideration and Player B gets high. Or because Player B did not beat Player Cs high then Player A gets both.

Yea you can't say Player C is out, and then say Player B lost to Player C so somehow A gets both? That just makes no sense.

Once Player C is discounted by not winning either side outright, he's just completely discounted. The remaining players show down as though Player C never existed, so A and B chop it up.

A house rule to say that both ways can split a side and win is fine, but it just needs to be made clear beforehand so players know what to expect.

 

[Shaggy]

Look at it this way from a flowchart perspective... at showdown

1. Player C declared both... did he win both? If yes, give him the pot... if no, muck his hand.
2. Of the hands remaining that declared Hi, give the best hand half the pot.
3. Of the hands remaining that declared Lo, give the best (Lo) hand, the remaining half of the pot.

 

[gmunny]

I’m not familiar with declaring, but even though C had the best hi, and tied for best low, he doesn’t get anything?

Yep, in "declare" if you are going to try to scoop, you must win both sides outright. This is the gambol part of the scoop as even nut lows can tie.

Must of us older folks (pre-Hold Em era) grew up playing variants of 5 card draw and stud and 7 card stud games and this is how we used to play split pot games. Once Hold Em became popular the standard became "cards Speak" (especially for HE and Omaha variants) and the dealer must call that the upcoming game is a "declare" game to play that way.

 

[DarkHelmet55]

@gmunny has everything totally correct except the amount of chips. Its 1 high, none low and 2 both. haha.

But the other side argues that Player B did not win high. Player C beat him and even though Player C is ineligible for the pot Player B is not able to slip in and take half of it since he didnt win either so Player A scoops with the low. This is not my contention but different people come from different games with different rules.

 

[ekricket]

Look at it this way from a flowchart perspective... at showdown

1. Player C declared both... did he win both? If yes, give him the pot... if no, muck his hand.
2. Of the hands remaining that declared Hi, give the best hand half the pot.
3. Of the hands remaining that declared Lo, give the best (Lo) hand, the remaining half of the pot.

But the other low didn’t win either. He split. That’s not winning according to the Rules.

 

[ekricket]

But the other low didn’t win either. He split. That’s not winning according to the Rules.

1. The two lows tied so they both out, neither won.
2. The straight scoops everything since both other players are disqualified.

 

[Shaggy]

But the other low didn’t win either. He split. That’s not winning according to the Rules.

The player that is declaring "both" is laying claim to win both ends. The other player that simply declared "low" enters showdown letting cards speak.

 

[Burke]

I hate chip declare

 

[TheBigTater]

You could play it the other way but I always played when you declared for both sides you had to win both sides outright, not tie. If you didn't win both hi & low then your hand was forfeit and the other hands played as is. I've never played where player C's hand was considered after it is forfeited.

You could play the other way as long as everyone is aware of the rules ahead of time.

 

[gmunny]

@gmunny has everything totally correct except the amount of chips. Its 1 high, none low and 2 both. haha.

We used to do that, except we had one friend keep just closing his hand and not getting any chips when he went Low so after awhile everyone knew when he wasn't going low. Kept telling him until finally we just changed the rule. Lol..

The fun part about Declare is if you can guess the right way, you can "steal" one side of the pot.

 

[CapybaraFan]

@gmunny has everything totally correct except the amount of chips. Its 1 high, none low and 2 both. haha.

But the other side argues that Player B did not win high. Player C beat him and even though Player C is ineligible for the pot Player B is not able to slip in and take half of it since he didnt win either so Player A scoops with the low. This is not my contention but different people come from different games with different rules.

Majority of the games my group plays are declare and adjudicated using your described rules. It is unambiguous under those rules that Players A & B split the pot. Anyone arguing another position is simply playing under different rules.

Ultimately the host has to make the call, but if they decide anything other than Players A & B split the pot, then y'all need to either make clear that the rules are no longer as described above or stop playing declare because there will be endless fights.

I, for one, love declare games, and I think they're generally better for the sustainability of the game for a number of reasons.

 

[Shaggy]

https://www.conjelco.com/faq/high-low-declare.html

Sounds like these variations are common and should be agreed upon before the game.

 

[gmunny]

But the other low didn’t win either. He split. That’s not winning according to the Rules.

He did because he is the only player that won the Low hand. Its like everyone else folding.

 

[Burke]

Interesting, I think they are worse for a variety of reasons....I'll share mine

1) slows game down tremendously
2) adds an element where you can just make an educated guess of the way in which other players are declaring (mainly stud variants)
3) encourages everyone playing every hand essentially at the start (contributes to point 1)
4) makes it very hard to scoop (which goes to your point of increasing sustainability I suppose)

 

[ekricket]

, for one, love declare games, and I think they're generally better for the sustainability of the game for a number of reasons.

I don’t like them because of this kind of shenanigans. It’s a way to get one more bet into the pot that takes twice as long as if you just started another hand and got a bet in it. Time waster, not just the chip in hand part, but the 20 minute argument that happens afterward.

 

[ekricket]

Interesting, I think they are worse for a variety of reasons....I'll share mine

1) slows game down tremendously
2) adds an element where you can just make an educated guess of the way in which other players are declaring (mainly stud variants)
3) encourages everyone playing every hand essentially at the start (contributes to point 1)
4) makes it very hard to scoop (which goes to your point of increasing sustainability I suppose)

If the goal is to limit scoops just remove the scoop option. High and low split.

 

[FDLmold]

I hate chip declare

That is the conclusion I've also reached after reading this thread.