Deciding to take a shot as a PLO pro in TAMPA but lots of good players. (1 Viewer)

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Cant tell if OP is serious or another person trying to troll @Anthony Martino

Wondering the same

I’m not a financial planner, but if you can afford to lose the 50k why did it come out of an IRA? Also won’t you have to pay Federal taxes plus a 10% penalty for early withdrawal because you are under 59.5 years old? If true the rake is awful before you play your first hand.
Has to be a troll, right?
 

IaHawk

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It’s the ultimate troll, it is really @Anthony Martino trolling all of us by trolling himself!
6C5103FF-6BF4-4C8A-ADAA-4E7F701DD935.gif
 

ekricket

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The first raises reraises and the massage player folds and shows 3456 with 4 hearts. I was shocked. The first raises showed just an 7 9 and J and smiled. I feel lost already.
Welcome to PLO in the World Series. I kid you not, this is what it’s like in the smaller events. People playing PLO like it’s holdem
 

MediocrePLOdude

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This is no troll. And as for the IRA comment. My stocks are up 240% since opening account so the 20 and 10% fees don't bother me. If I am successful I want to play full time.
I played late and lost 1200. I saw some crazy pots. The skinny massage kid lost an 8k pot to the other good pro when the good pro flopped top set aces versus bottom two of skinny massage kid. I thought he was supposed to be really good?? But I guess he is because he then won it all back. Some guy named brad finally sat and was such a weird guy. He lost 5 buyins then won it all back. What a wild game. I feel ill stick more to 2-2 for now. In 5-5 for a while it was 5-5-10-20-40 and that's too big
 

Anthony Martino

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This is no troll. And as for the IRA comment. My stocks are up 240% since opening account so the 20 and 10% fees don't bother me. If I am successful I want to play full time.
I played late and lost 1200. I saw some crazy pots. The skinny massage kid lost an 8k pot to the other good pro when the good pro flopped top set aces versus bottom two of skinny massage kid. I thought he was supposed to be really good?? But I guess he is because he then won it all back. Some guy named brad finally sat and was such a weird guy. He lost 5 buyins then won it all back. What a wild game. I feel ill stick more to 2-2 for now. In 5-5 for a while it was 5-5-10-20-40 and that's too big

Brad is one of the action guys for sure (really scratchy voice and wears a WSOP hat usually). The massage pro will take -EV lines sometimes because he's looking to advertise that he can be action, so he can get into the juicier private games he had been shut out of in the past.

He's willing to mix it up and make some less than stellar plays if he thinks it'll pay off down the road.
 

MediocrePLOdude

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Brad is one of the action guys for sure (really scratchy voice and wears a WSOP hat usually). The massage pro will take -EV lines sometimes because he's looking to advertise that he can be action, so he can get into the juicier private games he had been shut out of in the past.

He's willing to mix it up and make some less than stellar plays if he thinks it'll pay off down the road.
The skinny massage pro has a really bad fake tell. When he is strong he gives a very disgusted look and acts like he's giving up. I think it's a really really obvious fake tell which I heard about once in a podcast so I'm going to try to use that against him if I play the big game again

Brad is one of the action guys for sure (really scratchy voice and wears a WSOP hat usually). The massage pro will take -EV lines sometimes because he's looking to advertise that he can be action, so he can get into the juicier private games he had been shut out of in the past.

He's willing to mix it up and make some less than stellar plays if he thinks it'll pay off down the road.
I saw Brad as a strong player. He's unpredictable and makes crazy bluffs. People think he's a fish but think he's very tough. He plays every hand so you never know if he's bluffing or had it. Underrated player who consistently has big stack

Also I have learned the skinny massage kid lost the huge pot to a NL pro named Brian. I think Brian was a little too loose preflop in some spots and using incorrect frequencies in his 3b and cbetting ranges. However I saw him make some really nice blocker oriented bluffs. I have heard he is a good NL player but I see him as equal to Brad in the 5-5-10.PLO ranks. I am unsure why everyone thinks the skinny massage pro is so good. He is very polite but when he is 3 betting hands with 6543 with a 5k stack I think he's just a rich fish. Maybe he shorted Bitcoin
 

MatB

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Im a terrible player to take what I say with a bucket of salt.

Reading your intro post here, id say you are doing the right thing.
The best education for stuff like this is getting in there and getting your hands dirty.
Jump in.
lose a lot of money
play with better players
Rinse and repeat.

Its the only true way you'll ever be a 'good player'

Right now It looks like you are at the beginning stages of this journey.

Good luck !
 

Goldfish

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The skinny massage pro has a really bad fake tell. When he is strong he gives a very disgusted look and acts like he's giving up. I think it's a really really obvious fake tell which I heard about once in a podcast so I'm going to try to use that against him if I play the big game again


I saw Brad as a strong player. He's unpredictable and makes crazy bluffs. People think he's a fish but think he's very tough. He plays every hand so you never know if he's bluffing or had it. Underrated player who consistently has big stack

Also I have learned the skinny massage kid lost the huge pot to a NL pro named Brian. I think Brian was a little too loose preflop in some spots and using incorrect frequencies in his 3b and cbetting ranges. However I saw him make some really nice blocker oriented bluffs. I have heard he is a good NL player but I see him as equal to Brad in the 5-5-10.PLO ranks. I am unsure why everyone thinks the skinny massage pro is so good. He is very polite but when he is 3 betting hands with 6543 with a 5k stack I think he's just a rich fish. Maybe he shorted Bitcoin
Why is 6543 a bad hand to 3 bet with? I think rundowns, especially suited are great hands. gotta Mix it up a little. But I am no pro.
 

DeusEx

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Why is 6543 a bad hand to 3 bet with? I think rundowns, especially suited are great hands. gotta Mix it up a little. But I am no pro.
Typically, if you make a hand its not the nuts. :ac::2c::th: bot set (bottom set :2s::2h:) pots, do you want call? We'll say $10 preflop 4 way action, utg (under the gun, the guy just past the big blind (assist leader) ) bets out for 15, the Hijack (two guys right of the button) makes it 80 its your action on the button, you going to call 80 with that hand? And this foregoes the preflop 3 bet scenario. I think its fine to play with a limp or maybe a raise, easier to fade in late position.

What about this one :5s::7d::9c:, or :2h::5d::7c:

But I am no pro
Who is? lol not me, I've just invested a lot of money into an education. Having the knowledge doesn't mean you'll play it right either tilt, table reads can put you on the highway to hell!

Grad of The School of hard knocks bb
 
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moose

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Why is 6543 a bad hand to 3 bet with? I think rundowns, especially suited are great hands. gotta Mix it up a little. But I am no pro.
Because any cards in your hand that can make a wheel will be vulnerable to redraws to make a higher straight so you might as well not play them.

To specifically use 34 in your hand, then A25 is your best possible flop.

Looking at all the possible turn cards:
1. There is no higher turn card that can come that you won't be sweating the redraw on the river, that's every single turn card - 6,7,8,9,10,J,Q,K. Board runs out A2568 or A2579. How about A25KJ or A25Q10? Are you willing to call off your stack?
2. You pair any board card, A,2,5 you are vulnerable to a higher boat draw, never mind Aces full or quads already.
3. You could pair your 3 or 4, that is six safe turn outs to a bigger straight for you and if that is the case, then you didn't need the 3/4 in your hand anyways AND you could still be chopping, OR even if you are double suited, have your shitty flush lose to a higher flush by the river.

Summary: don't play wheel cards.
 
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Goldfish

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Typically, if you make a hand its not the nuts. :ac::2c::th: bot set pots, do you want call? We'll say $10 preflop 4 way action, utg (assist leader) bets out for 15, the Hijack makes it 80 its your action on the button, you going to call 80 with that hand?

What about this one :5s::7d::9c:, or :2h::5d::7c:


Who is? lol not me, I've just invested a lot of money into an education. Having the knowledge doesn't mean you'll play it right either tilt, table reads can put you on the highway to hell!

Grad of The School of hard knocks bb
I don’t understand all that poker lingo u just spewed out. I just know that I am never folding any rundown hand pre (and will raise with that too), and I am not folding any suited ace. I will see the flop no matter the cost. that may be why I get more poker invite emails than work emails. :unsure:
 

DeusEx

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I edited it, should be easier to read ;)
 

Goldfish

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Because any cards in your hand that can make a wheel will be vulnerable to redraws to make a higher straight so you might as well not play them.

Board runs out A2568 or A2579. How about A25KJ or A25Q10? Are you willing to call off your stack? There is no higher turn card that can come that you won't be sweating the redraw on the river, that's every single turn card - 6,7,8,9,10,J,Q,K. You pair any board card, A,2,5 you are vulnerable to a higher boat draw, never mind Aces full or quads already. You could pair your 3 or 4, that is six safe outs to a bigger straight for you and if that is the case, then you didn't need the 3/4 in your hand anyways AND you could still be chopping.

Summary: don't play wheel cards.
1. i don’t subscribe to the “you can never be too careful” philosophy at the poker table. There will always be draws and better hands out there. It’s plo. My philosophy is “I didn’t come here to fold”. 4 cards working together - Let’s goooooo.
3. My main game is big o so I will play wheel cards strong in plo so I don’t mess up my big o game.
3. If I 3 bet 3456, and nobody 4 bets I will assume nobody has aces in their hand. If an ace hits the flop I will bet representing That I have aces. If it turns to crap and I lose my buy in I will just rebuy. that’s the beauty of the cash game.
 

MatB

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But a 3 bet pre flop raise with 6543 should eliminate other players who would connect better with a flop of lower cards.

I think the 'dont see a flop with 6543' crowd are usually happy to see a flop with 5 other players. In which case yes. don't see a flop.


EDIT:

I am also not a pro. Like that needed saying.
 
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Goldfish

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But a 3 bet pre flop raise with 6543 should eliminate other players who would connect better with a flop of lower cards.

I think the 'dont see a flop with 6543' crowd are usually happy to see a flop with 5 other players. In which case yes. don't see a flop.


EDIT:

I am alos not a pro. Like that needed saying.
We are on the same page…….
 

MatB

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The pre flop checkers are often left complaining about variance when 5 players saw a flop and OMG the other guy got there! Why do I run so bad?

Thats it. No more strategy from me. Giving away too many gems.
 

k9dr

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The pre flop checkers are often left complaining about variance when 5 players saw a flop and OMG the other guy got there! Why do I run so bad?

Thats it. No more strategy from me. Giving away too many gems.

Taking notes :unsure:
 

Anthony Martino

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The skinny massage pro has a really bad fake tell. When he is strong he gives a very disgusted look and acts like he's giving up. I think it's a really really obvious fake tell which I heard about once in a podcast so I'm going to try to use that against him if I play the big game again


I saw Brad as a strong player. He's unpredictable and makes crazy bluffs. People think he's a fish but think he's very tough. He plays every hand so you never know if he's bluffing or had it. Underrated player who consistently has big stack

Also I have learned the skinny massage kid lost the huge pot to a NL pro named Brian. I think Brian was a little too loose preflop in some spots and using incorrect frequencies in his 3b and cbetting ranges. However I saw him make some really nice blocker oriented bluffs. I have heard he is a good NL player but I see him as equal to Brad in the 5-5-10.PLO ranks. I am unsure why everyone thinks the skinny massage pro is so good. He is very polite but when he is 3 betting hands with 6543 with a 5k stack I think he's just a rich fish. Maybe he shorted Bitcoin

You sure have a lot of insight and knowledge of everyone given you're brand new to these games. One might think you've been playing them a long time.......

As far as 3-betting a low-oriented rundown, it's far better than cold-calling with it. If he's got position on his opponent and can get it headsup, he can represent a number of flops as having hit him and use his positional advantage to take them down. And when he actually connects with the board, his opponents may assume he completely whiffed and pay him off.

While it's not my style of play as I prefer as many players in the pot as possible preflop, the massage kid is easily one of the best and most successful players in the PLO streets in Tampa. Does he play perfect? No, he's got his leaks and isn't immune to tilt, but I'd still rather he's at a different table than mine if I had the option. My understanding is he has rental properties and stocks so has plenty of other income coming in that he doesn't really have a risk of ruin in the stakes generally played in Tampa.

I don't think Brad is a terrible player, but he definitely drives action and can be dangerous as you said because you can't always put him on a hand. The Brian kid you mentioned (mostly bald kid, or maybe he was wearing a ball cap) I think is way too loose and aggressive in the PLO games, with some lackluster hand selection. He understands position and aggression, but I think he lacks fundamentals regarding hand selection in the game. I don't play NL cash so no idea on his skillset there, but he's willing to gamble in the PLO streets and is generally a welcome addition to the table.
 

MatB

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While it's not my style of play as I prefer as many players in the pot as possible preflop,


Ummm excuse me but.... WHAT THE ACTUAL F?

I would definitely say you are a better player than me, but I'll still stack you, but that's for another thread ;).



I've NEVER heard of the "I want as many players in the pot pre flop" strategy.
 

Goldfish

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As far as 3-betting a low-oriented rundown, it's far better than cold-calling with it. If he's got position on his opponent and can get it headsup, he can represent a number of flops as having hit him and use his positional advantage to take them down. And when he actually connects with the board, his opponents may assume he completely whiffed and pay him off.
Anthony just made my style of play look genius. I love this guy.
 

moose

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1. i don’t subscribe to the “you can never be too careful” philosophy at the poker table. There will always be draws and better hands out there. It’s plo. My philosophy is “I didn’t come here to fold”. 4 cards working together - Let’s goooooo.
3. My main game is big o so I will play wheel cards strong in plo so I don’t mess up my big o game.
3. If I 3 bet 3456, and nobody 4 bets I will assume nobody has aces in their hand. If an ace hits the flop I will bet representing That I have aces. If it turns to crap and I lose my buy in I will just rebuy. that’s the beauty of the cash game.

You play a different game that has different rules and you use that as justification for playing PLO badly?

LOL the only word that made any sense in your entire post was "rebuy"
 

Anthony Martino

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Ummm excuse me but.... WHAT THE ACTUAL F?

I would definitely say you are a better player than me, but I'll still stack you, but that's for another thread ;).



I've NEVER heard of the "I want as many players in the pot pre flop" strategy.

I've discussed it in my lengthy thread before multiple times. Generally I approach the game as a puller most of the time, while the massage pro is a pusher.

He is going to try and raise or reraise and take a positional advantage against 1-2 opponents. It allows him to run some more bluffs or win with less nutted hands than would be required facing 6 opponents.

I'm pretty much the exact opposite. Because PLO equities run so close preflop and change drastically post-flop, I prefer to try and keep pot sizes small preflop and let my opponents make bigger mistakes after the flop has fallen. I almost have no raising range preflop, unless I can get stacks in or create such a low SPR that post-flop I'm never folding. I want to pull players into the pots.

The more players in the pot, the harder it is for the aggressive players to run bluffs, because with 5-7 people seeing a flop, someone is going to have the goods most of the time. So it handcuffs them from running bluffs as much, and it also invites the weaker calling station players into the pots. They are more likely to pay off with their 9-high flushes or idiot ends of the straight, etc. when I have the goods.

Anthony just made my style of play look genius. I love this guy.

There's nothing wrong with an aggressive style of play in PLO that utilizes position and narrowed fields to allow you to run some bluffs or bet non-nutted hands that are still likely good given you aren't facing an entire table of opponents.

But it requires a table makeup that is going to permit you to get away with it (i.e. some games you'll still get 5 people multi-way in a 3 or 4-bet pot because they see a big pot and want a shot at it) and it also requires the roll to handle the variance because sometimes you're going to wind up getting stacks in preflop or on the flop given how aggressive some players are or their stack sizes (i.e. you're forcing yourself to go with hands with less equity pre or post-flop because of the pot sizes).
 

MatB

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If this was Holdem and you are on the button would you check AA with 7 other players in the pot?

This is pretty much what you are saying you are doing in PLO.

Each to his own. If it works for you then great, but ID rather be heads up or 3 handed on a flop and then take control. Or fold.
The 7 player method sounds like a cheap bomb pot. And hoping to smash flop. OR at least have good equity, eliminate a player or 4 then hope the other remaining players dont get there.
Almost the worst strategy ive ever heard in my illustrious poker playing life.




EDIT: GOLDFISH RULES APPLY. (GRA) "I am not a pro. and yes I will rebuy"
 

Anthony Martino

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If this was Holdem and you are on the button would you check AA with 7 other players in the pot?

This is pretty much what you are saying you are doing in PLO.

Each to his own. If it works for you then great, but ID rather be heads up or 3 handed on a flop and then take control. Or fold.
The 7 player method sounds like a cheap bomb pot. And hoping to smash flop. OR at least have good equity, eliminate a player or 4 then hope the other remaining players dont get there.
Almost the worst strategy ive ever heard in my illustrious poker playing life.




EDIT: GOLDFISH RULES APPLY. (GRA) "I am not a pro. and yes I will rebuy"

Of course not, in Hold Em the equity calculations are vastly different from PLO. In PLO even good Aces aren't a huge favorite unless your opponent is also paired, so you can't really compare the strategies of play from one to another. In Hold Em sometimes one pair is going to win, in PLO you're going to be running into a lot more sets, straights, flushes and full houses.

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