Tourney Help with NLHE Deep Stack Tournament Structure (1 Viewer)

[Gobbs]

I'm trying to design a NLHE tournament structure with a few somewhat specific requirements. I'm hoping to get some help here, especially from @BGinGA . (You'll know why, and I'll give you more details, in a couple days or less, @BGinGA.) I proposed a blind structure below, but I'm not real sure of myself when it comes to predicting the end of tournaments. So, any help/advice/changes/criticisms anybody can give me would be appreciated. (At least I got the chip-ups in the right place, though!!!!)

The specifics for the structure are:

- Nine-Player, Single-Table Tournament (the number of players is pretty much non-negotiable)
- Tournament should last approximately 7-8 hours of playing time (OK if it's a bit longer).
- Starting stack needs to be at least T25,000 (can be more).
- There needs to be rebuys available (maybe the first two hours), but I don't want many people having to rebuy. I'd rather not have rebuys, but people would be traveling quite a long ways to get here and I want to protect them against two monster hands going against each other early. I don't want somebody traveling an hour or more to get here and be out in the first hour or two because their AAAKK got beat by KKKKA.
- Blind levels need to be 30 minutes (can be longer, but not shorter).
- No Antes (That is not flexible unless there is absolutely no structure that will work without them - and even then, introduce them as late as possible)

With a starting stack of T25000 (and maybe hoping for only one or two rebuys), I was thinking something like:

1 - 50/100
2 - 75/150 (50%)
10-minute break
3 - 100/200 (33%)
4 - 150/300 (50%)
10-minute break to chip up greens
5 - 200/400 (33%)
6 - 300/600 (50%)
1-hour dinner break
7 - 400/800 (33%)
8 - 600/1200 (50%)
10-minute break
9 - 800/1600 (33%)
10 - 1200/2400 (50%)
10-minute break to chip up blacks
11 - 1500/3000 (25%)
12 - 2000/4000 (33%)
10-minute break to chip up purples
13 - 3000/6000 (50%)
14 - 4000/8000 (33%)
10-minute break
15 - 6000/12000 (50%)(anticipated end of tournament????)
16 - 8000/16000 (33%)
10-minute break
17 - 12000/24000 (50%)
18 - 15000/30000 (25%)
10-minute break to chip up yellows
19 - 20000/40000 (33%)
20 - 30000/60000 (50%)

Also, with this blind structure, what breakdown of starting stacks would you recommend?

HELP!!!!

 

[andy699669]

Initial 9UP T25,000 Stacks: 12x T25, 12x T100, 7x T500, 5x T1000, 3x T5000
Main Stacks:
108x T25
108x T100
63x T500
45x T1000
27x T5000

1 Continue/Rebuy per player:
6x (5x T1000 +4x T5000)
3x (5x T5000)
Total: 30x T1000 + 39x T5000

Colour-up armaments:
3x T1000 (108x T25 + 3x T100)
11x T1000 (105x T100 + 1x T500)
1x T1000 (2x T500)
6x T5000 (60x T500)
Total: 15x T1000 + 6x T5000

Total Set Needed:
125x T25
125x T100
75x T500
100x T1000
75x T5000
TOTAL: 500 Chips.

 

[fieldsy]

Initial 9UP T25,000 Stacks: 12x T25, 12x T100, 7x T500, 5x T1000, 3x T5000

This is super nit picky, but I don’t think you need 12 x 25, especially in a tourney with this structure and no antes. The 12x25 + 12x100 starting stack allocation seems very popular on the forum, but as tourney host I much prefer 8 & 8 even with shorter stacks than this and antes. Then again, my tourneys are usually played out in ~5 hours and I have interests in color-up efficiency to get it done. I’ve tried it, but just I don’t like piles of greens. And I’m not sure I’ve ever played a live tournament in a casino that started with 12x25 except maybe in a mixed or limit game event.

 

[BGinGA]

With a starting stack of T25000 (and maybe hoping for only one or two rebuys), I was thinking something like:,.,.<><snip>

Your structure will typically run no longer than 7.5 hours (L15) plus breaks, so about 9:20 hours total with all the breaks you scheduled. You can push the T100 color-up break to after L11 and color-up both the T100s and T500s simulataneously, and eliminate the break after L12. Break after L13 and then run to completion. Should finish in 9 hours or less. Probably won't get many re-buys if restricting it to just the first two hours (one or two, tops).

what breakdown of starting stacks would you recommend?

12 x T25
12 x T100
5 x T500
11 x T1000
2 x T5000
-----------
42 chips. Use 4xT5000 and 5xT1000 for re-buys, and you'll need 9x T5000 chips to color-up the T25/T100/T500 chips -- putting ~126 chips on the table at tourney end (a few more with re-buys).

 

[DoubleEagle]

With 30 minute levels I would break every three levels. Per @BGinGA, no scheduled breaks after L12. If necessary, players can agree to break if needed after that.

 

[Gobbs]

You guys are sure stingy with the breaks. I’m more concerned about the dealer than the players. LOL

 

[DoubleEagle]

You guys are sure stingy with the breaks. I’m more concerned about the dealer than the players. LOL

At the WSOP it’s every two hours.

 

[andy699669]

Details from @BGinGA:
Initial 9UP T25,000 Stacks: 12x T25, 12x T100, 5x T500, 11x T1000, 2x T5000

Main Stacks:
108x T25
108x T100
45x T500
99x T1000
18x T5000

1 Continue/Rebuy per player:
9x (5x T1000 +4x T5000)
Total: 45x T1000 + 36x T5000

Colour-up Armaments:
8x T5000, the sum of T25, T100 and T500 in play [9x (12x T25, 12x T100, 5x T500)] are T36000.

Total Chips Required:
125x T25
125x T100
50x T500
150x T1000
75x T5000
----------
TOTAL 525 CHIPS

Minimum endgame stacks (no continues/rebuys): 125 chips
Maximum endgame stacks (all player continues/rebuys): 206 chips.

 

[BGinGA]

At the WSOP it’s every two hours.

Yeah, but those are player breaks. Dealer changes occur more frequently.

90 minutes is pushing it for dedicated dealers, imo. If pass-the-deal, fine.

 

[andy699669]

Yeah, but those are player breaks. Dealer changes occur more frequently.

90 minutes is pushing it for dedicated dealers, imo. If pass-the-deal, fine.

From my calculation, 9-players' sum of T25, T100, T500 chips in play are T36000, so 8 of the T5000 is needed overall. Even with full 10UP/10 Players the total sum of the T25, T100, T500 chips would be T40,000. Still 8x T5000 to colour-up them.

 

[Gobbs]

At the WSOP it’s every two hours.

As a player, every two hours is fine. As a dealer, not a chance.

 

[BGinGA]

From my calculation, 9-players' sum of T25, T100, T500 chips in play are T36000, so 8 of the T5000 is needed overall. Even with full 10UP/10 Players the total sum of the T25, T100, T500 chips would be T40,000. Still 8x T5000 to colour-up them.

You can't simply sum the total and divide by 5000. You need to evaluate each denom color-up on it's own:

T25: 2,700 = 1 x T5000
T100: 10,800 = 3 x T5000
T500: 22,500 = 5 x T5000

Total T5000 needed = 9

In this specific instance, you'd likely have enough extra change from the T25 color-up to only require 2 x T5000 for the T100 color-up, making it 8 total needed.... but you'd never know that simply by totaling up the total value of chips in play. Each denom needs to be evaluated independently.

I use the ROUNDUP function in Excel to calculate this automatically. 10 players takes 9 x T5000, too.

 

[andy699669]

You can't simply sum the total and divide by 5000. You need to evaluate each denom color-up on it's own:

T25: 2,700 = 1 x T5000
T100: 10,800 = 3 x T5000
T500: 22,500 = 5 x T5000

Total T5000 needed = 9

In this specific instance, you'd likely have enough extra change from the T25 color-up to only require 2 x T5000 for the T100 color-up, making it 8 total needed.... but you'd never know that simply by totaling up the total value of chips in play. Each denom needs to be evaluated independently.

I use the ROUNDUP function in Excel to calculate this automatically. 10 players takes 9 x T5000, too.

Another lesson learned. Calculate colour-up armaments with each denomination phases independently. But, how to handle the shortages, kile the T25 to mow them with a single T5000 and so on? Does some higher denominations, the T100 also needs to be used to round up?

 

[BGinGA]

Nothing wrong with taking excess change from previous color-ups to make subsequent color-ups easier.

Using the above example, you really only need 2 x T5000 and 2 x T500 to color-up the T100 chips. You're going to have 2300 in extra change from the T25 color-up (likely 1x T1000, 2x T500, and 3x T100). Use the extra T1000 (or those two T500 chips) in addition to your two T5000 chips to color-up the T100s, instead of introducing 3 x T5000 (and ending up with a shit-ton of extra change).