TheArchitect
Sitting Out
Hi all, thanks for all the great info on PCF! I'm new to this and looking to purchase a 300 set for tournaments with close friends. I might be going contrary to forum etiquette, but this thread covers my questions regarding chip set total chips, blind structures, a possible cash game with the same set and opinions on Nexgen Pro Classic chips as opposed to only one subject. I suppose I can split this up into several posts if that is better.
Tournaments will use 25/50 blinds and SS of 5000 = 100BB. We'll usually be 7-8 players but I'd like the set to cover up to 10 players even if it will mean some compromises on total rebuys or having to make change for rebuys from the large stacks in play. I'd also like to be able to use the set for a cash game with .25/.25 blinds and $25 buy-in which is 100BB which will mean dividing all denominations by 100. I'm not worried about using the same set for both as we will not be playing both on the same night and it will be possible to verify if any chips are missing at the end of the night.
Breakdown I am thinking of : T25 x 100, T100 x 100, T500 x 25, T1000 x 50, T5000 x 25 for a total of 300 chips. Each denom must be a multiple of 25 as Canadian sellers only sell by roll of 25. I am considering adding an extra roll of 25 x T500 to this set of 300 just in case I need them. I'm not sure it there will be room in the case for 25 chips if I remove a deck of cards from the case. If there's no room in the case, I'll add an acrylic rack, but even that's not ideal as 5 chips will be loose in the rack. Perhaps I'll be able to leave those 5 loose in the case instead.
SS of 5000 for 10 players would be 8/8/2/3; for 8 players I can increase the lower denom chips and have SS of 12/12/1/3; I think I can add a T5000 to both of these for a deeper game with SS of 10 000 and still make it work with a max of 5 rebuys in the first hour (rebuys will be limited to 1 per person in the first hour and I don't think more than 5 will bust - if it does happen, it's not a big deal as the goal is a friendly game and we'll adjust in the future to have no re-buys or not use SS = 10 000 for 10 players).
I'm not sure of the blind structure for this tournament and if we should chip-up the T25 and T100 as the blinds progress (it might not be a good idea to chip-up the T-100 as it will mean too little chips in play, then again, there should be fewer players by that point in the tourney). Here is where I am at with the blinds including proposed chip-ups:
Blinds
25/50; 50/100; 75/150; 100/200; 150/300 (Note: increases are 1.5x previous except for the 1st increase)
Break to chip-up T25 - I have seen some recommendations that insert the break after 4 blind increases, but then you have to jump to 200/300 or 200/400 because there will be no more T25 to make it 150/300 after the break
200/400; 300/600; 400/800; 500/1000 (Note: 1.5x does not work for the jump from 150/300 or from 300/600 as T25 would be needed) Question: should the last increase be to 500/1000 or 600/1200? It seems that 500/1000 is a more natural denomination and easier in general.
Break - not sure if I can/should chip-up T100 as I only have 50 xT500, 50 x T1000 and 25 x T5000 (with the extra T500 mentioned above)
800/1500 (or 800/1600? 750 SB does not work as no more T25); 1000/2000; 1500/3000; 2000/4000 - The first blinds after the 2nd break are required to avoid a 2x jump to 1000/2000; but what should they be? I think it would be odd to use something like 800/1600 and continue 1.5x at 1200/2400 and so on as we end up in blinds a little more complicated than last 3 indicated. It's the same reason not to continue with 600/1200; 900/1800... It seems cleaner to go 500/1000; 800/1500; 1000/2000; 1500/3000; 2000/4000. I'm sure the game will end before we get to the last blinds, but it just seems easier/natural for the math and chips in play.
Cash game of .25/.25, buy-in will be $25 with SS for 10 players of 8/8/1/1 while for 8 players it can be 12/12/2 again for more lower denom chips in play. This should allow for rebuys even if we need to use larger denominations and make change from the large stacks in play. There will be no blind increases for these cash games. I'm not sure how it will affect the game to have both SB and BB involved in pots that are not raised before the blinds, but it is the only feasible cash game with this set as I imagine it will be hard to try and use the color of the chips alone when the chips have numbers on them that have nothing to do with their "cash" value. It will be too confusing.
Poker chips: I am in Canada and shipping from providers like Apache and other US based sites is very high. I understand that poker chip sets can weigh quite a bit, but over $40 USD for shipping is making purchasing from the US too prohibitive (not to mention our low CDN $!). As much as Apache's products and web site are interesting, I am limited to Canadian providers. There are two that include shipping with purchases over $65 CDN, but their product lines are a little limited mainly offering slugged chips (and dice or Superdiamond - no thanks!). Reading PCF has convinced me that slugged chips are to be avoided and that 14g is too heavy! That leaves mainly China clays and ceramics. Milanos are interesting but only available here with Crazy Horse labels which I dislike (and a history of production issues regarding thickness - apparently resolved post 2017). Amazon does not allow for choosing the set breakdowns, therefore not an option. China ceramics are a little too expensive for the Laurel Crowns or Scroll (I don't like them enough to pay those prices), although I'd consider Tiki Kings but neither provider has these as an option. Based on Hobbyphilic's videos and comments in general regarding Nexgen Pro Classic chips, these are the chips I am considering as they are available here with shipping for $105 CDN for a set of 300 with aluminum case and $115 CDN with a wood case. I know they are neither clay or ceramic, but they seem to be appreciated by many. I believe that the aluminum case is of the flimsy kind I've read about, so I'm considering the wood case. Another option is what I have seen referred to as "Tournament Pro Series" which have Texas Holdem' written around the perimeter. They are 12g so I'm not sure if they are slugged.
I apologise for covering so much ground here. I will appreciate any help with your experience on any of the above!
Tournaments will use 25/50 blinds and SS of 5000 = 100BB. We'll usually be 7-8 players but I'd like the set to cover up to 10 players even if it will mean some compromises on total rebuys or having to make change for rebuys from the large stacks in play. I'd also like to be able to use the set for a cash game with .25/.25 blinds and $25 buy-in which is 100BB which will mean dividing all denominations by 100. I'm not worried about using the same set for both as we will not be playing both on the same night and it will be possible to verify if any chips are missing at the end of the night.
Breakdown I am thinking of : T25 x 100, T100 x 100, T500 x 25, T1000 x 50, T5000 x 25 for a total of 300 chips. Each denom must be a multiple of 25 as Canadian sellers only sell by roll of 25. I am considering adding an extra roll of 25 x T500 to this set of 300 just in case I need them. I'm not sure it there will be room in the case for 25 chips if I remove a deck of cards from the case. If there's no room in the case, I'll add an acrylic rack, but even that's not ideal as 5 chips will be loose in the rack. Perhaps I'll be able to leave those 5 loose in the case instead.
SS of 5000 for 10 players would be 8/8/2/3; for 8 players I can increase the lower denom chips and have SS of 12/12/1/3; I think I can add a T5000 to both of these for a deeper game with SS of 10 000 and still make it work with a max of 5 rebuys in the first hour (rebuys will be limited to 1 per person in the first hour and I don't think more than 5 will bust - if it does happen, it's not a big deal as the goal is a friendly game and we'll adjust in the future to have no re-buys or not use SS = 10 000 for 10 players).
I'm not sure of the blind structure for this tournament and if we should chip-up the T25 and T100 as the blinds progress (it might not be a good idea to chip-up the T-100 as it will mean too little chips in play, then again, there should be fewer players by that point in the tourney). Here is where I am at with the blinds including proposed chip-ups:
Blinds
25/50; 50/100; 75/150; 100/200; 150/300 (Note: increases are 1.5x previous except for the 1st increase)
Break to chip-up T25 - I have seen some recommendations that insert the break after 4 blind increases, but then you have to jump to 200/300 or 200/400 because there will be no more T25 to make it 150/300 after the break
200/400; 300/600; 400/800; 500/1000 (Note: 1.5x does not work for the jump from 150/300 or from 300/600 as T25 would be needed) Question: should the last increase be to 500/1000 or 600/1200? It seems that 500/1000 is a more natural denomination and easier in general.
Break - not sure if I can/should chip-up T100 as I only have 50 xT500, 50 x T1000 and 25 x T5000 (with the extra T500 mentioned above)
800/1500 (or 800/1600? 750 SB does not work as no more T25); 1000/2000; 1500/3000; 2000/4000 - The first blinds after the 2nd break are required to avoid a 2x jump to 1000/2000; but what should they be? I think it would be odd to use something like 800/1600 and continue 1.5x at 1200/2400 and so on as we end up in blinds a little more complicated than last 3 indicated. It's the same reason not to continue with 600/1200; 900/1800... It seems cleaner to go 500/1000; 800/1500; 1000/2000; 1500/3000; 2000/4000. I'm sure the game will end before we get to the last blinds, but it just seems easier/natural for the math and chips in play.
Cash game of .25/.25, buy-in will be $25 with SS for 10 players of 8/8/1/1 while for 8 players it can be 12/12/2 again for more lower denom chips in play. This should allow for rebuys even if we need to use larger denominations and make change from the large stacks in play. There will be no blind increases for these cash games. I'm not sure how it will affect the game to have both SB and BB involved in pots that are not raised before the blinds, but it is the only feasible cash game with this set as I imagine it will be hard to try and use the color of the chips alone when the chips have numbers on them that have nothing to do with their "cash" value. It will be too confusing.
Poker chips: I am in Canada and shipping from providers like Apache and other US based sites is very high. I understand that poker chip sets can weigh quite a bit, but over $40 USD for shipping is making purchasing from the US too prohibitive (not to mention our low CDN $!). As much as Apache's products and web site are interesting, I am limited to Canadian providers. There are two that include shipping with purchases over $65 CDN, but their product lines are a little limited mainly offering slugged chips (and dice or Superdiamond - no thanks!). Reading PCF has convinced me that slugged chips are to be avoided and that 14g is too heavy! That leaves mainly China clays and ceramics. Milanos are interesting but only available here with Crazy Horse labels which I dislike (and a history of production issues regarding thickness - apparently resolved post 2017). Amazon does not allow for choosing the set breakdowns, therefore not an option. China ceramics are a little too expensive for the Laurel Crowns or Scroll (I don't like them enough to pay those prices), although I'd consider Tiki Kings but neither provider has these as an option. Based on Hobbyphilic's videos and comments in general regarding Nexgen Pro Classic chips, these are the chips I am considering as they are available here with shipping for $105 CDN for a set of 300 with aluminum case and $115 CDN with a wood case. I know they are neither clay or ceramic, but they seem to be appreciated by many. I believe that the aluminum case is of the flimsy kind I've read about, so I'm considering the wood case. Another option is what I have seen referred to as "Tournament Pro Series" which have Texas Holdem' written around the perimeter. They are 12g so I'm not sure if they are slugged.
I apologise for covering so much ground here. I will appreciate any help with your experience on any of the above!
