Check my line...squeeze play in Live $1/$1 nlhe (1 Viewer)

[grebe]

OK, this should be an interesting one...

Sitting 10 handed in a fairly new game. I have played with button a couple times before and remember him being kinda bad...maybe a bit of a calling station. He has donk bet at least once since we have sat I think with top pair. The initial raiser is new to me, but seems to at least have a clue, but I have seen him limp, so maybe not. It's early.

We are sitting on $230 or so...in the game for $200. Button has a little less than $200...maybe about 175. same with initial raiser.

-2 limps to initial raiser in low jack, he makes it $7
-CO calls
-BTN calls
-SB calls
-HERO on BB has

EDIT: Since I said it was a squeeze play in the title, I should go ahead and add that I raise to $30 and fold out everyone but the button.

Flop is interesting:



Action on HERO

 

[warma]

3 call the raise, 2 limpers with the option to follow… A weak Ace and the nut Diamond draw?

Don’t know the crowd, but family pots make for great suck-outs; this pot could get big and ugly and you won’t know who’s ahead until the reveal. As you said, this should be interesting.

Do you call if the limpers raise? What flop, aside from , or gets you to stay?

I’d normally fold, unless I was in a gambling mood.

[Edit: I hit send before I saw the flop.]

 

[Santa123]

My initial thought is: why squeezing with A3s.
In general I think people 3 bet with A low card suited to balance there 3 betting range and using the Ace as a blocker.
I would 3 bet to a single raise from late position and no or 1 call.
My thought to squeezing in your situation is a widening my 3 betting range to ATs+ and 88+ or something like that.

How ever your squeeze worked in that hand and I would continue with with a standard play of 1/3 or a bit more on the flop.

 

[grebe]

Do you call if the limpers raise? What flop, aside from , or gets you to stay?

No...I fold to anybody's 4 bet.

I’d normally fold, unless I was in a gambling mood.

You would fold A3s to a single bet preflop? If so, we are on different pages.

 

[grebe]

My initial thought is: why squeezing with A3s.

to thin the field, take the dead money down without a fight, and to represent a strong range when we will play out of position.

In general I think people 3 bet with A low card suited to balance there 3 betting range and using the Ace as a blocker.
I would 3 bet to a single raise from late position and no or 1 call.

-There is more dead money with all the limps and calls though....and many players telling you "my hand is OK, not great". Except for initial raiser, his range is uncapped until he acts again.

 

[Taghkanic]

I think the squeeze is OK, if one plays carefully if your raise gets called pre.

The lowjack’s range (opening over two limpers) should contain a fair amount of better aces, even though you partially block him. So an ace on the flop is normally trouble.

A generic lowjack opening like that also probably has a lot of pocket pairs and suited connectors. Not knowing more about the villain, I think you just have to go on basic assumptions.

Either way… While it’s good in these games to clear out limpers and build a good range with the squeeze, you face the problem of often missing or being dominated by the lowjack here. So it’s going to take either some luck, or a willingness to try bluffing an unknown villain.

Anyway… The flop is in some ways very nice. But it still requires some careful play.

Villain certainly could have some AK/KK, or at least one spade if not a made flush already. Ideally he has an underpair with no spade, in which case you’re not making more money on this hand.

If he checks I would either bet small or even check back, then plan to bet the turn of no spade comes. That might seem conservative with two pair, but there is a nontrivial chance of getting stacked here due to the lowjack’s range plus the suited board.

(Might feel different if I knew more about the villain.)

 

[upNdown]

He has donk bet at least once since we have sat I think with top pair.

Sorry to veer off topic, but is that wrong?
Seems like a good time to donk

 

[grebe]

Sorry to veer off topic, but is that wrong?
Seems like a good time to donk

Let's just say, there's a reason it's called donk betting.

Not always wrong, but easily exploitable if not balanced.

 

[Legend5555]

I don't like the squeeze at all because of stack sizes. An appropriate squeeze size here would be 45-50. Even at 30 we are putting in about 15% of our stack in a spot where we should really expect multiple callers at that price. Which is going to give us a very small SPR OOP, usually against multiple opponents.

Even heads up, the pot will be about $80, and we only have 150-170 behind. Not enough to run a multi street play and we are still OOP.

We get to close the action with a hand that has nut potential against multiple opponents that could be drawing to worse . Just take your discount and hope to flop well.

As played, I'm probably going to play this as bet flop, jam turn unless a 4th spade comes. Villain really shouldn't have AK or KK double flatting from the button. So we really only lose to 3 combos of Broadway spades, which in these games is totally possible, but that means they can also have all sorts of other stuff too. And we can get a lot of value from hands with the naked Js or Qs.

 

[Marc Hedrick]

Problem with the flop is that hero doesn't really have any flushes in range. We have QQ with a spade for nut draw, but that's about it. Hero has the only AA and KK. Villian doesn't have many flushes either, I think with a call/call line and the A and K being accounted for. Maybe QJ/Q10 of spades, but we have outs against flushes obviously.

All that being said, I bet about 1/3 pot here with a lot of my range, so let's do that and see what develops.

 

[grebe]

I don't like the squeeze at all because of stack sizes. An appropriate squeeze size here would be 45-50. Even at 30 we are putting in about 15% of our stack in a spot where we should really expect multiple callers at that price.

Why would your squeeze be so large? 45-50 seems very big to me.

Which is going to give us a very small SPR OOP, usually against multiple opponents.

To me, a smaller SPR OOP is better than a large SPR OOP. I mean, say we get it all in, so our SPR is 0. We no longer care we are out of position. The deeper stacked we are, the more being out of position will hurt us. Am I missing something here?

 

[warma]

No...I fold to anybody's 4 bet.

You would fold A3s to a single bet preflop? If so, we are on different pages.

Fair. It’s $1/$1 with 3 folks calling a $7 raise and two limpers to follow.

I don’t know the table, but three folks coming along for the ride at 7x could mean a lot of things. If we squeeze, I’d be worried about callers and praying for just the right flop.

We have a long night ahead of us in a friendly game of poker. No need for me to charge into this, unless I was feeling frisky. I’ll sip on my bourbon and watch it play out.

 

[Senzrock]

Interesting spot. I also don't love the squeeze here, just because we are out of position with a hand that has nice equity heads up if lets say we shoved in a tournament but actually doesn't flop great in a cash game out of position. I think this is a hand we want to put in our calling ranging preflop and squeeze with a hand like KJ or KT of diamonds instead. What @Legend5555 said about stack sizes was going to also be part of my comment. We are very shallow/awkward here when we raise $30 pre. With few reads on the initial raiser and what his raising range may look like, I think this is a just call pre.

As played... this is a great flop for us obviously. I think we are happy to get it in on this flop if necessary, and are only concerned about the 4th spade. We are going broke as played vs. flopped flushes or any Ax with the spade that ends up hitting if the money goes in on the flop but we should be well ahead of a ton of hands here. $80 in the pot with $140 behind, I bet a sizing that allows us to shove the turn comfortably. I think anything between $25 and $75 is honestly fine. Even a shove, while awkward, isn't the worst in the world on this specific flop (but prefer to get a call from other Ax, Kx and one spade hands).

 

[upNdown]

I agree with legend that $30 is low for a squeeze here. There's what, $28 or $29 in the pot? Yeah I'd be putting $50-60 out there if I were trying to squeeze that. But I'm no cash game genius and always eager to learn.
As played, there's now over $80 in the pot? and we have $200 behind? I'm probably jamming here. I suppose it's a leak, because we should be way ahead and we want calls. But if this guy has any kind of a spade, he's gonna pay $30 or $40 to see another card. I say make him pay a lot, or otherwise I'm just happy taking what's in the middle

 

[grebe]

As played, there's now over $80 in the pot? and we have $200 behind? I'm probably jamming here. I suppose it's a leak, because we should be way ahead and we want calls.

Honestly, I'm not polarizing this flop, because I'm betting here any chance I can. Monotone flops are great opportunities to take down pots easily with a small bet when we miss, or get a little value when we have it. Also, if he has a spade (or two) we will find out now... Better to be able to fold a small cbet to a jam than being priced in and know we are behind. If we want calls, why jam? The calls we get will not be what we want.

I'm pretty comfortable with a small bet here with range. I think I'm happy with a fold or a call. A jam would be awful.

 

[Eriks]

Not a big fan of the squeeze when this relatively shallow. I would want to go bigger but also have deeper effective stacks. He can have all the QJ/QT/JT etc of spades still.

As played I’d bet around $25-30 on the flop to leave a nice all-in bet to ship in on a blank turn. Not sure I could fold if he shoves on us on the flop. It would just be another $115 and while he can have a lot of flushes, he can also have stuff like AQ/AJ with or with a spade. Maybe even QJo etc with a spade.

 

[Vintage1974]

I would have bet 35-40 for a squeeze. Bet 1/2 the pot on the flop and see where you're at. If you get a caller you might be hosed. Check/call turn and river for small bets -- they're most likely hoping for another spade, or maybe trying to keep you in the hand (not sure they're that savvy). If another spade comes out you're obviously done with the hand. This isn't really a tough hand to analyze in my opinion. That being said, small suited aces (and suited connectors) like lots of people in the pot. I like your line of trying to squeeze, but in some cases you can call here to mix it up and keep marginal players in the pot. Even if you just called the initial raise and closed the action, I'd play the flop, turn, and river the same as if you had 3-bet. If nobody has a spade in their hand, you probably take down the pot with a flop bet. If you get one caller, be careful on the turn and river. More than one caller and you're done with the hand.

 

[Marc Hedrick]

I would have bet 35-40 for a squeeze. Bet 1/2 the pot on the flop and see where you're at. If you get a caller you might be hosed. Check/call turn and river for small bets -- they're most likely hoping for another spade, or maybe trying to keep you in the hand (not sure they're that savvy). If another spade comes out you're obviously done with the hand. This isn't really a tough hand to analyze in my opinion. That being said, small suited aces (and suited connectors) like lots of people in the pot. I like your line of trying to squeeze, but in some cases you can call here to mix it up and keep marginal players in the pot. Even if you just called the initial raise and closed the action, I'd play the flop, turn, and river the same as if you had 3-bet. If nobody has a spade in their hand, you probably take down the pot with a flop bet. If you get one caller, be careful on the turn and river. More than one caller and you're done with the hand.

Why bet so much on the flop when a smaller bet will accomplish the same thing? I suggested 1/3 pot, but maybe even a little smaller is optimal. You said if we get a caller we might be 'hosed' -- Are you suggesting that you're betting half pot on the flop with two pair as a bluff? Worse hands can definitely call here.

It's much easier to play this hand after you've 3 bet because you can get credit for having all the top sets, AK, etc -- as well has having a lower SPR. Calling here is horrible from out of position IMO. Squeezing gets lots of better aces to fold, yet may keep in some hands we're ahead of.

 

[Lemonzest]

I would bet 40-50% of the pot and see what happens. I think giving a free card with so many spades on board sucks. If he doesn't have a high spade or an ace then he almost certainly folds unless he decides to float you.

 

[kirchhausen]

Betting $40 here is reasonable, and sets you up for a perfect size shove on turn.

 

[grebe]

Not a big fan of the squeeze when this relatively shallow. I would want to go bigger but also have deeper effective stacks.

200 bb's isn't deep enough to squeeze? How deep do you need to be?

 

[grebe]

As stated, this is a flop I almost always c-bet with range for a small amount... Quarter to third pot.... Online as well as live.

I down bet to $20 wanting a call.

Villain checks his cards and calls.

Turn is

Action to hero....

 

[Eriks]

200 bb's isn't deep enough to squeeze? How deep do you need to be?

With this hand, I should’ve said. And I’m only counting 175bbs

 

[grebe]

With this hand, I should’ve said. And I’m only counting 175bbs

I'd do it with 100 bigs

 

[kirchhausen]

pot is a little over $100 and effective stacks are about $125? Awkward spot. 5d should not have helped opponent. Even if you bet $40 (assuming opp calls), that pots pot at $180 and effective stacks at just $85. I guess shove?

 

[Goldfish]

I say get it all in with 2p unless ur opponent starts crushing Oreos.

 

[Legend5555]

200 bb's isn't deep enough to squeeze? How deep do you need to be?

Stack depth here isn't really 200bb since the open was to $7. It's more like you are playing 1/2. And even then squeezing OOP against more than 2 players from the BB is not recommended.

3 betting from the BB is less necessary than from the SB since you can just close the action. 3 betting from the button with this hand would be much better since you can 3 bet smaller and can basically guarantee you see 4 cards if you want to.

 

[Taghkanic]

I don't like the squeeze at all because of stack sizes. An appropriate squeeze size here would be 45-50. Even at 30 we are putting in about 15% of our stack in a spot where we should really expect multiple callers at that price. Which is going to give us a very small SPR OOP, usually against multiple opponents.

Not sure I agree. The raise was to $7, over two limpers, in a 1/1 game, with the blinds yet to act.

So there is $11 in the pot. It will cost the blinds and the limpers $29 to call the $30 raise, and the initial raiser $23.

That seems more than large enough to either take it down or isolate the initial raiser.

I don’t see how making it $45-$50 would accomplish much more. Yeah, you’d take it down somewhat more often, but when called you’re in a world of trouble. Is the $11 worth it? This has to work maybe 75-80% of the time just to break even.

If anything I might go for more like $20-25 because of the stack size issue you mention, expecting to take it down less often but have more pot sized bets left to keep pressure on as needed.

 

[kmccormick100]

As stated, I don’t like the squeeze for a couple reasons - I’d much rather squeeze with something like suited broadways, AJo, KQo where thinning the field is more likely to leave you with the best hand, small suited aces play really well drawing at nut flushes and wheels, but are usually crushed against an open/call a 3b range. If you are going to squeeze I’m probably going 5-6x the raise over two calls to try and isolate.

As played, it’s a pretty good flop for your 3b range and actual hand, I’m continuing for about 1/3 pot and probably calling off if he shoves, hoping to hold against a hand with the .

 

[Taghkanic]

Anyway... Once the 5d comes on the turn, with only a little more than a pot sized bet effectively left, I would either check or shove, can’t see any middling options making sense. I’d lean shove. Your hand isn’t getting better very often, and you need to charge draws while trying to get max value from worse Aces. If you’re already beat, you’re already beat.