eightyWon
Straight
live feed of me enjoying cards molds, oblivious of chipping politics
Have Chinese cards mold replica sets gone too far? (24 Viewers)
- Thread starter aggie
- Start date
I was referenced elsewhere but figured I’d not muddy up the other thread …
For the record, I’m not on “one side”. As I’ve shared multiple times: I get it. I made this post genuinely curious to see where the
I’m not on a crusade here and I assure you emotions are in check. I do, however, believe that there is a line and that it’s worth discussing. Clearly some don’t.
To the implications that this is all silly or irrelevant simply because other (bigger?) problems exist — I don’t buy that train of thought — probably because I grew up in a place where two or more thoughts can actually exist simultaneously. Y’all should consider visiting sometime. It’s a great place and the door’s always open.
Here’s how my mind works: if I really like the colors and design of Gucci shoes but can’t afford Gucci shoes, then I buy another brand. It doesn’t matter why I can’t afford them, I just buy something else. I don’t justify it or toss whataboutism at the fan and hope it sticks or even mock those who did spend the money (a popular pastime around here). I literally just … buy something else.
Hilarious? Judgmental? Apparently so. It’s probably also racist & misogynistic! But it takes an enormous leap in logic to assume commissioning / supporting / buying Gucci knockoffs is, instead, the natural next step — and an even bigger leap to then blame the state of the world / market / community for doing so.
I realize there’s a spectrum here, hence the thread. But the attitude “I can’t own it so I’ll just rip it off” happens to not be who I am. If that’s who you are, knock yourself out. I’ll still pound beer and sling cards with you regardless of the chips put in play.
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ekricket
Royal Flush
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
I can't agree that its an enormous leap in logic. In the market, when something sold is of superior quality, and therefore more expensive, the next logical step is almost always ripoffs and knockoffs. Movie plots, rockbands, Gucci, iPods, doesn't matter; if you're selling a successful product you should have plans to combat these because they will happen, its the natural next step.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Im trying to separate the two thoughts: we shouldn't do this and there is a line VS its not the logical next step. Call me cynical, but this is the logical next step. I dont want to misinterpret you, and I'm not interested in buying knockoff products either.
We dont need to get into the statement about the community and market forcing our decisions, that should be a thread on its own. I believe in free will, what choice do I have?
I'm talking about the need/desire to create exact replicas, not products that take design queues from other successful products. There are plenty of shoes that mimic name brand style to fill a void, for example, but they don't slap a Gucci label on them and then excuse the decision with, "Well obviously it's not real Gucci because the leather isn't Italian. I don't see a problem because it's for personal use!"
It's one thing to make a Star Wars-style movie with aligned plots, but a completely different thing to actually call it Star Wars and then blame others for being confused because "it's obviously not the same thing because it wasn't filmed with 35mm" or whatever.
Again, I realize I'm clearly in the minority. I had no idea that literally creating fake replicas of shit was so popular and widely accepted. China's definitely got us figured out.
To reiterate my original post #1: for me it's less the actual ripping off that bothers me as much as that it's somehow being celebrated as progress. I just don't see it.
louBdub
Full House
I don’t know these names.
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NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
Super fair, okay. I misunderstood the driving point. For me as a newer member I am solely in the playing/hosting poker side not in the collector's side so the lust for these is lost on me I admit.
And yeah lol, China has had our number forever, even moreso now that they have TikTok on us.
Completely appreciate where you're coming from, but the problem with poker chips — as opposed to shoes — is that there just aren't as many other options on the market to choose from.
Likewise, I'm not sure it's being directly celebrated as progress, but do enjoy the fact that we're having a healthy debate about the matter.
Who’s gonna start the poker chip collecting tik tok page??
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
I work with too many NSF agencies, can't download that spyware or use it on most of my networks. You're gonna have to act the dances out for me
louBdub
Full House
I'd only add that if chips are solely functional and not driven by lust, then why so much effort to create exact knock offs?
There are plenty of options, including stateside ceramics and even custom Cards Molds!
But for some reason that's not what's happening. Poker chip scarcity isn't really the issue, nor is it flippers behaving badly or collectors hoarding fancy chips -- although all three do likely contribute. It would require a little self-reflection to determine what really drives it, but I'm guessing this isn't the place for that.
And yes, a healthy debate is all one could hope for, and it's not entirely past me that we've jumped the shark on this one.
Good lord, flippers annoy me too, but talk about whattaboutism.Name names….
FWIW, I’m mainly a player/host as well and do a pretty good job at resisting becoming a collector. But I do feel a part of this community, or whatever we are. And as such, one of my objections to these copies is for newer members. We have no pricing guides, and we have no easy ways of identifying what a particular poker chip is, let alone what it’s worth. It must be incredibly daunting to anybody who hasn’t immersed themselves in this stuff for years. These copies just add to that confusion, maybe exponentially.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
Sure, good question. Ill answer personally. For my group, my players will care that it says Bellagio but you're right, they dont care or recognize the THC/RHC/ABC/2x4/whatever the popular one is at any time lol. I guess that's where it gets funny: the overlap between people who recognize and want that detail, and those that don't mind that they're knockoffs.
Fair point, and a story I do appreciate (e.g., "These are replicas of uber-rare obsolete chips from a super-famous casino, kinda cool huh?").
In fact, I actually alluded to that set, in particular, on Page 1:
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
Well said and good discussion. As I age, trying to be less Sonny more Michael, better for conversations!
louBdub
Full House
Dude, you just made me look something up.
Look at you, expanding my brain. I read the below copy/paste, and I’m more lost now than I was when you said it.
Whataboutism
Whataboutism or whataboutery denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation.Wikipedia
All good, no fucking clue who all these herds of flippers are. I’m just a wee lad in the PCF forum, so the historical knowledge evades me.
When say I think that this copying stuff would have been received very differently by the chipping community just 6 or 8 years ago, it makes me wonder how the really older generation feels about it - those chipboard singles collectors.
Better for health too.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
TheDuke
Full House
Lol at the folks who are all aghast with these cards mold chips. News flash. Boundaries were crossed long before cards mold.
The motivation for a cards mold 'tribute' chip is the same as those who seek to do it via other means like a tribute set via CPC with near identical inlay or via inlay replacement on a paulson chip with actual identical inlay. Or even those who go so far as posing as a gaming entity to dupe/defraud GPI.
It's not a strange concept that people want chips with certain design elements on their chips. It enhances their enjoyment for some reason. It's the same motivation that everyone had when they were first looking to upgrade from their dice chips. If you can't relate to that, then you're either lying to yourself, are completely disingenuous, or are a complete moron.
Majority of folks who are vehemently opposed to these cards mold chips likely have zero reservations about the above activities noted.
The motivation for a cards mold 'tribute' chip is the same as those who seek to do it via other means like a tribute set via CPC with near identical inlay or via inlay replacement on a paulson chip with actual identical inlay. Or even those who go so far as posing as a gaming entity to dupe/defraud GPI.
It's not a strange concept that people want chips with certain design elements on their chips. It enhances their enjoyment for some reason. It's the same motivation that everyone had when they were first looking to upgrade from their dice chips. If you can't relate to that, then you're either lying to yourself, are completely disingenuous, or are a complete moron.
Majority of folks who are vehemently opposed to these cards mold chips likely have zero reservations about the above activities noted.
ekricket
Royal Flush
I don’t think I’ve read a post in this thread that missed the mark as much as this one does.
I didn’t come here looking for “specific design elements” nor were they available at the time even if that was what was desired.
I came here looking for pieces of history, mementos of an era past that were not common, things that were unique, hard to find, that required patience and perseverance to realize.
I came for the chaos of sets scattered to the winds by uncaring individuals, to reach into that chaos and pull something coherent out of it.
I didn’t come to order stuff out of a catalog or simply make my budget known and have items magically paraded before me for the dollars.
I came to hunt the pieces, to build order out of disorder, hopefully beautiful creations that serve a purpose as well as honor their history.
You may think this is bullshit, but you don’t know me. If you did you maybe wouldn’t generalize as much as you do to justify your position.
There are others like me in this respect. Maybe not as vocal, but the same thing drives them.
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NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
Well said, fair stance. How was your Antarctic cruise?! Magical?
I feel like maybe I was just called a complete moron, so I’ll take a shot at a reply. Since this thread is all about where each of us draw the line, I don’t know how much sense it makes to say that lines were crossed in the past. I mean, if we all draw lines in different places then of course they were! But I’ll look at the past.
Sure people made tribute sets on ceramic and clay. Personally I didn’t care for them - they usually felt like both knockoffs and a little too clever. But I can’t remember any that crossed the line into copies. And part of the reason is that the best and most commonly used vendors all have policies of not crossing the line, of not making copies, of not violating IP.
But this new Tina horseshit has zero lines, zero policies, and zero ethics (at least as I understand them, ymmv.)
So no, it wasn’t nearly as bad in the past. But yeah, if you want to get into specifics, I never cared for chips or labels that were exact copies of the art, with just a few words changed (either to distinguish them from genuine chips or a CYA attempt or both.) But again, that was just my opinion - I would have drawn the line somewhere ahead of that back then, if somebody had asked me to draw a line.
But the bottom line response I have to this entire line is why should it matter? If something is wrong today, should it matter if it’s been done that way forever?
Also, ALL of this.
ekricket
Royal Flush
On the OP, I didn’t come here for easy. Any fool with a PP account can do easy. I came for opportunity, not fairness or entitlement, I like the thrill of waiting, then something comes along, and if you aren’t on your toes you miss out. Then you look harder, you look often, you LOOK. The recent attempts to make things “fair” to everyone don’t excite me, they cheapen the hobby in my opinion.
Antarctica was fantastic. I’ve got about 10,000 picture to post but we are still down here in South America until the 9th and the internet here is a bit slow. But the weather was phenomenal, we got it all, snow, sunshine, rain, cloudy overcast fog, it is just incredible to see the scale of the mountains and ice, the animals - whales fluking literally feet from our zodiac, being close enough to count the teeth on a leopard seal laying on an iceberg and warning you away, penguins waddling so close you could pet them - the incredible amount of icebergs, the historic huts and stations, camping on the snow overnight, it was all great! The Drake Passage was smooth going over but 6-8 meter swells coming back, literally throwing you off the stairs to your room if you aren’t hanging on. We were on the top deck right behind the bridge so we really got the full effect of the pitch and roll. Never got sick, so that was good!
It wasn’t a walk in the park but that’s part of why we go where we go sometimes.
Love the post Kevin. Almost 7 years in the making and many friendships made along the way. This is what it’s about.
Moxie Mike
Full House
Well said. I think one of the underpinnings of this hobby - and by extension the community as a whole is the fact that there's something for everyone. If you want to fill multiple cabinets with playable sets that will seldom see the felt, go for it. If you want to collect singles in any and all fashions - knock yourself out. Some are attracted to the challenge of the chase - while others just like to accumulate for the sake of doing so. And then there are people like me... I just like getting to run my games using cool shit (that have a meaningful history to them) that few others on the planet own or could even acquire without a substantial amount of effort.
All are welcome.
@upNdown
From reading your posts in this thread, I'm getting the impression you dislike the CM replicas but perhaps are having difficulty articulating why. My impression is you're taking issue with fact that the replicas circumvent the one bylaw we all are required to adhere to as chippers regardless of what we seek: Scarcity.
The thing is, the CM chips are ENTRY LEVEL regardless of what is printed on them. They might be the best entry level product on the market for all the obvious reasons, but they're still entry level.
My first BMW was a piece of shit that was 10 years old and had 110k on the odometer when I bought it for $9k. For me though, it was the best $9k I'd ever spent and I'd rather buy that than a newer model year Kia or Pontiac with half the miles. Because it was a Bimmer!
Never mind the fact that it had mechanical problems the entire time I owned it and it sucked driving it in the Michigan winters. So after a couple years I upgraded to an AWD model taking a loss in the process. The point I'm trying to make is I knew it wasn't the last BMW I was going to own when I bought it, and now I'm on my 3rd. And I'm sure there were those who saw that car and said to themselves 'that's a poor man's BMW'. I didn't care. I knew that when I bought it.
Same paradigm goes for many other things. I mean - does anyone still own their first Fleshlight? LOL
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