Are circus game players the kinky swingers of the poker world? (3 Viewers)

I don’t understand how anyone gets bored of holdem.
Because after enough time, it becomes formulaic. Especially tournament poker. Once you've experienced the 1000:1 beat, delivered the 1000:1 suckout, and everything in between countless times, it just loses it's appeal.

That's the allure of games that aren't 'solved'. Plus, the more cards you're dealt the more playable hands you get... which keep you engaged. Folding 4 out of every 5 hands you're dealt sucks balls.

I don’t need to boink the neighbor’s wife wearing a bunny costume, to know it’s not for me.
What if she was wearing a different outfit, like perhaps the mascot from Buc-ees ready to dole out some southern justice? Would that do it for you? LOL

cop.webp
 
I’ll defend boring old Texas hold’em. Most circus players won't make it to the end because they are ADHD kinky swingers but that is o.k.

I like mixed games and, like most, I grew up with dealer's choice games playing baseball, follow the queen, deuces or one-eyed jacks wild, etc. I can even enjoy some of the weirder stuff in the right crowd. I’m not saying everyone should just sit around playing 9-handed NLHE until the end of time. But the contention that hold’em is boring because you have to fold a lot, which is what I see touted often is, to me, exactly backwards.

That is part of what makes it poker.

Patience is not the absence of skill. Patience is a skill. Discipline is a skill. Knowing that KTo under the gun is pretty but still trashy is a skill. Watching three people light money on fire and still not joining the bonfire is a skill. Not needing to VPIP 80% just to feel like you are “playing” is a skill. Maybe I grew up in a different time or mindset but a lot of poker to me is the ability to wait, observe, read, and then attack when the spot is actually profitable.

Hold’em has a clean strategic beauty that circus games sorely lack. Two hole cards. Five board cards. Everyone understands the rules. That simplicity is not a weakness. It means the complexity in the game comes from position, range construction, bet sizing, blockers, table image, board texture, player tendencies, stack depth, pressure, and timing. It is simple to explain and hard to master. That's a sign of a great game, not a boring one.

Circus games can be fun, but a lot of the “fun” comes from forced action, confusion, massive equities, and people not really knowing where they stand. Yes that can create unavoidable table explosions and hilarious stories, but it does not necessarily make the game better. It just means there are more ways to gamble and fewer ways to know whether you actually even played well. Just because you won a pot doesn't mean you played it right or that you utilized any skill. I also like to gamble, and to me that is what the majority of Circus is, just gambling, not the utilization of a ton of skill. Not saying you don't have to pay attention and cannot discern information in those games that can give you an edge, but I would say the end result of any hand is much much more a crapshoot than anything else.

Hold-em is proud to be cheese pizza. A great cheese pizza is great because there is nowhere to hide. No pineapple, brisket, weird dough, hot honey, stuffed crust, or twelve toppings covering up the fundamentals. Dough, sauce, cheese, heat. If it is good, it is good because the basics are good. Hold’em is the same way. Starting hands, position, pressure, reading people, controlled aggression, and patience. No wild cards or draws needed.

And the “I don’t want to sit there folding” complaint has always sounded to me like saying baseball is boring because the batter doesn’t swing at every pitch. Exactly. That’s the point. The call is sometimes the play. The fold is sometimes the play. The best players are not the ones involved in every hand; they are the ones making better decisions hand after hand, including the hands they don’t play. I have heard many times that the truly skilled players are not the ones that know when to play a hand, but are the ones that know or sense when to get away from a hand that 9/10 people would have played. In other words, the smart folders.

So I will play circus games. I will gamble and have fun. We can invent “double-board reverse bisexual scrotum pineapple drawmaha” if the table wants it. I’ll laugh and maybe even sit in. But I reject the idea that hold’em is lesser poker because it rewards discipline. The fact that it punishes boredom, impatience, and “I came here to play every hand” energy is one of the reasons it is the undisputed King of Poker Games.
 
I 've gone to great lengths and even lost friendships in my effort to introduce the full 52-card deck and abolish circus-y crap in Greek home games.
 
Baseball…..is boring.

No one is saying patience isn’t a skill or folding isn’t a skill.

That’s the point, the biggest part of the game is quitting or exiting the competition.

Tons of people love baseball, love hold em, love sitting in a blind for 10 hours waiting for a deer, love watching cars turn left for 10 hours.

Kinda funny that a common theme between all those is drinking. Wonder why :rolleyes:
 
Circus games require nut pedaling. NLHE is labeled as boring because admittedly you have fewer starting hands that justify getting involved (i.e.: lots of folding).

When all 52 cards are used in a circus game, you're not bluffing three streets holding the equivalent of 7To because you're in late position and know the tendencies of the BB to fold to aggression.
 
I’ll defend boring old Texas hold’em. Most circus players won't make it to the end because they are ADHD kinky swingers but that is o.k.

I like mixed games and, like most, I grew up with dealer's choice games playing baseball, follow the queen, deuces or one-eyed jacks wild, etc. I can even enjoy some of the weirder stuff in the right crowd. I’m not saying everyone should just sit around playing 9-handed NLHE until the end of time. But the contention that hold’em is boring because you have to fold a lot, which is what I see touted often is, to me, exactly backwards.

That is part of what makes it poker.

Patience is not the absence of skill. Patience is a skill. Discipline is a skill. Knowing that KTo under the gun is pretty but still trashy is a skill. Watching three people light money on fire and still not joining the bonfire is a skill. Not needing to VPIP 80% just to feel like you are “playing” is a skill. Maybe I grew up in a different time or mindset but a lot of poker to me is the ability to wait, observe, read, and then attack when the spot is actually profitable.

Hold’em has a clean strategic beauty that circus games sorely lack. Two hole cards. Five board cards. Everyone understands the rules. That simplicity is not a weakness. It means the complexity in the game comes from position, range construction, bet sizing, blockers, table image, board texture, player tendencies, stack depth, pressure, and timing. It is simple to explain and hard to master. That's a sign of a great game, not a boring one.

Circus games can be fun, but a lot of the “fun” comes from forced action, confusion, massive equities, and people not really knowing where they stand. Yes that can create unavoidable table explosions and hilarious stories, but it does not necessarily make the game better. It just means there are more ways to gamble and fewer ways to know whether you actually even played well. Just because you won a pot doesn't mean you played it right or that you utilized any skill. I also like to gamble, and to me that is what the majority of Circus is, just gambling, not the utilization of a ton of skill. Not saying you don't have to pay attention and cannot discern information in those games that can give you an edge, but I would say the end result of any hand is much much more a crapshoot than anything else.

Hold-em is proud to be cheese pizza. A great cheese pizza is great because there is nowhere to hide. No pineapple, brisket, weird dough, hot honey, stuffed crust, or twelve toppings covering up the fundamentals. Dough, sauce, cheese, heat. If it is good, it is good because the basics are good. Hold’em is the same way. Starting hands, position, pressure, reading people, controlled aggression, and patience. No wild cards or draws needed.

And the “I don’t want to sit there folding” complaint has always sounded to me like saying baseball is boring because the batter doesn’t swing at every pitch. Exactly. That’s the point. The call is sometimes the play. The fold is sometimes the play. The best players are not the ones involved in every hand; they are the ones making better decisions hand after hand, including the hands they don’t play. I have heard many times that the truly skilled players are not the ones that know when to play a hand, but are the ones that know or sense when to get away from a hand that 9/10 people would have played. In other words, the smart folders.

So I will play circus games. I will gamble and have fun. We can invent “double-board reverse bisexual scrotum pineapple drawmaha” if the table wants it. I’ll laugh and maybe even sit in. But I reject the idea that hold’em is lesser poker because it rewards discipline. The fact that it punishes boredom, impatience, and “I came here to play every hand” energy is one of the reasons it is the undisputed King of Poker Games.
Great post. I hear all the time “Holdem is solved” as their excuse, buncha idiots. They don’t like Holdem because they are ADHD. Even if they had personally “solved” Holdem they would still suck at it, but it would be “somebody else’s” fault, like they didn’t play right because they didn’t understand “what they were supposed to do” according to the “solver”.
Poker would be funnier for them if the “idiots who haven’t solved holdem” weren’t taking their money all the time.

Yeah, I don’t drink.
 
Baseball…..is boring.

No one is saying patience isn’t a skill or folding isn’t a skill.

That’s the point, the biggest part of the game is quitting or exiting the competition.

Tons of people love baseball, love hold em, love sitting in a blind for 10 hours waiting for a deer, love watching cars turn left for 10 hours.

Kinda funny that a common theme between all those is drinking. Wonder why :rolleyes:
Just went to a Texas Rangers game. Stayed the entire time. Was not bored for one second. Maybe that is the difference. I don't consider folding a hand to be "quitting" the game or "exiting" the competition. There is still plenty of game to be had, even in a hand you folded. That's where you have a chance to really observe everyone else and pick up the information that is going to pay off for you on the hand you don't fold. Different way to play I guess...
 
I 've gone to great lengths and even lost friendships in my effort to introduce the full 52-card deck and abolish circus-y crap in Greek home games.
If you lose them over a card game they likely weren’t “friends” to start with.
 
Hey you? Yes, you!

Did you just finish a grueling work shift? Get up at 530 with your kids this morning? It’s almost the weekend, where you’re going to mow, work on school projects, redo your roof?

Oh boy, do I have the social event getaway of the year for you!

Step right up and come play a game where success looks like playing 15/100 times! But don’t worry, 100/100 times you’ll be focusing, identifying trends, constantly studying opponents physical characteristics and adjusting your thought process.

Half your opponents aren’t even opponents, they’re just NPCs who you can auto fold to if they move a muscle.

The best part, not only is this already like work and going to keep your brain engaged, but much like your job you get to sit at a desk the whole time too!

Can I count you in?!
 
I’ll defend boring old Texas hold’em. Most circus players won't make it to the end because they are ADHD kinky swingers but that is o.k.

I like mixed games and, like most, I grew up with dealer's choice games playing baseball, follow the queen, deuces or one-eyed jacks wild, etc. I can even enjoy some of the weirder stuff in the right crowd. I’m not saying everyone should just sit around playing 9-handed NLHE until the end of time. But the contention that hold’em is boring because you have to fold a lot, which is what I see touted often is, to me, exactly backwards.

That is part of what makes it poker.

Patience is not the absence of skill. Patience is a skill. Discipline is a skill. Knowing that KTo under the gun is pretty but still trashy is a skill. Watching three people light money on fire and still not joining the bonfire is a skill. Not needing to VPIP 80% just to feel like you are “playing” is a skill. Maybe I grew up in a different time or mindset but a lot of poker to me is the ability to wait, observe, read, and then attack when the spot is actually profitable.

Hold’em has a clean strategic beauty that circus games sorely lack. Two hole cards. Five board cards. Everyone understands the rules. That simplicity is not a weakness. It means the complexity in the game comes from position, range construction, bet sizing, blockers, table image, board texture, player tendencies, stack depth, pressure, and timing. It is simple to explain and hard to master. That's a sign of a great game, not a boring one.

Circus games can be fun, but a lot of the “fun” comes from forced action, confusion, massive equities, and people not really knowing where they stand. Yes that can create unavoidable table explosions and hilarious stories, but it does not necessarily make the game better. It just means there are more ways to gamble and fewer ways to know whether you actually even played well. Just because you won a pot doesn't mean you played it right or that you utilized any skill. I also like to gamble, and to me that is what the majority of Circus is, just gambling, not the utilization of a ton of skill. Not saying you don't have to pay attention and cannot discern information in those games that can give you an edge, but I would say the end result of any hand is much much more a crapshoot than anything else.

Hold-em is proud to be cheese pizza. A great cheese pizza is great because there is nowhere to hide. No pineapple, brisket, weird dough, hot honey, stuffed crust, or twelve toppings covering up the fundamentals. Dough, sauce, cheese, heat. If it is good, it is good because the basics are good. Hold’em is the same way. Starting hands, position, pressure, reading people, controlled aggression, and patience. No wild cards or draws needed.

And the “I don’t want to sit there folding” complaint has always sounded to me like saying baseball is boring because the batter doesn’t swing at every pitch. Exactly. That’s the point. The call is sometimes the play. The fold is sometimes the play. The best players are not the ones involved in every hand; they are the ones making better decisions hand after hand, including the hands they don’t play. I have heard many times that the truly skilled players are not the ones that know when to play a hand, but are the ones that know or sense when to get away from a hand that 9/10 people would have played. In other words, the smart folders.

So I will play circus games. I will gamble and have fun. We can invent “double-board reverse bisexual scrotum pineapple drawmaha” if the table wants it. I’ll laugh and maybe even sit in. But I reject the idea that hold’em is lesser poker because it rewards discipline. The fact that it punishes boredom, impatience, and “I came here to play every hand” energy is one of the reasons it is the undisputed King of Poker Games.

So at DiD how much furry kink will there be vs cheese pizza?
 
Reading posts here makes me feel very fortunate to have the games I host and get invited to play in. NLHE can be fun with the right crowd. Circus games can suck with the wrong crowd.

So at DiD how much furry kink will there be vs cheese pizza?
There will be furry pizza with pineapple likely. I haven't seen a full NLHE cash game table any of the years I went. Half the time I'm playing games that are new to me.
 
Just went to a Texas Rangers game. Stayed the entire time. Was not bored for one second. Maybe that is the difference. I don't consider folding a hand to be "quitting" the game or "exiting" the competition. There is still plenty of game to be had, even in a hand you folded. That's where you have a chance to really observe everyone else and pick up the information that is going to pay off for you on the hand you don't fold. Different way to play I guess...
I actually enjoy hold em. Was looking forward to seeing the various responses supporting it and was waiting for them. There’s a game I play at now where I prefer hold em to their version of circus.

I love games of legitimately any kind. I tend to be naturally good and usually win. It’s been years since there’s been time for tabletop anything, but if the wife and I end up free at the same time we’ll occasionally play an app version of one of our favs.

Cheap hold em is a great way for me to blow off steam. Idc if I win or lose, it’s social, etc. An intense, full table of all lag/tag is also super cool in its own right, just typically not what I’d want to sit at.

I joke it being adhd and such, maybe it is for some. For me it’s mostly a value/time ratio and that pretty much every single game/expansion/mechanism I come across is at ends with hold em. Maybe that’s why hold em only people enjoy it that much more?

I’d venture a wild guess, that’s proved right more than wrong so far, that holdem only players aren’t all that good at most other games.

PS - I love all the nonsense about reading opponents and paying attention. At high levels, sure. For the PCFers whose win rate is 80%+, sure.

But the amount of jackwagon poker players that “read me” or “knew what I had” when I hadn’t even looked at my cards yet - lol thy can gtfoh.
 
Just flip quarters for the money, skip the cards, and go do super duper exciting stuff instead!! Or much more important stuff like drinking!!!!

If boring poker games aren’t your thing you can always go somewhere else and do something else. Never forget that!!!

Unless shitting on other people’s games that you don’t even play is your thing. Then the other players just wish you would go somewhere else and do something else.

At the end of the day they are card games. Not moral problems, not life or death, not even worth talking to your spouse about the next day. Nobody’s dying or going to jail. Just games.
 
RoE /thread
That's how we do our mixed games. It's much better than dealer's choice so you don't have to explain the games over and over. One rotation before changing to another predetermined game, and keep going in that order throughout the night. 4-5 game rotation.

I should also note, we do have NLHE in our rotation :) Once the night fizzles out, if the remaining players want to take out NLHE we do. Near the end everyone is looking for maximum carnage.
 
That's how we do our mixed games. It's much better than dealer's choice so you don't have to explain the games over and over. One rotation before changing to another predetermined game, and keep going in that order throughout the night. 4-5 game rotation.

I should also note, we do have NLHE in our rotation :) Once the night fizzles out, if the remaining players want to take out NLHE we do. Near the end everyone is looking for maximum carnage.
Without a doubt you can’t be changing the game every button. Has to be round by round.

IMG_4392.webp


Did someone say Circus?
 
give me a fun group and monthly game.

Hold em
Big O
6 game RxR
Dealers choice (rounds)
Hold em/PLO RxR
Scarney (dealer chooses which kind, rounds)

Just repeat the list every 6 months.

No one b*ches and no one sits out.
 

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