CPC Mold history considerations?

Justin Olson

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Find shuffle stacks

the sound and feel and stackability are all slightly different

I use an a-mold set in my rotation. Have a B diamond mold set that I use at a buddy’s place.
ordered a scrown set that will be here this spring
Have a b diamond set that will be here early summer.
am considering a jockey mold design for later

all about what you enjoy the sound and feel of
 

Sprouty

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if my wife discovers the cost difference :bag:

Honestly, don't ever let her find out the cost of chips. I had a friend ask about cost of chips in front of my wife. Like an idiot I answered. I'll never tell my next wife.

leaning toward scrown, lcrown, diasq

There is some height variation in my scrowns, I'd say maybe a half a chip difference in stacks of 20 between the shortest/tallest. Not enough of a difference to make me regret my selection, it's still the best mold for my design IMO.

I also think there is a possibility that once they are a bit more broken in that the variations will possibly lessen as high spots/imperfections wear down. This is speculation though, would love to hear if anyone knows or has opinions.
 

Coyote

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From my limited personal experience, and among only the few types of chips that have landed in my hands, the rank as regards to making music is:
Leaded THCs (even not inlayed)
CPC HHRs
Unleaded THCs
Unleaded (?) "Paulson Chips" mold
CPC Diamond Square (minimum size inlays)
CPC A-molds (with max size inlays, though)
Unleaded RHCs
CPC FDLs

When it comes to CPCs, a lot changes in relation to the above ranking with each "color", ie the substance used.
Brass-flake free Retro and DG colors (however beautiful visually) are lighter and have an inferior sound to "weighed" colors with brass flakes.
That all having been said, I 'm a visual type of guy. :)
 

pipdenny

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I'm gonna make an ad in the classifieds for shuffle stacks on inlayed CPC colds. @Quicksilver-75 I'll send you a PM regarding the HHR's, thank you!

What I'll do tonight (and I don't know if this will yield any sort of relevant results) is take my mold sample set and do a blind test after lightly handling each one and setting into piles of 'yes' and 'no'. I'll do this a few times and see which ones are consistently in either pile.
Again, this will probably be a waste of time but I figure it's something to do while I wait to get some shuffle stacks in hand.

Thanks everyone for wonderful insight as always!

Side note: would it be an appropriate request to ask David to hold on to my chips after production to wait for winter time to ship? It gets so incredibly hot where I live (SoCal) and I've had some issues with chips warping in the mail. Anyone ever do this before? I may not have to make this request depending on which mold I choose and the production schedule. Is it relatively easy to 'unwarp' CPC chips like it is for paulsons, and is this a legitimate concern?
 

JustDave

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From my limited personal experience, and among only the few types of chips that have landed in my hands, the rank as regards to making music is:
Leaded THCs (even not inlayed)
CPC HHRs
Unleaded THCs
Unleaded (?) "Paulson Chips" mold
CPC Diamond Square (minimum size inlays)
CPC A-molds (with max size inlays, though)
Unleaded RHCs
CPC FDLs

When it comes to CPCs, a lot changes in relation to the above ranking with each "color", ie the substance used.
Brass-flake free Retro and DG colors (however beautiful visually) are lighter and have an inferior sound to "weighed" colors with brass flakes.
That all having been said, I 'm a visual type of guy. :)
Paulson 'metalics' sound terrible to me(they also feel like sandpaper for the record).
 

pipdenny

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A few observations:
  • diasqr has a higher number of mold defects (hence a higher reject rate, lower production rate, and resulting higher price). Some defects are considered acceptable.
  • H-mold (and Roman mold, if buying used) has a higer number of warped chips aka spinners (partial heat issue, partial mold design issue)
  • FDL mold has glossy inlays which is bothersome to some
  • Hourglass mold has a very lightweight feel (some compare it to a cheap plastic feel)
Personally, I prefer all six of the concentric ring molds over the non-ring molds: jockey, diasqr, B-diamond, cirsqr, Horsehead. and A-crest.... and probably in that order -- imo, they look better, sound better, and feel better. I own sets/racks of diasqr, A-mold, FDL, and scrowns, although I have a large number of chips of each mold type (over 400 chips in ASM/CPC sample sets). Jockey mold will likely be my next set purchase. The circsq mold is probably the most underrated in both looks and feel -- it's not nearlly as busy irl as it sometimes appears in photos. Horsehead, hourglass and scroll are all very busy to my eye
.

Do any of the mold defects of the diasqr affect the final product (i.e. the chips I will actually receive) in any way. In other words, are the diasqr chips in any way of lower quality than any of the others?
 

Shaggy

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Do any of the mold defects of the diasqr affect the final product (i.e. the chips I will actually receive) in any way. In other words, are the diasqr chips in any way of lower quality than any of the others?

I would say, no. As BG pointed out, the scrap rate is built into the extra cost. The defect chips won't make it to you... at least that appears to be the case with my set.
 

allforcharity

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I would say, no. As BG pointed out, the scrap rate is built into the extra cost. The defect chips won't make it to you... at least that appears to be the case with my set.

Sheesh, I just had an epiphany. I always wondered why there was such a difference in base costs between the molds. So the higher cost ones have a higher rejection rate. Makes perfect sense now. I'm embarrassed to say that I never figured this out by myself, and I never thought to ask.
 

viet rounder

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These are precisely the type of responses I was looking for.

Some choose molds to fit theme of the set (@Shaggy with a vintage look)

Some choose molds for feel. @LotsOfChips I will maybe put in a wanted ad for a shuffle stack of each mold I am interested in. I do have the sample set that @JustDave mentioned, but the only repeating mold therein is the circlesquare!

@allforcharity I've heard the same about the jokey mold, but I'm not sure I quite like the looks of it. When you say performance, do you mean durability? Or maybe more like weight/sound/feel?

I had no idea that some molds have known potential issues, as @viet rounder mentions with the height variations.
Are there other things like this I should know about that would influence my decision?

I will of course ultimately choose a mold that I personally like best, but I want to gather as much info as I can.

@BigOlPapaBear I saw that link posted in another thread last night. After perusing, I saw learned that TRK is a Los Angeles company? If so, that may be a nice choice for my set!

Here is a rough mockup of my inlay. I sent the source files to J5 to help me finalize. (Van, pronounced "vawn" is an ancient armenian city and also the name of my baby son)
So far I am leaning toward scrown, lcrown, diasq, and mayyybbe jockey if I get my hands on a shuffle stack and fall in love. Also amold if my wife discovers the cost difference :bag:

I don’t know enough about chips to determine if a particular mold would “fit” with this theme.

View attachment 615643

That inlay is just begging to be on the DSQ or H mold. Nice job
 
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BGinGA

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Do any of the mold defects of the diasqr affect the final product (i.e. the chips I will actually receive) in any way. In other words, are the diasqr chips in any way of lower quality than any of the others?
There will be an occasional misshaped diamond or square, hardly noticeable. Adds to the character, imo. Take a look at some gallery pics, I'm sure you'll spot a few (now that you know what to look for). Most people don't even notice.
 

LinkyBabe

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Sheesh, I just had an epiphany. I always wondered why there was such a difference in base costs between the molds. So the higher cost ones have a higher rejection rate. Makes perfect sense now. I'm embarrassed to say that I never figured this out by myself, and I never thought to ask.
You'll find answers to those types of questions in this thread. Definitely worth a read if you haven't already looked at it...

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/cpc-general-discussion-thread.3879/
 

pipdenny

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Update:

I contacted David at CPC and he got together inlayed shuffle stacks (10 chips) of each of these molds for me to purchase:

A-crest
B-diamond
Diamond Square
Circle square
Jockey
Small crown
Large crown (only 5 available)
Fleur-de-lys
HHR
E+C (only 5 available)

So awesome! I’ll play around with these as I get to finalizing my order. I will report my findings/opinions, however helpful they may or may not be to others.

After my order I plan to make these available on loan for others who need help deciding on a mold.
 

Highli99

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Update:

I contacted David at CPC and he got together inlayed shuffle stacks (10 chips) of each of these molds for me to purchase:

A-crest
B-diamond
Diamond Square
Circle square
Jockey
Small crown
Large crown (only 5 available)
Fleur-de-lys
HHR
E+C (only 5 available)

So awesome! I’ll play around with these as I get to finalizing my order. I will report my findings/opinions, however helpful they may or may not be to others.

After my order I plan to make these available on loan for others who need help deciding on a mold.
I've got an extra shuffle stack of cards and dice mold if you want that.
 

pipdenny

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I've got an extra shuffle stack of cards and dice mold if you want that.
I excluded cards/dice, plain, Hmold, hourglass, and scroll molds from my inquiry with Dave because I really didn't think I would want those for future orders.
But, having them may be nice for having a more complete set! I'll send you a PM. Thank you!
 

pipdenny

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Update: Inlaid shuffle stacks are in! I'm gonna play with these over the next few days/weeks/however long it takes to decide on a mold!
I plan to do many "blindfolded" shuffle tests so that the colors/looks don't affect my judgment of feel/sound. I'll post my opinions in the off-chance that it helps anyone.

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Top row: Plain (I didn't order these, but I think David popped them in there to complete the rack), CSQ, Jockey, DiaSq
Second row: Lcrown, E+C, scrown
Third row: Amold, Bmold
and finally, HHR
 

BGinGA

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Update: Inlaid shuffle stacks are in! I'm gonna play with these over the next few days/weeks/however long it takes to decide on a mold!
I plan to do many "blindfolded" shuffle tests so that the colors/looks don't affect my judgment of feel/sound. I'll post my opinions in the off-chance that it helps anyone.

View attachment 622093

View attachment 622094View attachment 622095

Top row: Plain (I didn't order these, but I think David popped them in there to complete the rack), CSQ, Jockey, DiaSq
Second row: Lcrown, E+C, scrown
Third row: Amold, Bmold
and finally, HHR
My 'top 3' predictions for your blind testing:

jockey, diasqr, B-dia (no particular order)

Enjoy the experience!
 

pipdenny

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Some metrics in case they help anyone. I may start a new thread for this, as this thread kind of changed direction a bit.

Weights of 10 chips:

Jockey: 85g
DiaSq: 84g
CSQ: 87g
A-crest: 80g
B-dia: 86g
scrown: 87g
HHR: 83g
E+C: 86g
Lcrown: 85g
nomold: 87g

For reference:

Matsui Radisson: 119g
Paulson RHC: 97g
Bud Jones San Jaun: 108g
High Stakes Ceramics: 95g

I loaned out my digital caliper to my father-in-law, but once I get it back I'll take some measurements of each chip. For now, I can tell that some mold barrels will not fit into a chipco rack, and other will have some wiggle room. The scrown and lcrown are also the only molds that touch the bottom of the racks due to their smaller diameter. Again, I'll get some specifics when I get my caliper back.

Also of note, the Lcrown had WILD differences in widths within the
10 chips I acquired. As you can see, the 5 thickest chips stack half a chip higher than the other 5 chips. Is this typical?

IMG_2968.JPEG



Another note: Two of the diasq chips had the same exact defect, as seen below. Is this a typical defect for this mold? Are these just because they are samples?

1611880614895.png


This are just initial observations I made upon first inspection. I'll update with shuffle and feel-related observations, again perhaps in a new thread?




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Sprouty

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Some metrics in case they help anyone. I may start a new thread for this, as this thread kind of changed direction a bit.

Weights of 10 chips:

Jockey: 85g
DiaSq: 84g
CSQ: 87g
A-crest: 80g
B-dia: 86g
scrown: 87g
HHR: 83g
E+C: 86g
Lcrown: 85g
nomold: 87g

For reference:

Matsui Radisson: 119g
Paulson RHC: 97g
Bud Jones San Jaun: 108g
High Stakes Ceramics: 95g

I loaned out my digital caliper to my father-in-law, but once I get it back I'll take some measurements of each chip. For now, I can tell that some mold barrels will not fit into a chipco rack, and other will have some wiggle room. The scrown and lcrown are also the only molds that touch the bottom of the racks due to their smaller diameter. Again, I'll get some specifics when I get my caliper back.

Also of note, the Lcrown had WILD differences in widths within the
10 chips I acquired. As you can see, the 5 thickest chips stack half a chip higher than the other 5 chips. Is this typical?

View attachment 624445


Another note: Two of the diasq chips had the same exact defect, as seen below. Is this a typical defect for this mold? Are these just because they are samples?

View attachment 624464

This are just initial observations I made upon first inspection. I'll update with shuffle and feel-related observations, again perhaps in a new thread?




View attachment 624446View attachment 624447View attachment 624449View attachment 624450View attachment 624452View attachment 624454View attachment 624455View attachment 624456View attachment 624457View attachment 624458View attachment 624459View attachment 624460View attachment 624461View attachment 624462
Colors affect weights as well.
 

Sprouty

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Ah yes you're right! These weight measurements might be somewhat useless then :banghead:
I'll leave it out there in case the info is useful in any capacity in the future.

Thank you!

The white blank shuffle stacks would be useful in this case. I wonder if they have been weighed before.
 

pipdenny

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The white blank shuffle stacks would be useful in this case. I wonder if they have been weighed before.
Heyohh! Funny you should mention this. David initially mistakenly sent me the blank white shuffle stacks. He then sent me these inlaid ones and I am awaiting my SFRB from usps to return the blanks. I’ll bust out my scale and weight those tonight and post an update!
Great idea!
 

warma

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Also of note, the Lcrown had WILD differences in widths within the
10 chips I acquired. As you can see, the 5 thickest chips stack half a chip higher than the other 5 chips. Is this typical?
I saw minor variation with my set. Shown below: 8 barrels pulled without thought and double-stacked on a level surface with a level on top. I find when putting them in the CPC racks, they are snug. In a few cases, I had to swap half of a too-tight barrel with half of a looser barrel to get them in, and easily worked. Not an issue for me.
1611883127479.jpeg
 

pipdenny

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I saw minor variation with my set. Shown below: 8 barrels pulled without thought and double-stacked on a level surface with a level on top. I find when putting them in the CPC racks, they are snug. In a few cases, I had to swap half of a too-tight barrel with half of a looser barrel to get them in, and easily worked. Not an issue for me.
View attachment 624499
Yeah I figured that once the thicker and thinner ones were mixed together, it would all even out. Great info, thanks for the pic!
 

pipdenny

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Update with white blank mold samples

Jockey: 96g
DiaSq: 94g
CSQ: 96g
A-crest: 96g
B-dia: 99g
scrown: 94g
HHR: 95g
E+C: only 5 chips available - 49g
Lcrown: only 5 chips available - 47g
nomold: 95g
FDL: 94g

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BGinGA

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^ moral of story:

If wanting custom clay chips weighing over 9.5 grams, order CPC hotstamps using weighted colors. For maximum weight, go B-mold.

Inlays displace clay with lighter material, and no brass flakes means lighter chips.
 

pipdenny

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^ moral of story:

If wanting custom clay chips weighing over 9.5 grams, order CPC hotstamps using weighted colors. For maximum weight, go B-mold.

Inlays displace clay with lighter material, and no brass flakes means lighter chips.
I was surprised to see just how much difference the inlays make! Some inlaid chips had dayglo spots of differing sizes, which also would make them lighter, but still, quite the difference.

If anyone has any suggestions of different measurements I could take that might be useful, please let me know. I may also record video of the sounds each one makes when shuffling/stacking from a splash pot/tossing in a bet/etc, although the differences would be very subtle and possibly indistinguishable through the audio.
 

LeGold

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Another note: Two of the diasq chips had the same exact defect, as seen below. Is this a typical defect for this mold? Are these just because they are samples?

View attachment 624464
I noticed defects (different than the one you're showing) on several of my new DSQ chips. Haven't looked closely to compare them or count how many chips are affected, will do it when the rest the order arrives.
 

pipdenny

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My 'top 3' predictions for your blind testing:

jockey, diasqr, B-dia (no particular order)

Enjoy the experience!

After many many hours of shuffling these samples, I found that my top ones in terms of feel alone are csq, jockey, a-mold, and diasq, in no particular order.

CSQ felt the best out of the box and it wasn't even close. It was as if they had been pre-worn to buttery smoothness. However, the look itself just seems too busy to my eyes. It's a fantastic mold and felt the best to me.

The roughest textures were definitely HHR, B-dia, E+C, A-mold, and jockey. A-mold and Jockey felt the best of these to me, and after shuffling the ever-living crap out of the jockey, they became worn down and are now extremely smooth and silky. I would imagine this would be the case if I shuffled the others as much as I did the jockey, but the look of Jockey grew on me big time; there is just something so subtle and clean about it and not so in-your-face as the a-mold, b-dia, and HHR.

Diasq sounds quite a bit different from the rest, but still very very enjoyable to shuffle. In terms of looks, this was my favorite going into this experiment.

Scrown and Lcrown were the least enjoyable to shuffle, which is a shame for me because I love the way they look.

Ultimately I am going with Jockey. I felt like it had the perfect amount of texture (not too rough, not too smooth) and I disliked the look at first but they grew on me the most out of the lot. I think I'd be a happy camper with any of these molds, but Jockey is the winner for me after this little experiment.
I would have NEVER chosen this mold on looks alone without doing this shuffle test. I'm glad I got my hands on some, they have become my runaway favorite by quite a margin!

Anyway, I don't suspect that this post would be terribly useful for anyone, but just thought I'd share :)
 
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