40K Guaranteed Tourney Hand - How To Extract Value Here? (1 Viewer)

I also felt like if he had any piece of the board that 3k into a 12k pot was too inviting for him not to call, so at the same time I was hoping he might bluff shove, I was also going for thin value

His dark check trapped me good
 
I also felt like if he had any piece of the board that 3k into a 12k pot was too inviting for him not to call, so at the same time I was hoping he might bluff shove, I was also going for thin value

His dark check trapped me good
Oh did he check the flop dark? If he did, I missed that. I couldn't figure out why he didn't bet there, but that would explain it.
 
Oh did he check the flop dark? If he did, I missed that. I couldn't figure out why he didn't bet there, but that would explain it.

We all checked the flop, he led the turn, I raised, he looked at me quizzically and made the call and verbally announced he checked dark before the river was dealt, so I figured him for most likely a combo draw
 
It’s far easier to say what you would’ve done after the fact, but during the hand this looks like a slam dunk. However, there are some things that I’d like to say pertaining to this hand.
  1. Why would we ever be folding to a blind min-raise this deep with any pair preflop? Sure, I hate our position, but if we can see a cheap flop then it’s a perfect hand to call and release if we whiff.
  2. By the turn there are a few hands beating us, but I think we would’ve known after the raise that we made if we were in such a spot. This feels like worrying about “monsters under the bed”.
  3. Finally, the river. I’m genuinely befuddled by this. On the one hand, the nine seems like a good card if Villain would call the raise with something like A9. Given his blind min-raises, I get the impression he is maybe a stubborn player who wants to run the table. However, I do ultimately think that I plan to check back the river. We have extracted a good amount of value on the turn.
All in all, this is a rough spot. Plain and simple. We really can’t range villain very well, and his check in the dark makes his range even more polarized.
 
The bet is perfectly sized because the turn raise made the pot too small to just jam. We get called by lots of 9x, the straight, and induces bluffs. This bet isn’t thin at all. Stop getting hung up on “early in the tournament” (doesn’t matter) or “never bluffs” (if you go down this line of thinking you are exploitable). We should be first pumping to get it in here. It’s a cooler. Move on to the next one.

I disagree with just about all of this. I don't think it is a cooler at all. First of all this was a blind raise so there is no point in trying to put him on a range of hands. He can easily have any combination of hands. The flop action really tells us nothing. Most players will check every hand when first to act in a 5 way pot. Villian leads out on the turn and then calls a re raise. So we know he has something. The only thing we can say for sure, after the turn, is that he doesn't have 45. Any decent player is going to 4 bet that turn raise with the nuts and all those draws out there. So we are pretty sure he doesn't have 45. I also don't think he would have just a 9 (maybe but unlikley). Most players will fold there with 1 pair. So he probably has something like 2 pair, a set, or a combo draw. The dark check doesn't mean much, I've seen players do this with a variety of hands. It might indicate that they think they need help, but it doesn't always. Then the 9 comes. Now we have a full house. That's good if he had a combo draw, but he's not going to call your bet with a missed draw. If he has one of the other possible hands, then he very well could have just hit a bigger full house. I don't think checking behind on the river is nitty, I think it is the smart play. Then we have the 3k bet and he goes all in. Do you think he's bluffing? Do you think he has trip 9s and thinks they are good? Maybe 3 9s is good enough for a call, but good enough to shove? Why wouldn't he think you had atleast a straight? I think he could be bluffing, but he's definatley not shoving all in with a straight or trip 9s and thinking it's good.

It also absolutely does matter that it is early in the tournament. Not only for your play, but for your interpretation of the villians.

It also matters that this was a 5 way pot and a dark min raise. I have learned alot of very expensive lessons about getting too aggressive in a pot, with alot of people in it, when I don't hold the nuts.

I think there were quite a few mistakes made in this hand, including the turn raise, the river bet and the all in call.

I'm not saying fold. Call the turn bet, and call a reasonable bet on the river here. You have a strong hand, but this isn't a hand i want to get all of my money in with early in a tournament.
 
It’s far easier to say what you would’ve done after the fact, but during the hand this looks like a slam dunk. However, there are some things that I’d like to say pertaining to this hand.
  1. Why would we ever be folding to a blind min-raise this deep with any pair preflop? Sure, I hate our position, but if we can see a cheap flop then it’s a perfect hand to call and release if we whiff.
Folding > raising > calling preflop here.

We have this fish Mitch burning bbs utg by min raising blind! How weak do we look limping utg+1 to any competent player? We should expect to get raised here often (1) because Mitch just put extra dead money in the pot and (2) we are super capping are range by limping to a blind raise in a tournament!

raising 33 Utg +1 9-10 handed is way too wide imo at this stage in the tournament. low pocket pair are difficult to play oop against good players and we aren’t going to take down the blinds often enough.
 
Folding > raising > calling preflop here.

We have this fish Mitch burning bbs utg by min raising blind! How weak do we look limping utg+1 to any competent player? We should expect to get raised here often (1) because Mitch just put extra dead money in the pot and (2) we are super capping are range by limping to a blind raise in a tournament!

raising 33 Utg +1 9-10 handed is way too wide imo at this stage in the tournament. low pocket pair are difficult to play oop against good players and we aren’t going to take down the blinds often enough.

I agree with just about all of this.

If you do call though, I think you have to play it conservatively with so many people in the pot.
 
Folding > raising > calling preflop here.

We have this fish Mitch burning bbs utg by min raising blind! How weak do we look limping utg+1 to any competent player? We should expect to get raised here often (1) because Mitch just put extra dead money in the pot and (2) we are super capping are range by limping to a blind raise in a tournament!

raising 33 Utg +1 9-10 handed is way too wide imo at this stage in the tournament. low pocket pair are difficult to play oop against good players and we aren’t going to take down the blinds often enough.

Our opinions differ where this is concerned. IMO, calling > folding > raising here. A raise will look like we are trying to bully Villain who is min-raising blind here and a call looks stronger to me. We do also run the risk of someone in later position trying to steal, but we're super deep and this is a hand that we can get away from pretty easily if we completely miss.
 
Mitch can't raise preflop after limpers because you can't straddle in a tourney, the action still ends on the big blind

This early in the tourney there were plenty of folks limping and seeing cheap flops, and we're plenty deep to do so

As far as the river goes, I don't disagree that checking behind is ok. I just had the wrong read and paid for it

As far as folks saying players will never bluff shove there, that's wrong in my experience

This is a rebuy event through level 9 and tjis room gives away seats to this tourney to the high hand of the 2nd tourney level of other events

So there were guys at my table that had multiple tickets they won that aren't afraid to pressure others early, because they can get back in that night or the next three Day 1 flights
 
Balance is key.

Are you betting that small on the river with a missed draw? If not why with a made hand.

I’d play the turn larger so you can set up an easy jam on the river. Sucks he has a combo that beats you here.
 

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