Game of Thrones (HBO Series - NO BOOK SPOILERS) (21 Viewers)

[Rhodeman77]

I thought they missed out on a powerful scene where sansa would have to confront her dead father as a white walker.

If you go back, when his body and head where sent back to Winterfell Tyrion says they don’t even know if the body/head were correct because it was so badly decomposed from being on the spike for so long. So there is no way to make him look like Ned now.

 

[Poker Zombie]

The story is called A Song of Fire and Ice

Ice and Fire.

A song of Fire and Ice was this...

 

[Stevosan]

The night is dark and full of dark. I thought the first 15 minutes of dark were an awesome setup. The next 45 minutes of dark subverted my expectations, and not in a good way.

 

[msuroo]

Book the show is based on! They followed it so closely for S1-5 up to a ton of the dialogue (which also imo fell off right after S5). NK was never in the books (S6 we first saw him) and I get they're going to diverge but I don't think their failure was the direction they went but their story telling.

I'm not saying they needed to explain every magical detail - they barely touched up any of actually - just that they missed out on making the NK more than a 2 dimensional character despite focusing so much of the show on him/the white walkers as this giant, historical, imminent, world ending threat, that has been there for 8 seasons.

But like, that’s what I’m saying. I wish they could have done something interesting with the Night King, but at this point the showrunners have demonstrated they can’t write the fantasy stuff as well, especially now that they don’t have book material. With that in mind, I’m cool that they put it to bed now, so we can spend the last 3 episodes with human characters.

 

[sem0030]

Seems for the most part the people that enjoy fantasy aspects of the show didn't like the episode very much, and those that could leave those aspects enjoyed it

 

[Poker Zombie]

Game of Thrones, most famous for the shocking death of Ned Stark. People loved it. The Red Wedding - shocking, but people loved it. As the show wore on, nearly every character was viewed as "might get killed".

On the eve of the massive battle, the viewing community is aflutter with names of everyone that is going to die.

Why are people upset that not dying was the shocking twist?

 

[msuroo]

Why are people upset that not dying was the shocking twist?

Mostly bc it was just so unreasonable. Jamie and Brienne and Sam and Grey Worm etc were on their last gasps, being overrun by a never ending horde for like...45 mins? Like, I know Brienne is a bad bitch, but at some point you lose the suspension of disbelief, yanno?

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

Why are people upset that not dying was the shocking twist?

They tied up a ton of character arch's and reunions the episode before which set up perfectly timed climatic deaths... then they said nah, these non-main characters are just going to hang around for another 2 episodes cause...? Like you said people loved the other deaths of characters why not do the same thing here were everyone was expecting to love/hate these deaths as well. Even while it was obviously some had to die - huge battled vs the dead - no one knew exactly who was going to die and the twist was that so few even second tier characters died.

 

[saleen121212]

They tied up a ton of character arch's and reunions the episode before which set up perfectly timed climatic deaths... then they said nah, these non-main characters are just going to hang around for another 2 episodes cause...? Like you said people loved the other deaths of main characters so they were expecting to love/hate these ones as well. Even while it was obviously some had to die - huge battled vs the dead - no one knew exactly who was going to die.

I was shocked but happy more people didn't die. I thought for sure half the main characters were going to die. GoT is great about doing the opposite of what you think will happen, I thought for sure this episode wasn't going to have a happy ending. Especially after the dead steam rolled the castle and all appeared hopeless. I am really anxious/nervous about how the next 3 episodes will go now. I also am still shocked they wiped out the greatest threat to man kind that easily/quickly. When does anything in GoT ever go according to plan?!?!?!

 

[longflop]

Another scene I just absolutely loved was when Jon was running towards the night king. So awesome.

 

[inca911]

A song of Fire and Ice was this...

I really want to see a GoT retrospective slide show with this song as the background.

Melisandra/NK
You come on like a flame
Then you turn a cold shoulder

Arya (obviously)
Movin' in for the kill tonight
You got every advantage when they put out the lights
It's not so pretty when it fades away

Dany
'Cause it's just an illusion in this passion play
I've seen you burn 'em before

The Audience
So you think you got it all figured out
You're an expert in the field, without a doubt

 

[saleen121212]

Another scene I just absolutely loved was when Jon was running towards the night king. So awesome.

Same. Until he was surrounded by 500 fresh enemies and lived.

 

[markleteenie]

I thought they missed out on a powerful scene where sansa would have to confront her dead father as a white walker.

But he had no head - I don't think he could be brought back as a wight.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I admit I expected more key characters to die, but that would have been terrible from a character-driven story perspective.

Each "name" character deserves a final scene. In a book, you wouldn't just say "...then Sam was over-run by the dead."

• Jorah got to die defending Dany. It was the only way he would ever die. Moreover, he wanted to tell her that he loved her, but knew that it would only hurt her more.
• Lyanna Mormont, the littlest of our heroes got to die taking on one of the biggest threats, in a pyrrhic victory.
• Theon Greyjoy had one of the most interesting character arcs in television history. He went from good guy to villian to broken man to hero, back to broken, back to hero. Only time would tell if Theon continued to heal and be a hero, or if the cracks would lead to catastrophic failures in the future. Bran reinforced his heroism, by letting him know "You're a good man". Theon was who he needed to be... accepted. In that moment, Theon decided to be the hero for the rest of his life. His death was his redemption.

 

[markleteenie]

I admit I expected more key characters to die, but that would have been terrible from a character-driven story perspective.

Each "name" character deserves a final scene. In a book, you wouldn't just say "...then Sam was over-run by the dead."

• Jorah got to die defending Dany. It was the only way he would ever die. Moreover, he wanted to tell her that he loved her, but knew that it would only hurt her more.
• Lyanna Mormont, the littlest of our heroes got to die taking on one of the biggest threats, in a pyrrhic victory.
• Theon Greyjoy had one of the most interesting character arcs in television history. He went from good guy to villian to broken man to hero, back to broken, back to hero. Only time would tell if Theon continued to heal and be a hero, or if the cracks would lead to catastrophic failures in the future. Bran reinforced his heroism, by letting him know "You're a good man". Theon was who he needed to be... accepted. In that moment, Theon decided to be the hero for the rest of his life. His death was his redemption.

I think that life is unfair and sometimes you don't get an epic death. I think Sam, Grey Worm, Podrick, Sansa, and Tyrian all should have died. But I get it why that didn't happen.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I'm not really sure why Melisandre had to die. I mean, there are bodies, literally hundreds of feet high, that need to be burned or otherwise disposed of.

It's good it is to be a long winter. In the spring, Winterfell is going to stink

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

Can't ever compare a book scene vs a tv/movie scene. If it's a decent book then the book will always trounce the video version of it in details.

No ones saying they should have skipped over any name character deaths (definitely could have fit 1-2 more in there by trimming scenes like the crypts). I get the character-driver story perspective but would argue that killing of more name characters would have greatly benefited that perspective:

1) Number of lesser name characters still left is high and they'll will be taking up the finite amount of screen time away from the few "main" name characters whose character story development is a lot more important than say Tourmond's/Grey Worms/Varys'/Davos/Messiandi's etc etc.
2) Killing off more characters important to the main name characters would deepen their character story through the pain / loss and better emphasize the true cost of (what we were lead to believe was) such an epic showdown of life vs death.

I'm not really sure why Melisandre had to die. I mean, there are bodies, literally hundreds of feet high, that need to be burned or otherwise disposed of.

It's good it is to be a long winter. In the spring, Winterfell is going to stink

I think it's the whole - everything they had to endure and go through led them to this point and now that they've served it they're meant to die. Ex - Theon (Bran noting everything they did lead them here - he also said to Jaime) and Beric who was brought back like a dozen times by the lord of light because he still had a roll to play (rallying the hound to help him save Arya - who eventually killed the NK).

 

[timinater]

Y'all know GoT traffics in upending tropes right? Night King + army getting summarily wiped out in episode three is 100% on brand for this show.

Just as the possibility of the North + Dany ultimately losing in Kings landing because defeating the baddest boss isn't a licence to defeat the rest of the bosses.

Know'm sayin'?

Also don't forget that we're omnipotent, but the characters aren't. They were operating under a best guess. They figure dragonglass will work, but don't know. They figure fire will work, but don't count on Wight seppuku putting out the flames in the trench enough to breach. They don't anticipate the NK can just raise the wights once more after dragonglass takes them out.

Lastly, people make mistakes. Watching a show with a bunch of game theory optimal battles wouldn't be very fun. Watching them be stupid and waste the Dothraki horde and then sacrifice the unsullied to retreat, well that makes for exciting TV. IMO it ultimately is more true to the characters. Who among them has really any experience in planning large scale battles? Of course they would make tactical errors.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I think that life is unfair and sometimes you don't get an epic death. I think Sam, Grey Worm, Podrick, Sansa, and Tyrian all should have died. But I get it why that didn't happen.

Life, yes. But this is a story. As a writer, you have to do your best, but you will never appease everyone. TV writers have it even tougher because of financial constraints.

I've said it early on, Sam is the only "unkillable" character. He is the memory of mankind. He is the only Maester (or Maester qualified) in Winterfell. His cowardice may not be very likable, but it keeps him alive. He goes on to write "A Song of Ice and Fire", in the same way Bilbo wrote There and back again. At least if I were to write it, that is how it would be done.

I do think the number of times we see Sam, Grey Worm, Podrick, and Jamie being overrun was ridiculous. The wanted you to think they were about to die, but then moments later see them is a more defensible position. It was probably done to create and release tension in an otherwise long episode. Without it, it would have all been tension, that would get old after a bit, and would fatigue the viewer. I don't think there is a perfect way to write this episode, without either short-changing some characters or making the episode 3 hours long.

 

[Anthony Martino]

rows of highly-trained Unsullied get swarmed by horde of undead and multiple front ranks are obliterated in seconds.

horde of undead attack Jamie, Brienne and Podrick and they manage to survive.

Tarley rolls around on the ground for 45 minutes of the episode and escapes unscathed.

Undead giant has an opportunity to just crush Lyanna Mormont and fling her aside, instead only slightly crushes her and then makes sure she's close enough to stab him in the eye so she can have a heroic death.

Berric Dondardin (guy with flaming sword) gets to die heroically holding back the wights and protecting Arya and The Hound

Jorah Mormont gets to die defending Dany from the wights, so another heroic death.

Too many heroic deaths for my taste.

And if you're the Night King and the button of doom for the entire white walker army (i.e. you perish they all perish) then why bother being involved in the conflict at all? You have superior numbers and can just overwhelm the living without need for being on the forefront of the battle.

Likewise for the human defenders, let's charge our cavalry into the darkness headlong into a superiorly numbered force and throw them away. Then let's keep the bulk of our forces outside the walls and allow the enemy or overwhelm and surround us with their superior numbers.

Defend from within the castle and atop the castle, setup hinderances outside the walls to slow the enemies advance and make them vulnerable to arrows, rocks, etc. and utilize chokepoints within the castle so that the enemy cannot use their numerical advantage against your forces (i.e. doorways, etc) allowing you to hold them at bay and rotate fresh troops in and exhausted ones out.

This show has been declining in quality since season 3 unfortunately, so no major surprise.

FWIW, the action was intense, didn't let up and was enjoyable. But the writing and holes in the way a lot of things occurred just make me glad they're finally ending this.

 

[1A25R]

I found this one very funny ;

 

[Meddler2]

Dany totally threw Jonah in front of her to get stabbed

I originally thought the same as well but have rewatched that scene several times and Jonah actually pushes Dany out of the way with his left arm and sacrifices himself for her. Something he had said repeatedly he would do.

 

[saleen121212]

I originally thought the same as well but have rewatched that scene several times and Jonah actually pushes Dany out of the way with his left arm and sacrifices himself for her. Something he had said repeatedly he would do.

Poor fella. He is the definition of Friend Zoned.

 

[BonScot]

It’s just finished over here. Seriously disappointed in the knight king. 8 years of waiting to find out what dastardly deeds his evil genius brain has concocted only to find out that his head was as empty as Varys’s underpants...

 

[Perthmike]

I was shocked but happy more people didn't die. I thought for sure half the main characters were going to die. GoT is great about doing the opposite of what you think will happen, I thought for sure this episode wasn't going to have a happy ending. Especially after the dead steam rolled the castle and all appeared hopeless. I am really anxious/nervous about how the next 3 episodes will go now. I also am still shocked they wiped out the greatest threat to man kind that easily/quickly. When does anything in GoT ever go according to plan?!?!?!

All of the things that you say make GoT great are true of the books and true of the series up to season 5. Since then the main characters have had the thickest plot armour and as @Jeff says the lazy writers love a bit of Deus ex machina.

Episodes 1 and 2 were really good this season, so i had some small hope that this episode would be different, but realistically I think we all knew the main characters would survive. My wishful thinking was that Khaleesi would die, but alas it was not to be.

Don't be anxious, they will all survive the end and Jon and Dany will live happily ever after in their kingdom of flowers. And George RR Martin will probably go on a rampage and murder the showrunners.

 

[ekricket]

It’s just finished over here. Seriously disappointed in the knight king. 8 years of waiting to find out what dastardly deeds his evil genius brain has concocted only to find out that his head was as empty as Varys’s underpants...

8000 years or something like that to plan and train and he only hits one thing with a spear and then gets killed by a twenty year old with a few years training. He never seemed too interested in what was happening anyway.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Knight King was a 2 dimensional character that suffered a 2-dimensional death.

The next series will be a prequel. I suspect it may fill out the Knight King as a character. The question is, with all the hate the show is getting, will anyone be watching?

 

[BonScot]

8000 years or something like that to plan and train and he only hits one thing with a spear and then gets killed by a twenty year old with a few years training. He never seemed too interested in what was happening anyway.

They lured him to the Godswood by telling him that’s where they were holding the Darth Maul lookalike contest...

Reminds me of life with the girlfriend

 

[Poker Zombie]

Darth Maul also turned out to be a disappointing villain.

 

[BonScot]

Darth Maul also turned out to be a disappointing villain.

Yeah but at least he got his ass handed to him by a Scotsman
Usually a broken bottle is the weapon of choice here but Ewan had to settle for a light sabre...

Doesn’t make Jon Snow look good. “Go away bad zombie man or I’ll tell my wee sister to get you”.