Death of Movie Theaters (1 Viewer)

I also ponder the fate of the studios. How does a movie making enterprise survive without their own streaming platform if the theaters are in a death spiral?

It seems plausible that the days of traditional movie production are coming to an end. Movie making was already a hugely risky business - one mega flop potentially bankrupts the maker. The public has high expectations. Justifiably, given the price point in a first run movie theater.

It makes sense for the streaming services to capture the production market. Maybe they buy a studio, but why? What is valuable about a movie studio that can't be easily recreated? This line of thought makes me think the big studios are walking dead.

There is no shortage of new material for consumers. Every streaming service is constantly producing their own content. It doesn't ever go to theaters. I see a lot of serialized "movies", not shown in a two hour block but split into chapters, one chapter a week. < think about the fortune spent making Game of Thrones, none of which was intended to be shown any place but on HBO. >

I can't help but think the writing is on the wall for it all - movie theaters and all the film makers.

Sad, but inevitable -=- DrStrange
 
DrStrange said:
I also ponder the fate of the studios. How does a movie making enterprise survive without their own streaming platform if the theaters are in a death spiral?

It seems plausible that the days of traditional movie production are coming to an end. Movie making was already a hugely risky business - one mega flop potentially bankrupts the maker. The public has high expectations. Justifiably, given the price point in a first run movie theater.

It makes sense for the streaming services to capture the production market. Maybe they buy a studio, but why? What is valuable about a movie studio that can't be easily recreated? This line of thought makes me think the big studios are walking dead.

There is no shortage of new material for consumers. Every streaming service is constantly producing their own content. It doesn't ever go to theaters. I see a lot of serialized "movies", not shown in a two hour block but split into chapters, one chapter a week. < think about the fortune spent making Game of Thrones, none of which was intended to be shown any place but on HBO. >

I can't help but think the writing is on the wall for it all - movie theaters and all the film makers.

Sad, but inevitable -=- DrStrange
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From an ROI decision, it should filter out the junk. Netflix, HBO, Showtime, Amazon, Apple might buy the good stuff.

What’s the monthly cost to run those streaming services? The marginal cost per customer has got to be super low once you’ve covered your costs. So how many monthly subscribers do you need to cover the expected studio and distribution profits? Theater profits are all in food, not film. And studios don’t see all the box-office revenue. Would love to see the numbers.

Could also do straight to video on 3 of those. I’d pay good money to watch a few key films at home right now. That I get WW84 for free this month is nothing to complain about.
 
I think the bread and butter of the cinema is the teenage date. It's a safe area, a shared experience, and quite frankly, it's easy. Theatres adding eating establishments also profit off the dinner part of dinner and a movie. They can overcharge, because kids have limited needs for their cash. The biggest theatre near us was routinely packed on a Friday/Saturday night.

Most PCF'ers are well beyond their teenage dating years.

Pre-COVID, AMC Theatres were basically breaking even, Cinemark was running a steady profit, and Imax was also running a steadily increasing profit.

I wouldn't want to invest in one of these companies (slow growth with no dividends), but they're not dead. Not until kids stop being kids.
 
As for the complaints that movies cost too much:
I feel the same way when I go. But really, what can you go do for two hours that will cost less? I just checked the cost of bowling, at a couple of local alleys. One quoted $70 for a lane for two hours, shoe rentals not included. The other place was $130 for two hours, shoes included.
Entertainment is expensive.
 
upNdown said:
As for the complaints that movies cost too much:
I feel the same way when I go. But really, what can you go do for two hours that will cost less? I just checked the cost of bowling, at a couple of local alleys. One quoted $70 for a lane for two hours, shoe rentals not included. The other place was $130 for two hours, shoes included.
Entertainment is expensive.
Click to expand...

Who is paying that kinda money to bowl ?! Jeez. I am ready for reverting to the past with drive in theaters and girls in skirts and roller skates bringing you out a burger and root beer.
 
upNdown said:
As for the complaints that movies cost too much:
I feel the same way when I go. But really, what can you go do for two hours that will cost less? I just checked the cost of bowling, at a couple of local alleys. One quoted $70 for a lane for two hours, shoe rentals not included. The other place was $130 for two hours, shoes included.
Entertainment is expensive.
Click to expand...

That's just it though. With wages being incredibly stagnant and every single place demanding more of your money to get the good or service you want, people are getting more picky overall with how they spend their dollars. The result is that inefficient business models (movie theatres for one) then have to try and squeeze more blood from a stone. They do this by making damn sure if you come to a theatre only once or twice a year, they're going to get as much out of you as they can.
 
upNdown said:
As for the complaints that movies cost too much:
I feel the same way when I go. But really, what can you go do for two hours that will cost less? I just checked the cost of bowling, at a couple of local alleys. One quoted $70 for a lane for two hours, shoe rentals not included. The other place was $130 for two hours, shoes included.
Entertainment is expensive.
Click to expand...
"Midnight Bowling" at an alley near me costs 13 a head, a group of three or more gets their own lane (went there with the kids and some of their friends a few times, 6 of us got 2 lanes) and the lane was yours for 3 hours. Other alleys near me still have 10 cent frame day. Bowling by me found ways to make people good deals. Movie theaters continued to raise their prices during that same time period.
 
slisk250 said:
I’m not a movie guy
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tenor-6.gif
 
Great discussion.

Working security for a movie theater near a large city, I got to see the "back of house" action at a theater and learned quite a bit about the business model.

I thought studios paid the theater to show the films. In reality, the theaters bid on the films before they're out. They pay big money to screen the films in the hope that a popular film will sell tickets. If a film is good, ticket sales will make back what the theater paid to get the film. If the film flops at the box office, the theaters get stuck with some of the loss.

The only thing the theater makes money on are the concessions -- those overpriced drinks, popcorn and candy. That said, the manager told me that this 10-screen theater was making $1 million profit per month.

The manager, an older man who got his first theater job in Texas in the 1970s and once met Jimmy Stewart at a premier, summed it up politely:

"The product is not good."

That's theater manager shorthand for, "The movies suck."

I also learned that theaters are big targets for scam artists -- slip-and-fall acrobats and people who run every variety of scam inside the business, including recording the movies on opening night. (We were cautioned never to allow anyone to photograph the movie posters, as these are sent via emaill to Hong Kong where they'll be made into the covers of bootleg copies.)
 
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dennis63 said:
The only thing the theater makes money on are the concessions -- those overpriced drinks, popcorn and candy.
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Yep, this was the model even back 25 years ago when I worked at MANN, they pushed us as employees to always reach a higher and higher "Per Cap" on the concessions, at the time, they wanted us to make ~$1.92/person, I think near my end of the job it might have been as high as $2.15/person. So this means anyone walking into the movie WITHOUT hitting the concessions was lowering our Per Cap. We were instructed to 'up sell' ("It's only 50c more for a large") and during my time they introduced the combos, which of course took off and is now commonplace. I remember getting an award for highest seller on the combos during an internal contest. :) There was even an opening line we were instructed to say to every customer, after ~25 years I'm starting to forget it, but it was like "Welcome to MANN theatre, would you like to try the fill-in-the-blank combo?"

Major movie openings that I remember are ID4, Titanic, Scream 2, Spawn, to name a few.

One funny memory: we were opening for the big 4th of July weekend with ID4 was opening and during the rush to set the front concessions, the power went out, and the guy managing the popcorn machine just yelled, "The popcorn machine is still working!" as it was literally in the middle of a popping batch, so of course the popcorn was still popping. It made us all laugh as we were freaking out over the power.... it did come back on quickly.
 
I know a guy who worked for a local theater chain in St. Louis 20 years ago, and he said their popcorn machines were basically for show. They would pop small batches in there, but most of their popcorn was made in a central location for the whole chain, and they had garbage bags full of popcorn stacked up in the hallway which is what they actually sold. He said the funny thing was that the fresh popped batches they made were actually terrible and the stuff in the garbage bags was great for some reason.
 
Fresh popped is more than show. It's an aroma that sells.

Years ago I was part of a group that hosted a gaming convention at the University. Food sold rather consistently, and predictably (lunch, dinner). While the University had a popcorn machine we could use, we were prohibited from selling the popcorn. It had to be offered for free. Nobody wanted to cut into our sales by offering free popcorn.

On Sunday (the smallest day of the convention) I was in charge of concessions. I popped up a single batch, and gave it away for free.

It was the biggest day for concessions by far (3x the sales of any other day iirc). The smell of popcorn makes people hungry.
 
One Eyed Dollar said:
I know a guy who worked for a local theater chain in St. Louis 20 years ago, and he said their popcorn machines were basically for show. They would pop small batches in there, but most of their popcorn was made in a central location for the whole chain, and they had garbage bags full of popcorn stacked up in the hallway which is what they actually sold. He said the funny thing was that the fresh popped batches they made were actually terrible and the stuff in the garbage bags was great for some reason.
Click to expand...
Ours was always popped fresh in-house, one thing I did learn was the oil used to pop the corn was WAY worse health-wise than the "butter topping", so people saying no to the extra topping wasn't really saving them the heart attack....
They DID try to sell 'air popped' for a while and that was shipped in, since it couldn't be in the oil poppers. But to this day the smell of "old" popcorn makes me ill, and every night during closing we would fill trash bags full of popcorn and just throw them away in the dumpsters. At one theatre, the homeless would be outside waiting and we'd find the bags under stairs/walkways half eaten....

Some fun shit we did as "kids" working there: the popper should have the oil button pressed 2-3 times per batch, but we often made "special" batches with 8-10 doses of oil, it literally came out of the popper glowing yellow............. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO: That and someone figured out the soda syrup boxes had 'quick release' valves on the connections to the dispenser, so you could pop that out and drink straight syrup, and we had Pepsi, so I had Mountain Dew 'shots' to keep me going through the closing shifts.........

This is memory lane for sure.... ;)
 
Also, fun fact:
I worked at "The Gate" multiplex in Cork Ireland after college, and was the first US employee (they had opened ~6 months prior to my arrival in Ireland). So I've worked at 3 different theatres in 2 countries.. :) (And yes, I have MANY movie posters from that era..... ;) )
 
Back in the 50s they introduced 3D as a gimmick to get people back in the theatres. Then they tried smell-o-vision and stuff like that. I think people will always enjoy a night out (dinner and a movie), away from the kids. Home theatres didn't kill the movie industry before, just wait for the next Harry Potter/Star Wars/etc. I could see fewer movies produced, because only the blockbusters will make $$.
 
nitzilla said:
Ours was always popped fresh in-house, one thing I did learn was the oil used to pop the corn was WAY worse health-wise than the "butter topping", so people saying no to the extra topping wasn't really saving them the heart attack....
They DID try to sell 'air popped' for a while and that was shipped in, since it couldn't be in the oil poppers. But to this day the smell of "old" popcorn makes me ill, and every night during closing we would fill trash bags full of popcorn and just throw them away in the dumpsters. At one theatre, the homeless would be outside waiting and we'd find the bags under stairs/walkways half eaten....

Some fun shit we did as "kids" working there: the popper should have the oil button pressed 2-3 times per batch, but we often made "special" batches with 8-10 doses of oil, it literally came out of the popper glowing yellow............. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO: That and someone figured out the soda syrup boxes had 'quick release' valves on the connections to the dispenser, so you could pop that out and drink straight syrup, and we had Pepsi, so I had Mountain Dew 'shots' to keep me going through the closing shifts.........

This is memory lane for sure.... ;)
Click to expand...
Yeah I’m not a popcorn guy either. No movies, barely watch any TV. Lots of better things to do with my time.
 
I still like going to see a movie - especially something where the sound and special effects makes the theater experience worthwhile. Watching the opening of Saving Private Ryan is easily one of the most intense entertainment experiences that I've ever had.

I like the changes of the last few years
- Reserve seats online so no worries about getting there early or getting stuck in a lousy seat
- Big comfy recliners - I'm a bigger guy so this has been great
- Option to eat a meal there - it's a nice change when we want - time it so you're finishing up when previews end = perfect

I've been married 28 years, movies were mainly just an option for a date every month or two.

My main complaint has been the movies. I don't know how many more super hero movies I care to see.

I hope theaters are able to survive covid. It's something that my wife and I still enjoy.
 
From the linked article below:

Theater view:
An exhibition executive who asked not to be named so as to speak freely... stressed that theaters do not expect the hybrid model to be a “precedent” for how the business operates going forward, adding it could be less likely for such a model to become standard in the future when there are a greater number of films in the pipeline.
Click to expand...

Warner view:
“After considering all available options and the projected state of moviegoing throughout 2021, we came to the conclusion that this was the best way for WarnerMedia’s motion picture business to navigate the next 12 months,” WarnerMedia chief Jason Kilar said in a statement.
Click to expand...

Stil... more to come.

https://gizmodo.com/amc-is-pissed-1845804062
 
Legend5555 said:
So AMC theaters are mad at WB for putting their 2021 movie releases on HBO Max concurrent to theater release.

AMC rightfully has to look out for themselves, but the pandemic has only hastened what I believe was going to happen anyway. The theater model was bound to die out IMO. I don't think it will ever go away, but I think it will become more of a boutique experience.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

AMC were greedy fcks for years. You reap what you sow.

The price of movie tickets does not represent the value you get for the entertainment. It’s totally disconnected, especially if you consider the amount of mediocre movies out out each year.

But, MoviePass showed that people still love going to the movies. It’s just not worth going at the current prices they charge.

I want the theater to succeed. No way I’m watching Top Gun 2 on my TV wtf! I love going to see a good flick.

But the entire industry needs to be restructured and a price shockwave needs to work it’s way through the whole supply chain. This will hopefully be a catalyst to do so.
 
I can only speak for the UK, but I don't think there's that much danger of them going bust, personally. Many of the 'lower quality' cinemas over here offer tickets for £4 to combat the extortionate prices of the big boys like Odeon; you can even get unlimited viewings via a membership card which, when I was a member a couple of years ago, was £16 a month.

I also believe that, with the way the industry is going (m0ar mind-numbing explosions and the constant churn of unimaginative, tedious comic book franchises), people genuinely want to see these films on the big screen with incredible sound.

Likewise, if these films go straight to PPV, are people going to want to pay cinema-style prices (imagine Hollywood would have to charge these sorts of prices to make their money back?) to watch them on their laptops, smart phones and TVs?

Perfect is example is the new Bond film: there's absolutely no way I'm paying more than £5 to watch a film like that from the comfort of my home. The likelihood, however, is that they'll probably charge £8 or over...
 
Very interested in this topic, but not a lot of time to type. Theaters have to rethink the marketing strategy. Time to develop a new plan and reevaluate your target market.
Obviously I don’t have the answer, but I’m sure it’s out there. You have to get creative quickly because time is not on your side. Covid stole any excess time you may have had.
 
shorticus said:
Theaters have to rethink the marketing strategy. Time to develop a new plan and reevaluate your target market.
Click to expand...

They could do that.

Or industry leaders could jack up prices for short term gains once the lockdowns end and people are excited to get back to the theaters, walk away with millions of dollars in salary and conveniently timed sold stock before the bubble bursts, pay off journalists to write articles about how millennials killed movie theaters, and leave a crumbled industry that will receive billions of our tax paid government bailout money.

Gee, I wonder which one they will pick.
 

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