Does it bother anyone else that..? (2 Viewers)

[gopherblue]

Britain had been at war a full 18 months before the act. While it most certainly helped Britain had to go beg the US for any support. Prior to that FDR refused to provide Britain with planes it had bought. While the financial support helped it’s hardly the same as sending troops across to join in the effort.
When the US joined in it did make a difference. No question and Europe will always be thankful for that. But the point I’m making is that the US did not come riding in like the cavalry to “save” Europe. They had to be dragged into the fight by the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbour.

It’s actually much more complicated than that. FDR was supportive of the UK and entering the war, but the isolationist side of the US (including, apropo of current events, “America First”-ers) passed legislation forcing us to be neutral. Certain men and materiel did make it over prior to Lend-Lease, but not overtly like after Lend Lease. I, for one, find it shameful that we didn’t enter sooner, and that we didn’t open the doors wide to refugees, many of whom were Jewish, desperate to escape the Nazis.

 

[12thMan]

Well, I certainly don't agree with that.

But stating that the US entering the war was responsible in large part for the Allies winning is merely fact, not arrogance. Regardless of the considerable efforts of others -- if the US hadn't contributed, you'd be speaking German.

Ich bin ein PCFer.

 

[BonScot]

Well, I certainly don't agree with that.

But stating that the US entering the war was responsible in large part for the Allies winning is merely fact, not arrogance. Regardless of the considerable efforts of others -- if the US hadn't contributed, you'd be speaking German.

Ah the old “you’d be speaking German” line. Was wondering how long it would take for that to come up. I wouldn’t have been in any danger of speaking German if the US had done the morally correct thing and entered the war earlier like Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

Everyone agreed that the Nazis were bad news and had to be stopped but the US hid in the shadows for 2 years. Why?

The US did make a difference when they joined in and certainly helped. I’m not disputing that but you’re overplaying it. The USSR was the game changer.

 

[BonScot]

It’s actually much more complicated than that. FDR was supportive of the UK and entering the war, but the isolationist side of the US (including, apropo of current events, “America First”-ers) passed legislation forcing us to be neutral. Certain men and materiel did make it over prior to Lend-Lease, but not overtly like after Lend Lease. I, for one, find it shameful that we didn’t enter sooner, and that we didn’t open the doors wide to refugees, many of whom were Jewish, desperate to escape the Nazis.

Well said

 

[gopherblue]

Can we get back to the OP’s insanity?

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

We're as far removed from the start of WWII as they were from the start of the U.S. Civil War. This whole argument reminds me of the old "my dad can beat up your dad" nonsense from kindergarten. I really don't think anyone around now should be ashamed for what happened back then, unless there are some centenarian Nazis still floating about. Besides, theres much more recent stuff to be ashamed about.

 

[Tarheel4Life]

That’s my point right there.

That’s because Germany invaded Russia you nitwit. Here’s an awesome theoretical - if Russia never joins the Axis in the first place, there really effectively is no WWII, it’s just a regional conflict that never spreads globally.

So remind me why Russia was Europe’s savior again? First they threw in with the Nazi’s, and then when Germany invaded her, she said “no, wait a minute, Germany, very bad”?

Also, let’s ask Poland, Czechoslovakia, Lithuania, and about 10 other countries how much they like being “liberated” by the Soviet Union. Mmmmmm, Eastern Germany, THATS where all the good parties were.

Lastly - really bad form to bring this up the day before Memorial Day here in the States. I know the French don’t have a Memorial Day because they haven’t won a war since - well, I have no idea - and maybe Great Britain doesn’t have much to celebrate after getting their shit pushed in over the Falkland Islands, but maybe just realize that it took an isolationist and protectionist Senate and American people to get used to the idea of going back to Europe to fight again, but FDR did all he could with execution orders to help with lend/lease.

 

[Josh Kifer]

 

[jr8719]

Is this the thread for the next NAGB, by any chance?

 

[jr8719]

Lastly - really bad form to bring this up the day before Memorial Day here in the States.

That's a pretty weird angle shoot? American members of this forum have been actively taking part in this discussion in the same civil and adult manner as @BonScot — is it bad form on their behalves, too?

 

[Josh Kifer]

That’s because Germany invaded Russia you nitwit. Here’s an awesome theoretical - if Russia never joins the Axis in the first place, there really effectively is no WWII, it’s just a regional conflict that never spreads globally.

So remind me why Russia was Europe’s savior again? First they threw in with the Nazi’s, and then when Germany invaded her, she said “no, wait a minute, Germany, very bad”?

Also, let’s ask Poland, Czechoslovakia, Lithuania, and about 10 other countries how much they like being “liberated” by the Soviet Union. Mmmmmm, Eastern Germany, THATS where all the good parties were.

Lastly - really bad form to bring this up the day before Memorial Day here in the States. I know the French don’t have a Memorial Day because they haven’t won a war since - well, I have no idea - and maybe Great Britain doesn’t have much to celebrate after getting their shit pushed in over the Falkland Islands, but maybe just realize that it took an isolationist and protectionist Senate and American people to get used to the idea of going back to Europe to fight again, but FDR did all he could with execution orders to help with lend/lease.

HI.

So I agree with you. But I'd say calling someone who is well respected and loved here a "nitwit" by the seventh word is a bad starting point. You can agree, you can disagree, but name calling to disagree is a bad step to get your point across.

I could end this calling you a choice name, but then you would retort back with more names, and.... See.... Everything has fallen apart. Instead, you could just hit your points and those who agree will agree, and those who don't will do the same.

Have some good chipping!

 

[gopherblue]

Can we just get back to slagging the OP?

 

[inca911]

Hitler’s decision to declare war and fight a 2 front conflict sealed her demise.

Hitler was a woman = mind blown. Only time I’ve seen that is in Secrer Hitler. I think it was @Mrs Poker Zombie !

 

[Tarheel4Life]

HI.

So I agree with you. But I'd say calling someone who is well respected and loved here a "nitwit" by the seventh word is a bad starting point. You can agree, you can disagree, but name calling to disagree is a bad step to get your point across.

I could end this calling you a choice name, but then you would retort back with more names, and.... See.... Everything has fallen apart. Instead, you could just hit your points and those who agree will agree, and those who don't will do the same.

Have some good chipping!

BonScot is an adored member of PCF? Is there a roster I could peek at?

 

[Tarheel4Life]

Hitler was a woman = mind blown. Only time I’ve seen that is in Secrer Hitler. I think it was @Mrs Poker Zombie !

View attachment 464754

Hitler was the decision maker, and he sealed her (Germany) demise. The bullet from his P45 Walter that Hitler stuck in his mouth sealed his demise. People refer to countries in the feminine sense - don’t know why, but there it is.

 

[Josh Kifer]

BonScot is an adored member of PCF? Is there a roster I could peek at?

Yup. You will find he was the artist for the PCF Scrub Donkey set, and in general is very well liked. I mean, how many thousand chips were made?

Oh, the roster... Someone has that scroll somewhere.... @BGinGA , who has the scroll this year?

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

military expenditures for ww2 ‘37-‘45

In 1946 US Dollars 1 = 1 Billion
U.S.A. $ 341.491
Germany $ 270.000
Soviet Union $ 192.000
China approximately $ 190.000
United Kingdom $ 120.000

 

[BonScot]

That’s because Germany invaded Russia you nitwit. Here’s an awesome theoretical - if Russia never joins the Axis in the first place, there really effectively is no WWII, it’s just a regional conflict that never spreads globally.

So remind me why Russia was Europe’s savior again? First they threw in with the Nazi’s, and then when Germany invaded her, she said “no, wait a minute, Germany, very bad”?

Also, let’s ask Poland, Czechoslovakia, Lithuania, and about 10 other countries how much they like being “liberated” by the Soviet Union. Mmmmmm, Eastern Germany, THATS where all the good parties were.

Lastly - really bad form to bring this up the day before Memorial Day here in the States. I know the French don’t have a Memorial Day because they haven’t won a war since - well, I have no idea - and maybe Great Britain doesn’t have much to celebrate after getting their shit pushed in over the Falkland Islands, but maybe just realize that it took an isolationist and protectionist Senate and American people to get used to the idea of going back to Europe to fight again, but FDR did all he could with execution orders to help with lend/lease.

If you disagree with me and prefer the “US saves the world” narrative then fair enough. Whatever gives you comfort. But resorting to calling me a nitwit is just embarrassing yourself. Well done

Anyway on to your points.

Are you saying that the USSR (not Russia) and the war on the eastern front wasn’t the main reason that the Nazis were defeated? Who and what in your opinion was?

The rise of the eastern block is a different matter and not relevant to this debate.

I’ve not aware of Memorial Day or when it occurs so any “form” good or bad is coincidence. It was an American member who brought up the subject of the US “owning Europe” because of their endeavours in WW1 and WW2.

I am by no means a fan of the British military and it’s track record. One of the few times it acted the right way was WW2. However I do know that in the Falklands conflict Britain responded to an aggressive invasion by Argentina and successfully repelled it. So not sure what you mean by “getting their shit pushed”.

Your post really is a beautiful combination of arrogance and ignorance. But if the USSR narrative makes you uncomfortable and how great the US did makes you feel warm and cozy that’s fine...

 

[BonScot]

Hitler was a woman = mind blown. Only time I’ve seen that is in Secrer Hitler. I think it was @Mrs Poker Zombie !

View attachment 464754

Would

 

[BonScot]

HI.

So I agree with you. But I'd say calling someone who is well respected and loved here a "nitwit" by the seventh word is a bad starting point. You can agree, you can disagree, but name calling to disagree is a bad step to get your point across.

I could end this calling you a choice name, but then you would retort back with more names, and.... See.... Everything has fallen apart. Instead, you could just hit your points and those who agree will agree, and those who don't will do the same.

Have some good chipping!

Aaawww. Thanks man. Love you too

 

[BonScot]

We're as far removed from the start of WWII as they were from the start of the U.S. Civil War. This whole argument reminds me of the old "my dad can beat up your dad" nonsense from kindergarten. I really don't think anyone around now should be ashamed for what happened back then, unless there are some centenarian Nazis still floating about. Besides, theres much more recent stuff to be ashamed about.

That’s not the point I’m making. What I was trying to say was that the defeat of the Nazis was a joint effort and no one country can claim that they saved the day.
I totally agree with you that there is so much more recent stuff to concern us.

 

[SeanGecko]

Fascists in general are very dumb. Nazis lose.

 

[MathijsVS]

That’s because Germany invaded Russia you nitwit. Here’s an awesome theoretical - if Russia never joins the Axis in the first place, there really effectively is no WWII, it’s just a regional conflict that never spreads globally.

First of all, as others have pointed out, it's extremely bad form to call someone a "nitwit" because they disagree. Second, that's a very farfetched theory and I've seen 0 reasons to support this weird statement. The war had already spilled into Africa, Japan was still poised to kick the US out of the Pacific, the colonies of all involved powers were already in play, etc.

So remind me why Russia was Europe’s savior again? First they threw in with the Nazi’s, and then when Germany invaded her, she said “no, wait a minute, Germany, very bad”?

Russia wasn't "Europe's savior", but the Russian contribution to the war effort in manpower alone has been glossed over for most of the rest of the 20th century. This makes some sense, as we went from WW2 into Cold War and Russian victories weren't something to be celebrated, but it's a valid point to make.
The Molhotov-Ribbentrop pact was a rather typical land division pact made by the imperial powers of the time. This doesn't excuse the blatant imperialism from both the Germans and the Russians, but it's a big leap from a land division pact to saying they "threw in with the nazi's".

Also, let’s ask Poland, Czechoslovakia, Lithuania, and about 10 other countries how much they like being “liberated” by the Soviet Union. Mmmmmm, Eastern Germany, THATS where all the good parties were.

I've visited all of the countries you've mentioned so far, and to them it was a rollercoaster of oppression. That being said, I have no idea where you get the idea that Eastern Germany had "all the good parties", people jumped the wall because they preferred the risk of certain death over staying there...

Lastly - really bad form to bring this up the day before Memorial Day here in the States. I know the French don’t have a Memorial Day because they haven’t won a war since - well, I have no idea - and maybe Great Britain doesn’t have much to celebrate after getting their shit pushed in over the Falkland Islands, but maybe just realize that it took an isolationist and protectionist Senate and American people to get used to the idea of going back to Europe to fight again, but FDR did all he could with execution orders to help with lend/lease.

Ok, in order of appearance:

1. We have no idea when Memorial Day is in the States, because the rest of the world doesn't work on an America-based calendar. Add to that that a date doesn't make an argument any less valuable.
2. They do actually. They celebrate Armistice Day/Remembrance Day ànd your Memorial Day is celebrated as well on military cemetaries.
3. They did win wars. France has a history of warfare that predates the colonization of what is now the US. Calling someone a nitwit and then going for the "haha, French white flag derp derp" argument is weak.
4. Britain also has a long history of warfare, lots of it successful.
5. Your remembrance day isn't a day of celebration either, just fyi. It's to remember the American Civil War.
6. How is it that France and Britain can't "celebrate" remembrance days, but the US, with all it's fantastic adventures in Korea, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Cuba, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc, can still celebrate theirs?

Get off your star spangled high horse and stop strutting your grandfather's stuff.

 

[BonScot]

First of all, as others have pointed out, it's extremely bad form to call someone a "nitwit" because they disagree. Second, that's a very farfetched theory and I've seen 0 reasons to support this weird statement. The war had already spilled into Africa, Japan was still poised to kick the US out of the Pacific, the colonies of all involved powers were already in play, etc.



Russia wasn't "Europe's savior", but the Russian contribution to the war effort in manpower alone has been glossed over for most of the rest of the 20th century. This makes some sense, as we went from WW2 into Cold War and Russian victories weren't something to be celebrated, but it's a valid point to make.
The Molhotov-Ribbentrop pact was a rather typical land division pact made by the imperial powers of the time. This doesn't excuse the blatant imperialism from both the Germans and the Russians, but it's a big leap from a land division pact to saying they "threw in with the nazi's".



I've visited all of the countries you've mentioned so far, and to them it was a rollercoaster of oppression. That being said, I have no idea where you get the idea that Eastern Germany had "all the good parties", people jumped the wall because they preferred the risk of certain death over staying there...



Ok, in order of appearance:

1. We have no idea when Memorial Day is in the States, because the rest of the world doesn't work on an America-based calendar. Add to that that a date doesn't make an argument any less valuable.
2. They do actually. They celebrate Armistice Day/Remembrance Day ànd your Memorial Day is celebrated as well on military cemetaries.
3. They did win wars. France has a history of warfare that predates the colonization of what is now the US. Calling someone a nitwit and then going for the "haha, French white flag derp derp" argument is weak.
4. Britain also has a long history of warfare, lots of it successful.
5. Your remembrance day isn't a day of celebration either, just fyi. It's to remember the American Civil War.
6. How is it that France and Britain can't "celebrate" remembrance days, but the US, with all it's fantastic adventures in Korea, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Cuba, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc, can still celebrate theirs?

Get off your star spangled high horse and stop strutting your grandfather's stuff.

Well said

 

[ekricket]

BonScot is an adored member of PCF? Is there a roster I could peek at?

I think it’s in here

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/members/

 

[GianThaMan]

That being said, I have no idea where you get the idea that Eastern Germany had "all the good parties", people jumped the wall because they preferred the risk of certain death over staying there...

I think you’re missing something. Anyway
Poopy-di scoop
Scoop-diddy-whoop
Whoop-di-scoop-di-poop
Poop-di-scoopty
Scoopty-whoop
Whoopity-scoop, whoop-poop
Poop-diddy, whoop-scoop
Poop, poop
Scoop-diddy-whoop
Whoop-diddy-scoop
Whoop-diddy-scoop, poop

 

[gopherblue]

OP: Hey I have an idea! I’ll start a thread of absolutely bonkers tinfoil-hat rubbish, and soon it will get derailed, and ordinarily collegial, thoughtful PCFers will turn on one another over pedantic semantics and go the way of innumerable internet discussions, inevitably ending with Nazis!

Literally everyone else: Lots of misunderstanding, reading incomprehension, and in the case of our Belgian friend, some indication that humor and sarcasm doesn’t translate well to Flemish.

I’ll get popcorn.

 

[ekricket]

OP: Hey I have an idea! I’ll start a thread of absolutely bonkers tinfoil-hat rubbish, and soon it will get derailed, and ordinarily collegial, thoughtful PCFers will turn on one another over pedantic semantics and go the way of innumerable internet discussions, inevitably ending with Nazis!

Literally everyone else: I’ll get popcorn.

Looked to me like it veered into politics and the usual name calling and poop songs that accompany it.

 

[GianThaMan]

OP: Hey I have an idea! I’ll start a thread of absolutely bonkers tinfoil-hat rubbish, and soon it will get derailed, and ordinarily collegial, thoughtful PCFers will turn on one another over pedantic semantics and go the way of innumerable internet discussions, inevitably ending with Nazis!

Literally everyone else: Lots of misunderstanding, reading incomprehension, and in the case of our Belgian friend, some indication that humor and sarcasm doesn’t translate well to Flemish.

I’ll get popcorn.

Hey I have an idea!
Poopy-di scoop
Scoop-diddy-whoop
Whoop-di-scoop-di-poop
Poop-di-scoopty
Scoopty-whoop
Whoopity-scoop, whoop-poop
Poop-diddy, whoop-scoop
Poop, poop
Scoop-diddy-whoop
Whoop-diddy-scoop
Whoop-diddy-scoop, poop

 

[MathijsVS]

OP: Hey I have an idea! I’ll start a thread of absolutely bonkers tinfoil-hat rubbish, and soon it will get derailed, and ordinarily collegial, thoughtful PCFers will turn on one another over pedantic semantics and go the way of innumerable internet discussions, inevitably ending with Nazis!

Literally everyone else: Lots of misunderstanding, reading incomprehension, and in the case of our Belgian friend, some indication that humor and sarcasm doesn’t translate well to Flemish.

I’ll get popcorn.

It looked like German humor, and as we all know, that's no laughing matter