Anybody ever have this happen? (1 Viewer)

JD378

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I was playing at a casino last night & the dealer gathered up the cards before the river while the game was still going.

I’m dealt pocket queens, one guy bets $25 pre flop, I call & everyone else folds. The flop comes Q96 rainbow, he bets $25 again & I call. The turn is a 4, he continues with a $25 bet. I look down to get chips to call & I hear everyone saying WHOA WHAT ARE YOU DOING?? I look up & he’s turned over the cards in play & is mixing them up with the mucked cards & the deck. The dealer tells us we’ll just have to chop the pot. The other guy shows AK suited.

The dealers switch right after that hand & the players leaves also. One of the other players came over to me after they left & said that’s the third time tonight he’s done that when the same player was involved in a hand. Could the dealer & player have something going where he signals to him if he’s drawing dead on bigger pots & the dealer has a brain fart & messes up?
 
I was playing at a casino last night & the dealer gathered up the cards before the river while the game was still going.

I’m dealt pocket queens, one guy bets $25 pre flop, I call & everyone else folds. The flop comes Q96 rainbow, he bets $25 again & I call. The turn is a 4, he continues with a $25 bet. I look down to get chips to call & I hear everyone saying WHOA WHAT ARE YOU DOING?? I look up & he’s turned over the cards in play & is mixing them up with the mucked cards & the deck. The dealer tells us we’ll just have to chop the pot. The other guy shows AK suited.

The dealers switch right after that hand & the players leaves also. One of the other players came over to me after they left & said that’s the third time tonight he’s done that when the same player was involved in a hand. Could the dealer & player have something going where he signals to him if he’s drawing dead on bigger pots & the dealer has a brain fart & messes up?
For a $100 pot?
Certainly anything is possible, but that seems pretty stupid for that money.
 
You can't just draw a strong inference from the anecdote, "this other guy told me..." It's just to tough to separate facts from fiction ESPECIALLY around a poker table.

But this is worth reporting to the higher-ups. That's why they have cameras. If what this dude alleges is accurate, it can be verified.

Even if the same guy wasn't involved each time, if this guy is making such an egregious dealing error three times in one night, he's in the wrong profession.
 
For a $100 pot?
Certainly anything is possible, but that seems pretty stupid for that money.
I thought that too but I had been playing for about 4 hours & that was only the 3rd pot that had made it to $100 or more. It was 1/3 & they were pretty tight players.
 
You can't just draw a strong inference from the anecdote, "this other guy told me..." It's just to tough to separate facts from fiction ESPECIALLY around a poker table.
I completely understand that, at the end of the day it’s just money & I don’t play poker as a source of income. If I make money then great but I do it for the social part of it & to break up the monotony of being in my truck all the time.

I just thought it was kinda odd, that guy & the dealer just came over from a table that had just broken up then the player left when the dealer did.
 
I completely understand that, at the end of the day it’s just money & I don’t play poker as a source of income. If I make money then great but I do it for the social part of it & to break up the monotony of being in my truck all the time.

I just thought it was kinda odd, that guy & the dealer just came over from a table that had just broken up then the player left when the dealer did.

Oh, no worries. All I'm saying is that most tall tales happen in threes, too. When a player mucks his hand, muttering, "third time I got my aces cracked tonight" you have to take that with a grain of salt.

The thing is that what you're describing isn't a small dealer error. It's the type of error that, if done repeatedly, gets you fired. If it happened at our local casino calling the floor would be mandatory.
 
Did you call the floor? I would have immediately made a big stink.
No, I’m still new to poker & am learning what the process is when something like that happens. There were people at the table more upset than I was, the guy sitting beside me said “that’s total bullshit” & racked up his chips & left.
 
I would have demanded to call the floorman right then and there.

Zero chance I'm letting that pot being chopped due to the dealer being an ass.

If anything, the cards should speak without the board and QQ > AK. If anything, the eye in the sky can be played back to show the board as well.

I hate dealers who are incompetent.
 
Wait, do you floor-callers think anything different would have happened?

I’m not opposed to calling the floor, but it can only be done to bring the dealer’s incompetence/collision to their attention. I don’t think there’s any rule that would justify the floor doing anything but chopping, under these circumstances.
 
How would the Dealer have known what the players hole cards were to try and kill the pot? Either way, sounds like a terrible dealer.
 
Wait, do you floor-callers think anything different would have happened?

I’m not opposed to calling the floor, but it can only be done to bring the dealer’s incompetence/collision to their attention. I don’t think there’s any rule that would justify the floor doing anything but chopping, under these circumstances.

I was just thinking the same thing. If the dealer already turned the board cards over and started mixing them with the rest of the cards, there's nothing that can be done. I don't think management would bother reviewing security camera footage for a $100 pot.
 
Well, if it's between sitting there and just accepting the situation or raising the issue - I'm raising the issue 100% of the time.

Who knows what the outcome would be - for the hand, for the dealer, etc. But management can't address any issues if they're not aware of the issues. So at the very least, if you complain the management is aware of the incompetence of this employee and may address it (retraining, caning, firing, etc). Plus, you can push for some form of comp (free meal, etc) which they probably just hand over without thinking twice.
 
Wait, do you floor-callers think anything different would have happened?

I’m not opposed to calling the floor, but it can only be done to bring the dealer’s incompetence/collision to their attention. I don’t think there’s any rule that would justify the floor doing anything but chopping, under these circumstances.
at the very least, it alerts management to a shitty dealer. If hes never called out, he will never be replaced/trained/reprimanded, etc.
 
I've played thousands of hands, and this has never happened. And it should never happen. It is a big deal.

And if it happened more than once with the same dealer and with the same player, that is very suspicious.

No, I’m still new to poker & am learning what the process is when something like that happens. There were people at the table more upset than I was, the guy sitting beside me said “that’s total bullshit” & racked up his chips & left.
Ahh.. thanks for the perspective. If you do go back to the poker room, I would certainly raise this issue, and ask to speak to a manager about it. You can frame it as 'you're new to poker' and didn't know whether to bring this up at the time, but after discussing with others, you felt compelled to bring it to their attention.

I don't think management would bother reviewing security camera footage for a $100 pot.
Why wouldn't they bother? Management does (or should) care if it affects the integrity of their game, poker room, and dealers/players.

They might not stop the game to complete it's review, but they may make a conditional ruling or something might be able to review the footage to confirm the board cards, and come back later with a ruling.

And to those who say there's no other option but a chopped pot, I disagree -- the board cards are/were known, the players still have their hole cards, and the 'floor decisions are final' in all rules, anyway.
 
And to those who say there's no other option but a chopped pot, I disagree -- the board cards are/were known, the players still have their hole cards, and the 'floor decisions are final' in all rules, anyway.

You think the floor can award a pot to somebody before the river, even if it could be established that they were ahead?

That would be worse than what the dealer did.
 
You think the floor can award a pot to somebody before the river, even if it could be established that they were ahead?

That would be worse than what the dealer did.
?? If you read what the board shows AK had 0.0% odds of winning. (Which camera footage would show).

Awarding the pot to top set is closest to the outcome that would have happened. Which should be the goal of the decision.
 
The dealer & player (let’s call him player A) were involved in another controversial hand at another table earlier. The pot was a little over $100, both players check the river & player B turns over his hand to reveal the nuts. The dealer grabs his cards, flips them, puts them in the pile & pushed the chips to player A. Player A never flipped his cards & when player B asked what he was doing, the dealer and player A said he mucked his hand. Player B called the floor but I don’t know what the outcome was.
 
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I've played thousands of hands, and this has never happened. And it should never happen. It is a big deal.

And if it happened more than once with the same dealer and with the same player, that is very suspicious.


Ahh.. thanks for the perspective. If you do go back to the poker room, I would certainly raise this issue, and ask to speak to a manager about it. You can frame it as 'you're new to poker' and didn't know whether to bring this up at the time, but after discussing with others, you felt compelled to bring it to their attention.


Why wouldn't they bother? Management does (or should) care if it affects the integrity of their game, poker room, and dealers/players.

They might not stop the game to complete it's review, but they may make a conditional ruling or something might be able to review the footage to confirm the board cards, and come back later with a ruling.

And to those who say there's no other option but a chopped pot, I disagree -- the board cards are/were known, the players still have their hole cards, and the 'floor decisions are final' in all rules, anyway.

For the record, I'm am all for calling the floor over to draw attention to the mistake.

But I don't think a different result would happen. If the cards have already been mixed, they can't verify what was on the board, and I don't think they would rely on dealer/players memory.

Just my opinion
 
The dealer & player (let’s call him player A) were involved in another controversial hand at another table earlier. The pot was a little over $100, both players check the river & player B turns over his hand to reveal the nuts. The dealer grabs his cards, flips them, puts them in the pile & pushed the chips to player A. Player A never flipped his cards & when player B asked what he was doing, the dealer and player A said he mucked his hand. Player B called the floor but I don’t know what the outcome was.
That’s just absolutely ridiculous, I’d immediately report this dealer. At best he’s completely incompetent, at worst he’s actively cheating
 
?? If you read what the board shows AK had 0.0% odds of winning. (Which camera footage would show).
I did read that. And I’ll stand by what I said - maybe other people will chime in with opinions.
But regarding the cameras - can casino security cameras generally see people’s’ hole cards? I don’t know about the angles involved, but I’m guessing with a well-protected peek, the answer is no.
 
But regarding the cameras - can casino security cameras generally see people’s’ hole cards?
The other guy shows AK suited.
OP explained the other guy showed his hand, (after the board cards were prematurely collected by the dealer) so everyone knows what the hole cards were. (Assuming OP showed QQ as well).
 
I did read that. And I’ll stand by what I said - maybe other people will chime in with opinions.
But regarding the cameras - can casino security cameras generally see people’s’ hole cards? I don’t know about the angles involved, but I’m guessing with a well-protected peek, the answer is no.

I doubt cameras from above can see covered hole cards.

The OP makes it sound like the hands were tabled. So it sounds like the tabled hands and the 4 board cards would have been captured.

So you're saying making a decision of awarding the pot to QQ based on 4 known board cards showing AK had 0.0% chance of winning regardless of any river card is worse than what the dealer did?
 
I doubt cameras from above can see covered hole cards.

The OP makes it sound like the hands were tabled. So it sounds like the tabled hands and the 4 board cards would have been captured.

So you're saying making a decision of awarding the pot to QQ based on 4 known board cards showing AK had 0.0% chance of winning regardless of any river card is worse than what the dealer did?
Yes. Because cards don’t matter in poker until showdown. I think if a casino had a policy of doing what seems right, instead of following the rules, I’d be wary of playing there.
 
Yes. Because cards don’t matter in poker until showdown. I think if a casino had a policy of doing what seems right, instead of following the rules, I’d be wary of playing there.
That's wrong. They do matter. Especially under unusual circumstances where an error prevented showdown. Corrective action should be taken when possible.

The integrity of the game matters in situations like this. And any and all info available should be used to protect the integrity of the game.

Just chopping the pot when you have evidence would be super obtuse of the floor.

I'd be wary of playing if they just decided to shrug their shoulders and chop the pot as the crappy dealer decided.
 
Just chopping the pot when you have evidence would be super obtuse of the floor.
I’m not sure of that, and I’m not sure there’s evidence of malfeasance. But I’m not arguing any more. I’d like to hear what rules experts or experienced floors have to say about awarding a pot prior to a river card.
 

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