Does it bother anyone else that..? (1 Viewer)

[BarrieJ3]

I believe that this is the a claim, yes. However, oceanic ownership is a complex topic so I'm going to say 'I don't know' about international laws for the largest bodies of water

I’m super confused. I get the initial idea, if one person or family or power owns such a rediculous % of the earth, let’s talk. But this example includes that the royals own all of Aus, Canada, US, etc.

Can you just explain how that one thing works? Legitimate question. Are they receiving some sort of recurring revenue from these govts or people’s due to the ownership? And if not, if they wanted to, could they claim or take back parts of these lands by some archaic law or in front of a global court of sorts?

 

[charitycase]

I was actually super intrigued. I have little knowledge to what OP was talking about, and was excited to see what people had to say. Sadly it appears to be a lot to do about nothing.

I tried to have an interesting discussion, I swear!

@charitycase can you explain it to me like a 5 year old? Is this just some type of hypothetical or thought exercise? If a govt or family has some historical claim to land, when you go buy a house on said land, all your and the banks money goes to the previous homeowner/realtors/legal folks/companies/govt/etc right? Is there a literal line of financial gain to the family?

Of course!
This was not intended to be viewed as a hypothetical. This is a prominent cornerstone of our culture as human beings. We have a societal structure that functions as a result of territorial control. It isn't a black and white memory of ancient times. The Russian government is very publicly trying to expand their territory, as we speak right now. The same can be said for the Chinese government and Taiwan, or Hong Kong; again, at this very moment.

It bothered me that we, as people, are born into a society where one family holds indefinite control of the majority share of Earth's real estate. That being said, let's try the 'explain it to me like I'm 5 years old' that's a good idea. I'll try to keep things aligned with the examples in your post:

So, yes - You purchase a home from another citizen. Your money is transferred from your account to their account. The Crown Estate gets a percentage of the transaction, depending on the value of the property and the length at which the previous resident owned the property. This, occurring among every real estate transaction throughout the Crown Estate's 6.6 billion acre territory, adds up to quite a sum. Property owners also pay a Property Tax, annually. In the United States, this money is managed by a congressional body. However, the Windsor's are the people that collect the tax on their land. This is orchestrated through the Crown Estate. The Crown Estate is meant to act as a foundation for the government over that same territory. In other words, all of those taxes go to the Crown Estate - The Crown Estate redistributes the taxes for public purposes: public employees, road repairs/infrastructure, things like that.. However, the Windsors are still entitled to their interest on the land that you lease. So they are awarded a Sovereign Grant: This amounts to hundreds of millions in direct payments to the royal family each year. Because it is the 'Queen's territory,' that grant is not taxed; why tax herself?

Think of it like this: You own every property on the Monopoly board and you've built a hotel on every space. The only way that you can keep that system working is by giving the players enough money to consistently pay the rent with every roll. In this way, the money has no value to you because you own everything, including the money. But to the players, it is everything.

And wtf @BGinGA, I have yet to be chastised by you for derailing! Throwing me in with the lot of @Josh Kifer and @FordPickup92, humph.

 

[charitycase]

 

[BarrieJ3]

So, yes - You purchase a home from another citizen. Your money is transferred from your account to their account. The Crown Estate gets a percentage of the transaction, depending on the value of the property and the length at which the previous resident owned the property. This, occurring among every real estate transaction throughout the Crown Estate's 6.6 billion acre territory, adds up to quite a sum. Property owners also pay a Property Tax, annually. In the United States, this money is managed by a congressional body. However, the Windsor's are the people that collect the tax on their land. This is orchestrated through the Crown Estate. The Crown Estate is meant to act as a foundation for the government over that same territory. In other words, all of those taxes go to the Crown Estate - The Crown Estate redistributes the taxes for public purposes: public employees, road repairs/infrastructure, things like that.. However, the Windsors are still entitled to their interest on the land that you lease. So they are awarded a Sovereign Grant: This amounts to hundreds of millions in direct payments to the royal family each year. Because it is the 'Queen's territory,' that grant is not taxed; why tax herself?

I didn’t think you were gonna answer my question and respond with more hypothetical stuff.

But then you did with the above. You’re telling me that the crown family collects hundreds of millions from the US as part of our leasing the US? And the same with Canada. And Australia. And Africa and oceans and such!?!?

I need to go google this. I’ve legit never heard anything close or related to this. Lol either I’m about to come back here and ask wtf are you on, or I’m about to go down a rabbit hole and figure out why we’re not taught this.

 

[charitycase]

I didn’t think you were gonna answer my question and respond with more hypothetical stuff.

But then you did with the above. You’re telling me that the crown family collects hundreds of millions from the US as part of our leasing the US? And the same with Canada. And Australia. And Africa and oceans and such!?!?

I need to go google this. I’ve legit never heard anything close or related to this. Lol either I’m about to come back here and ask wtf are you on, or I’m about to go down a rabbit hole and figure out why we’re not taught this.

I'm not the bad guy!!
I'm bothered by this too!!

 

[WedgeRock]

As for the physical property of money, I gotta tell you, with things like Paypal, Venmo, Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc. The future of money is digital and there's no need to print so much money.

The only real and sustainable virtual currency in the future will be your online Windy Crest balance....

 

[Perthmike]

My understanding is that in Commonwealth countries, at least in Australia, a large percentage of land (no clue how much) is considered "Crown Land".

That doesn't mean she owns it and gets revenue from it. It basically means it's land for public use. I used to work at Perth Stadium and all that land around it is crown land, which is subject to a number of legal provisions concerning it's use. I imagine most airports and such are also crown land.

 

[BarrieJ3]

So ummmm, can you show anywhere where this is true? I can’t find anything that shows the crown estate collecting from all this historical ownership.

The royals receive their grant through the crown estate. The crown estate makes its money from its collection of lands and holdings over there, from the likes of England and Wales and such. It’s literally only netting a couple hundred mill (and of course %25 of that is going to pay the Queen, making up that grant). Most numbers I’m seeing show a worth around 14 billion?

Not to be mean, but if the above is correct, the whole thread is hyperbole, and I would think our worries and indignity could probably be spent on bigger concerns. But I might be wrong and someone’s gonna show some info on how all these countries pay into the crown estate!

 

[charitycase]

So ummmm, can you show anywhere where this is true? I can’t find anything that shows the crown estate collecting from all this historical ownership.

The royals receive their grant through the crown estate. The crown estate makes its money from its collection of lands and holdings over there, from the likes of England and Wales and such. It’s literally only netting a couple hundred mill (and of course %25 of that is going to pay the Queen, making up that grant). Most numbers I’m seeing show a worth around 14 billion?

Not to be mean, but if the above is correct, the whole thread is hyperbole, and I would think our worries and indignity could probably be spent on bigger concerns. But I might be wrong and someone’s gonna show some info on how all these countries pay into the crown estate!

I'm exhausted at this point -
I'm not saying that they even collect every debt, from every debtor, at the end of every fiscal quarter..
I'm saying the the power and privilege of owning that much land is bothersome

 

[BarrieJ3]

View attachment 464471
I'm exhausted at this point -
I'm not saying that they even collect every debt, from every debtor, at the end of every fiscal quarter..
I'm saying the the power and privilege of owning that much land is bothersome

Okayyyyyy dude. It’s not that they don’t do it, lol they can’t. In what sense do they own the land? I asked this question earlier.

They don’t receive payment from any of the areas/countries listed. They have no legal rights to the land. They have no means to “take back” the land.

Actually never mind. Is anyone on here a notary? I’m gonna go ahead and write on a napkin I own your house/land, get it notarized, and go ahead and collect a couple bucks every year.

 

[BarrieJ3]

View attachment 464444View attachment 464447

This literally says a collection of UK properties. I guess I’m not upset that a family or group of people may theoretically own some land that they have no power over and can never act on. Too many real things happening these days that have actual tangible affects.

 

[charitycase]

This literally says a collection of UK properties. I guess I’m not upset that a family or group of people may theoretically own some land that they have no power over and can never act on. Too many real things happening these days that have actual tangible affects.

I appreciate your participation in this thread

 

[gopherblue]

I tried to have an interesting discussion, I swear!


Of course!
This was not intended to be viewed as a hypothetical. This is a prominent cornerstone of our culture as human beings. We have a societal structure that functions as a result of territorial control. It isn't a black and white memory of ancient times. The Russian government is very publicly trying to expand their territory, as we speak right now. The same can be said for the Chinese government and Taiwan, or Hong Kong; again, at this very moment.

It bothered me that we, as people, are born into a society where one family holds indefinite control of the majority share of Earth's real estate. That being said, let's try the 'explain it to me like I'm 5 years old' that's a good idea. I'll try to keep things aligned with the examples in your post:

So, yes - You purchase a home from another citizen. Your money is transferred from your account to their account. The Crown Estate gets a percentage of the transaction, depending on the value of the property and the length at which the previous resident owned the property. This, occurring among every real estate transaction throughout the Crown Estate's 6.6 billion acre territory, adds up to quite a sum. Property owners also pay a Property Tax, annually. In the United States, this money is managed by a congressional body. However, the Windsor's are the people that collect the tax on their land. This is orchestrated through the Crown Estate. The Crown Estate is meant to act as a foundation for the government over that same territory. In other words, all of those taxes go to the Crown Estate - The Crown Estate redistributes the taxes for public purposes: public employees, road repairs/infrastructure, things like that.. However, the Windsors are still entitled to their interest on the land that you lease. So they are awarded a Sovereign Grant: This amounts to hundreds of millions in direct payments to the royal family each year. Because it is the 'Queen's territory,' that grant is not taxed; why tax herself?

Think of it like this: You own every property on the Monopoly board and you've built a hotel on every space. The only way that you can keep that system working is by giving the players enough money to consistently pay the rent with every roll. In this way, the money has no value to you because you own everything, including the money. But to the players, it is everything.

This is, to put it delicately, utter nonsense.

 

[charitycase]

This is, to put it delicately, utter nonsense.

Thank you for sharing

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I found myself agreeing with your post, then I noticed your signature.

stolen from Wikipedia:

George Orwell had used the concept before publishing Nineteen Eighty-Four in 1949. During his career at the BBC, he became familiar with the methods of Nazi propaganda. In his essay "Looking Back on the Spanish War",[23] published in 1943 (six years before the publication of Nineteen Eighty-Four), Orwell wrote:

Nazi theory indeed specifically denies that such a thing as "the truth" exists. ... The implied objective of this line of thought is a nightmare world in which the Leader, or some ruling clique, controls not only the future but the past. If the Leader says of such and such an event, "It never happened" – well, it never happened. If he says that two and two are five – well, two and two are five. This prospect frightens me much more than bombs.[23]

In the view of most of Orwell's biographers,[citation needed] the main source for this was Assignment in Utopia by Eugene Lyons, an account of his time in the Soviet Union. This contains a chapter "Two Plus Two Equals Five",[24] that referred to Guminer's slogan.

However, Orwell spoke of the Nazis, so he may have been making reference to the Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring, who once, in a debatably hyperbolic display of loyalty to Adolf Hitler, declared, "If the Führer wants it, two and two makes five!"[25]

In Nineteen Eighty-Four, Orwell writes:

In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense. And what was terrifying was not that they would kill you for thinking otherwise, but that they might be right. For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then?[26]

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

you’re giving me the wow emoji @charitycase but you see a lot of this today. Certain people in power tell lies, and if enough people believe them they become truths, at least to a large segment of the population.

 

[charitycase]

you’re giving me the wow emoji @charitycase but you see a lot of this today. Certain people in power tell lies, and if enough people believe them they become truths, at least to a large segment of the population.

It is profoundly thought provoking

 

[BarrieJ3]

you’re giving me the wow emoji @charitycase but you see a lot of this today. Certain people in power tell lies, and if enough people believe them they become truths, at least to a large segment of the population.

It is profoundly thought provoking

Wait, was this a test? To see if anyone would believe something someone on the internet said, with 0 supporting info or basis in reality!

If so, nice job PCFers, we passed

(good lord I need to go back to work and get a life, I’m gonna catch @FordPickup92 in messages rolling around in the mud)

 

[BonScot]

I’m gonna catch @FordPickup92 in messages

Don’t get carried away with yourself. You’ve got a way to go yet

 

[charitycase]

Wait, was this a test? To see if anyone would believe something someone on the internet said, with 0 supporting info or basis in reality!

If so, nice job PCFers, we passed

(good lord I need to go back to work and get a life, I’m gonna catch @FordPickup92 in messages rolling around in the mud)

Barrie, thank you for your contribution to the discussion

 

[Tarheel4Life]

This thread is fucking retarded.

 

[charitycase]

This thread is fucking retarded.

Thank you for sharing @Tarheel4Life

 

[David O]

I can't decide if this all belongs in the politics forum or the WTF thread.

But if @Josh Kifer, @FordPickup92, and @BarrieJ3 are looking to derail something today, this would be a good candidate.

^^^ He does have a point!

 

[BarrieJ3]

The Debates and Proceedings in the Congress of the United States: With an Appendix, Containing Important State Papers and Public Documents, and All the Laws of a Public Nature; with a Copious Index by Joseph Gales (start in the 2100s)

Its taken quite a bit, but after getting through the language, it’s kinda interesting to see how things were settled back then, and how simpler legalities were.

Who Owns the Crown Lands of Hawai'i?
By Jon M. Van Dyke

Found a solid resource that really breaks down one specific example. Good example of going through the history. I’d imagine reading through similar histories of the entire US would be too comprehensive to pull individual examples out of. This particular history has a lot to do with indigenous folks, but also covers and mentions repeatedly, the crown ceding land.

Sorry if this is political, felt it to be more historical.

Oh and if anyone in the US was wondering, no, I can’t find any text pointing that the British retain ownership over our lands. Suppose that’s good for now.

Edit - jfc, how did this thread get 3 pages?

 

[ekricket]

Asset map of the crown estate

https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/en-gb/our-places/asset-map/

United States land is a whole different kettle of fish, with ceded/unceded state land, headrights, foreign country land grants, railroad grants, reservations, homesteads, lottery land, etc..... especially when you hit the Rockies and go west.

 

[BonScot]

The Debates and Proceedings in the Congress of the United States: With an Appendix, Containing Important State Papers and Public Documents, and All the Laws of a Public Nature; with a Copious Index by Joseph Gales (start in the 2100s)

Its taken quite a bit, but after getting through the language, it’s kinda interesting to see how things were settled back then, and how simpler legalities were.

Who Owns the Crown Lands of Hawai'i?
By Jon M. Van Dyke

Found a solid resource that really breaks down one specific example. Good example of going through the history. I’d imagine reading through similar histories of the entire US would be too comprehensive to pull individual examples out of. This particular history has a lot to do with indigenous folks, but also covers and mentions repeatedly, the crown ceding land.

Sorry if this is political, felt it to be more historical.

Oh and if anyone in the US was wondering, no, I can’t find any text pointing that the British retain ownership over our lands. Suppose that’s good for now.

Edit - jfc, how did this thread get 3 pages?

Just checked my last tax return and it turns out I own Mobile, Alabama. Is that any good?

 

[FordPickup92]

Wait, was this a test? To see if anyone would believe something someone on the internet said, with 0 supporting info or basis in reality!

If so, nice job PCFers, we passed

(good lord I need to go back to work and get a life, I’m gonna catch @FordPickup92 in messages rolling around in the mud)

Look I dunno wtf I missed here but I love a good mud wrastle. Back in my high school facebook days we used to jump in the mud pit after the trucks were done runnin through. Just gotta watch out for the damn rocks

 

[BGinGA]

The number of military casualties tells its own story:

USSR 10 million
Germany 5.5 million
China 3 million
Japan 2.1 million
Yugoslavia 0.5 million
USA 0.4 million
UK 0.4 million
Romania 0.3 million
Hungry 0.3 million
Italy 0.3 million
Austria 0.25 million
Poland 0.25 million
France 0.2 million
Finland 0.1 million
India 0.1 million

Yeah, and that story is that some cultures have very different ideas regarding the value of human life.

Total military casualties means nothing in term of effort or contribution.

 

[BonScot]

Yeah, and that story is that some cultures have very different ideas regarding the value of human life.

Total military casualties means nothing in term of effort or contribution.

So which country would you say put in the most effort or contributed the most?

 

[BGinGA]

So which country would you say put in the most effort or contributed the most?

Those that contributed the most from a financial, physical assets, and manpower perspective.