Tourney Combining Tables (1 Viewer)

[rjbf65]

Question for the tourney experts.

Say you are running a tourney with 80 players and 8 players per table and you have your tables numbered 1-10. As knockouts happen there is a constant rebalancing of tables. A table gets down to 6 so a table of 8 loses a player. Every time I've been in these types of tourneys it has always been the player to the right of the dealer gets moved. But what if that player happens to have a really big chip stack? It kind of puts the entire table that lost that player at a disadvantage for the remainder of the tourney in my opinion. Is this ever a consideration at tourneys you've played in? I've seen at times when it gets down to 2 or 3 tables when a vast majority of the total chips are at one table. Is this ever a concern? And how is it avoided?
An idea I had would be to move one of three players right of the button, whichever one has the middle of the road stack of the 3 players at the time. Thoughts? Ideas?

 

[BGinGA]

When balancing tables, typical rules move the player who is destined to be the next big blind (regardless of stack size), and that player moves into the vacant seat that is next in line to be the big blind at the destination table (if more than one open seat). If more than one table is 'player-heavy', there should be a predetermined order of table movement/breakdown that is used to determine which table's player moves. Totally random movement of players without regard to stack size is key to maintaining equality for all players. Even if applying it seems to be unfair - it isn't.

When breaking down to three (or fewer) tables, all seats (at all tables) should be redrawn. This provides a totally random opportunity for all players to be seated at any one of the remaining tables, and at any seat location. A random re-draw is more important than the occasional imbalance of stacks sizes or total chips in play at one table that may be created by a totally random distribution.

 

[rjbf65]

Thank you for the reply. I didn't realize the redraw rule when getting down to 3 and 2 tables.

 

[Gunnar]

Thank you for the reply. I didn't realize the redraw rule when getting down to 3 and 2 tables.

I personally don´t see this rule often. I have played in quite a few 70+ tournaments and there has never witnessed a redraw.

 

[Trihonda]

I personally don´t see this rule often. I have played in quite a few 70+ tournaments and there has never witnessed a redraw.

I've played in regular tourneys with 6+ tables, and never seen a redraw until the final table. Maybe it's a regional thing?

 

[BGinGA]

I personally don´t see this rule often. I have played in quite a few 70+ tournaments and there has never witnessed a redraw.

I've played in regular tourneys with 6+ tables, and never seen a redraw until the final table. Maybe it's a regional thing?

Below are the current RRoP v11 rules pertinent to the discussion (note rule #18):

SECTION 15 - TOURNAMENTS

14. As players are eliminated, tables are broken in a pre-set order, with players from the broken tables assigned to empty seats at other tables.

15. In button games, if a player is needed to move from a table to balance tables, the player due for the big blind will be automatically selected to move, and will be given the earliest seat due for the big blind if more than one seat is open.

16. New players to a table as a result of balancing tables are dealt in immediately unless they are in the small blind or button position, where they must wait until the button has passed to the player on their left.

17. The number of players at each table will be kept reasonably balanced by the transfer of a player as needed. With more than six tables, table size will be kept within two players. With six tables or less, table size will be kept within one player.

18. In all events, there is a redraw for seating when the field is reduced to three tables, two tables, and one table. (Redrawing at three tables is not mandatory in small tournaments with only four or five starting tables.)

The current TDA rules (* see link below) no longer require seating redraws at any point in a tournament, but they do require a two-step blind process to determine player placement when breaking tables according to a preset order. The TDA rules for how to move players to balance tables are the same as RRoP above.


* http://www.pokertda.com/wp-content/...ules-2015-Version-1.0-full-longform-PDF-1.pdf

 

[BGinGA]

Thank you for the reply. I didn't realize the redraw rule when getting down to 3 and 2 tables.

There are a number of major poker tournament venues who still use this rule (or a variation of it, based on total field size), even though the current TDA rules no longer specify redraws of any kind. The APT (Asian Poker Tour), WSOP (World Series of Poker), Mohegan Sun, and many other major casino properties have house rules in effect that still use the redraw rules outlined in RRoP.

Without doing extensive research, I'd venture that more major tournament venues use it than not.

 

[TexRex]

We use the table up rule from www.HomePokerTourney.com. That rule says that if you lose a player you replace that player with a player in the same position. For example, if T1 loses a player 2 behind the dealer, that is the person from the other table that comes. If it's the next UTG, that's who comes. All the groups I've played with have used that rule. I've seen this rule work with up to 8 tables. We don't stop play at the table (max of 3 tables for me) unless it's the BB coming, though we probably should. We do not move either of the permanent dealers (2 per table) and will adjust one space to keep the dealers in place. My dealers play, and I consider them critical components as a lot of players are not good at dealing. The system works well for us. Other rules, like the next BB, would work equally well. The most important thing is to announce in advance what rule you will use and then use the rule consistently.

We re-draw for the final table. I use seating chips that are drawn randomly. When I have 3 tables, when players are KO'd, we gather their seating chips. When it comes time to go from 3 to 2 tables, we stop play. Those at T3 draw from the collection of seating chips and go take that seat. That assures that those at T3 are pretty evenly divided between T1 and T2.

 

[Trihonda]

I let my blinds app handle it. Works pretty well. It allows me to play the game more. It does initial table assignments randomly as Well. Prints out a nice list of seating assignments for folks to refer to when buying in.

 

[Poker Zombie]

The Move the next Big Blind to the worst possible seat as BGinGA pointed out makes the most sence to me, for balancing tables. It is a TDA rule (thus used by most poker rooms). If I had the room to do a redraw for final table seats, I would. Unfortunately, movement in my living room is very tight if even one player remains seated, so players at the final table remain in position while the second table draws randomly for new seats.

I also allow tables to play at a difference of 2 players, and rebalance when one table is 3 (or more) shorter than the most populous table. This is again because movement is tight in my room, and there are times in a tournament where players are knocked out, one after the next, in rapid succession. If you're dealing with a 10 table game, you are going to see a lot of moving around carrying chips, not playing poker.

 

[Mr Tree]

We use the table up rule from www.HomePokerTourney.com. That rule says that if you lose a player you replace that player with a player in the same position. For example, if T1 loses a player 2 behind the dealer, that is the person from the other table that comes. If it's the next UTG, that's who comes. All the groups I've played with have used that rule. I've seen this rule work with up to 8 tables. We don't stop play at the table (max of 3 tables for me) unless it's the BB coming, though we probably should. We do not move either of the permanent dealers (2 per table) and will adjust one space to keep the dealers in place. My dealers play, and I consider them critical components as a lot of players are not good at dealing. The system works well for us. Other rules, like the next BB, would work equally well. The most important thing is to announce in advance what rule you will use and then use the rule consistently.

We re-draw for the final table. I use seating chips that are drawn randomly. When I have 3 tables, when players are KO'd, we gather their seating chips. When it comes time to go from 3 to 2 tables, we stop play. Those at T3 draw from the collection of seating chips and go take that seat. That assures that those at T3 are pretty evenly divided between T1 and T2.

This is more or less exactly what I do.

 

[CdnBeerLover]

We use the table up rule from www.HomePokerTourney.com. That rule says that if you lose a player you replace that player with a player in the same position.

This is what we do. Works fine for us.

 

[pokerplayingpisces]

This is what we do. Works fine for us.

Yeah, I do the same thing, and have all players redraw, when we get down to the Final Table!