Cash Game Cashing in for part of their stack in the middle of the game? (1 Viewer)

[Coyote]

In short, table stakes is the cornerstone of all rules, it's Commandment #1.
A friendly game doesn't mean a game without rules. Would you play soccer with friends using your hands to control the ball too? (or, basketball using legs/feet)?
Sure, a game, if it is to survive, has to cater to its weakest players, in terms of skill or finances.
But this can be done by lowering the stakes and / or max buy-ins or playing pot limit (or limit), not by violating fundamental rules.

 

[DoubleEagle]

We don't allow it and no one would ask. However, I played in a new game a couple of years ago and there was quit a bit of money on the table. A couple of players were selling chips from their stacks to players that got felted and they would put the money in their pocket. I never went back.

However, if your game has a low buy-in and everyone is comfortable with taking money off the table, then fine. It's your game, your rules. While I would not like it, do what works for you and your players.

 

[justsomedude]

It's going on the website and will be hung on the wall. Thanks for all the feedback

Lots of good tips and trick on House Rules over in this thread.

Here's my rule pertaining to the OP...

 

[Mental Nomad]

If your game is more about winning and crushing your opponents then I totally get not allowing something like cashing out and buying back in later for a less amount.

I think you have it exactly backwards. The rule is about protecting the other players, and I want it in any casual game I'm playing.

If your game is more about letting someone who gets ahead via a few lucky hands being able to prevent anyone else at the table from winning that money back, then by all means, allow them to Rat-Hole.

There's a reason it's called rat-holing. I find that players very quickly get the picture when I respond to the question with, "sorry, that's called rat-holing, and it's not allowed."

 

[justsomedude]

I think you have it exactly backwards. The rule is about protecting the other players, and I want it in any casual game I'm playing.

If your game is more about letting someone who gets ahead via a few lucky hands being able to prevent anyone else at the table from winning that money back, then by all means, allow them to Rat-Hole.

There's a reason it's called rat-holing. I find that players very quickly get the picture when I respond to the question with, "sorry, that's called rat-holing, and it's not allowed."

Exactly this... because taking money out of play can destroy the game.

I had a player come to a 1/2 game I was hosting, hit a few big pots early on, cash out and leave. This was well before I had any "house rules."

By doing his "hit and run" he effectively took 40% of the money in play OFF the table within the first 90-minutes of the game starting... anyone present who was on the fence about rat-holing or hit-and-runs immediately understood the negative aspects, and the shit talking about this specific player was harsh.

He essentially killed off the game that night because he wanted to be greedy.

 

[Mental Nomad]

And in a home game, wouldn't the high hand jackpot be awarded when play is over?

Not if it's awarded at different times throughout the session (hourly, etc.).

In my home game high hand jackpot, the jackpot pays out every time a qualifier hits. (Jacks full or better full house gets 1/4, for example.)

The player is allowed to take the chips off the table, or add them to their stack. If they add them to their stack, they stay there the end of the night. The great majority of the time, the chips are added to the table unless the payout is really big, in which case they'll sometimes take the value chips off the table and add the small chips to their stack.

 

[CraigT78]

Exactly this... because taking money out of play can destroy the game.

I had a player come to a 1/2 game I was hosting, hit a few big pots early on, cash out and leave. This was well before I had any "house rules."

By doing his "hit and run" he effectively took 40% of the money in play OFF the table within the first 90-minutes of the game starting... anyone present who was on the fence about rat-holing or hit-and-runs immediately understood the negative aspects, and the shit talking about this specific player was harsh.

He essentially killed off the game that night because he wanted to be greedy.

This is why I have an unwritten 30 minute notice rule. It's generally understood that if you are leaving before being broke, that you give a 30 minute warning. Some guys will call 2 orbits, others 15/20 minutes , and all that is fine and good.

 

[Coyote]

For those up, we have a 4-hour minimum total play and a two-orbit notice.
Those down or breaking even can leave anytime.

 

[bsdunbar1]

This is why I have an unwritten 30 minute notice rule. It's generally understood that if you are leaving before being broke, that you give a 30 minute warning. Some guys will call 2 orbits, others 15/20 minutes , and all that is fine and good.

We have ^this^ as an unwritten rule. If you are up in $$ and think you are going to leave without some advance notice you will get verbally abused into staying and then you won't do it again.

 

[justsomedude]

We have ^this^ as an unwritten rule. If you are up in $$ and think you are going to leave without some advance notice you will get verbally abused into staying and then you won't do it ever be invited back again.

FYP

 

[CraigT78]

you will get verbally abused into staying

At our games, even the loser get's this treatment even more so if it was a call/text from the wife that preceded said departure.

 

[Taghkanic]

I've been promoting cash games in our circle consistently for a couple of years, but some of the worse players insist on tournaments which they then consistently never win. So rather than being able to win small or lose less they opt for a fairly certain 100% loss of their buy-in(s)…. go figure...

There’s a player I’ve known for years who is simply terrible. Only plays tournaments. Almost always the first one out. Maybe once in 50 tries he’ll get in the money in a two-table, 14-18 player game, even with 4-5 places getting paid, and that 1-in-50 win is going be thanks to some extraordinary rungood. No exaggeration.

Sometimes he’ll build a big stack in the early stages, due to his chase everything, station-y game. (You can’t miss every gutshot...) But he will donk off those chips within an hour, pretty much every time.

Anyway, point being that I think he might actually have a little more success, per your post above, in cash, because he could quit somewhere on that downward slope from a lucky windfall to donking it back off. But he absolutely refuses to join the cash game after the tourney.

I think the reason some players avoid cash is the false impression that they would lose a lot more money, whereas at least in a tourney your losses can be capped, assuming you can’t or don’t rebuy endlessly.

But while it’s true that a terrible player would also be a longterm loser in cash, in the long run it should take more time to exhaust their bankroll, since it is more common to finish up a little/down a little than completely busto, and they're aren't facing a sudden death situation as in a tourney with escalating blinds.

 

[trever]

I don't know if it's explicitly stated as allowed, but it seems to be an accepted practice. I actually played at Rivers the past three weekend and players were definitely buying food and drinks (and even table massages) with chips off their stack. Again, it wasn't a huge deal at the 2/5 table where the average stack was around $1500, but money was coming off the table nonetheless.

I played a fun NLHE hand vs. a guy getting a massage: lots of bets and raises and it wasn't until he got all in that it dawned on him that; I had him covered, I had the stone cold nuts and, he didn't have anything left to pay for his massage.

 

[Trihonda]

I was playing a buddies 1/2 game, where I drove 40 minutes to get to his house, sat down and got crazy cooler hands and lost $600 in the first 30 minutes of the game to a decent local player. After only playing for 30 minutes, the other player suddenly announced that he had to go spend time with his girlfriend, so he cashed out. This essentially killed the game, and the host has continued to invite this player back. It’s because of that I am reluctant to go back and play his house.

 

[dmalhi1]

this would just cause me to tilt....:

 

[bsdunbar1]

FYP

NO, this is a home game. We aren't that cut throat, we are among friends.

 

[bsdunbar1]

lost $600 in the first 30 minutes of the game to a decent local player. It’s because of that I am reluctant to go back and play his house.

Don't be reluctant - Just don't lose $600

 

[justsomedude]

NO, this is a home game. We aren't that cut throat, we are among friends.

That's precisely my point... if some one is hit-and-running with $700 in the first 90-minutes, that's not very friendly. And they won't be welcome back at my social/friendly game.

 

[detroitdad]

That's precisely my point... if some one is hit-and-running with $700 in the first 90-minutes, that's not very friendly. And they won't be welcome back at my social/friendly game.

yep. Thank god we don't have this problem in our game. Our regs are mostly pcfers that can't wait for the next game. We mostly play every week lol

 

[Taghkanic]

I know a guy (good player otherwise) who as soon as he’s up a few hundred in a cash game, basically stops playing hands, starts to talk about having to get up early, waits an orbit, yawns and stretches, one more orbit, “got a really big day tomorrow,” and then he’s out... I’d almost prefer a shameless hit-and-run than the transparent folding and excuses routine.

I assume everyone knows That Guy.

 

[WedgeRock]

when we pay the high hand jackpot we pay in chips and those chips are immediately in play.

I live this idea.

@detroitdad, you getting this?

 

[WedgeRock]

yep. Thank god we don't have this problem in our game. Our regs are mostly pcfers that can't wait for the next game. We mostly play every week lol

Um...

One guy, if he's up late, he's out the door. He can be down, scoop a big pot, then it's one orbit and cash out. Not a PCFer.

 

[justsomedude]

yep. Thank god we don't have this problem in our game. Our regs are mostly pcfers that can't wait for the next game. We mostly play every week lol

For the most part, neither do I... this was a "non-PCFer" who was invited through a friend. He hasn't been back in ages. It's kind of funny - his name came up at my game on Saturday night, and one of my players who knows him said he really gave him a hard time after that hit-and-run, and that player in question didn't understand why it was such a bad thing to do.

 

[Blaster]

Remember also that another way a player can " go south/rat hole" is if he is allowed to sell his chips to another player...
Example- player in seat 4 wants to buy $20 in chips, so player #1 sitting g on $70 in chips takes his $20, gives him the chips and pockets that $20...
A rule of chips only on table, and all buys/cashes from the bank, avoids any confusion or problems...

 

[justsomedude]

Remember also that another way a player can " go south/rat hole" is if he is allowed to sell his chips to another player...
Example- player in seat 4 wants to buy $20 in chips, so player #1 sitting g on $70 in chips takes his $20, gives him the chips and pockets that $20...
A rule of chips only on table, and all buys/cashes from the bank, avoids any confusion or problems...

+1

And my house rule #5...

And supported by my rule #6...

 

[detroitdad]

Um...

One guy, if he's up late, he's out the door. He can be down, scoop a big pot, then it's one orbit and cash out. Not a PCFer.

if it's late, it's not a hit and run. Who specifically?

 

[Payback]

Last week at the casino I saw this same thing happen. Player wins a big pot for $700 to 800 dollars. He proceeds to cash out, goes to get dinner, and comes back about 1.5 hours later. The floor uses the 2 hour rule for everything and the player tries to sit down at my table with less than his cash out amount. The floor noticed and made him add the additional few hundred dollars to his stack. He was pissed off about it, but they held firm on their policy and why it's in place. As the person sitting directly to the left with a large stack I was very happy to know how uncomfortable he was. Unfortunately, things didn't work out as I had hoped, but the floor got a nice tip from me that evening for their enforcement of this rule.

 

[ledge4131]

This is why I have an unwritten 30 minute notice rule. It's generally understood that if you are leaving before being broke, that you give a 30 minute warning. Some guys will call 2 orbits, others 15/20 minutes , and all that is fine and good.

We do a similar thing at my home game. We go with 45 minute notice rule, or three orbits.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Example- player in seat 4 wants to buy $20 in chips, so player #1 sitting g on $70 in chips takes his $20, gives him the chips and pockets that $20...
A rule of chips only on table, and all buys/cashes from the bank, avoids any confusion or problems...

Techincally, you can let them buy chips from the table - but the cash used to buy the chips has to stay on the table. This is part of the "cash on the table plays" rule - and pulling playing cash off the table is no less rat-holing than taking chips off the table.

It doesn't come off the table.

It's actually easy when they're buying with cash... the point where this becomes difficult for some people is when they want to lend each other chips from their live stacks and don't get why it's a problem. "No, no, it's OK, I know he's good for it..." Sometimes they have a hard time understanding why it's wrong.

 

[Daddy N]

Does anyone know where the phrase "Going South" comes from?