1/2/5 PLO Hand against the crazies (1 Viewer)

[Anthony Martino]

Full table, full of a lot of guys who love to gamble. Many buyin for $200-400 and will straddle to 10, 20, 40 and even 80 sometimes just trying to get it all-in preflop or jam the flop and build up stacks.

Hero is CO in this hand and has a tight-aggressive image. Started with 1K and has chipped up to 2700 trapping the nutzos to getting it in preflop when Hero has had strong AAxx holdings.

Stack sizes at the table range from 300-2500.

Mandatory button straddle is on for $5 and the SB has restraddled to $10.

SB ($800) gambler restraddles to $10
BB ($2500) gambler calls $10
UTG ($700) gambler calls $10
UTG+2 ($400) gambler raises to $20
MP ($900) gambler calls $20
HJ ($800) gambler raises to $100
CO ($2700) Hero looks down at

Hero?????

These are players that will call all-in last in a multi-way pot with garbage like 2336 and Q976 single suited and other such trash.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Honestly I fold. Jacks are a crappy pair. The club flush draw is weak. The 2 is trash dangler. We have no guarantee we see the flop for $100. Calling here is just as much gambling as the rest of them.

 

[Forty4]

Good that’s what I was thinking but wasn’t sure as I don’t play nearly as much PLO

 

[Payback]

Which two players are the colluding ones? This is hugely important in a situation like this.

Either way I'm 99% folding here. That 2 is a killer.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Which two players are the colluding ones? This is hugely important in a situation like this.

Either way I'm 99% folding here. That 2 is a killer.

The guy who juiced to $20 and the CO who repopped to $100

 

[WedgeRock]

I'd flat, make 2 pair on the river, then pick off a pot sized river bet when Villain's line doesn't make sense.

 

[Payback]

The guy who juiced to $20 and the CO who repopped to $100

You should get a new license plate based off this hand.

1FOREST1

 

[DrStrange]

Hero might have a small edge but that is all he has vs a random hand. Toss in just one "normal" player trapping and Hero could be in a sort of bad way. { bad meaning a five percent dog. } Hero is going to play tonight folding 95% of his hands and going wild with the very few best hands and even then is only getting a modest overlay vs the crazy folk.

Just fold, order a soda and wait for the goods -=- DrStrange

PS you know this means folding for an hour to get one good hand?

 

[skylines]

Stones? you little punk, I'm not playing for the thrill of fucking victory here, I owe rent, alimony, child support, I play for money, my kids eat, I got stones enough not to chase card actions of fucking pipe dreams of winning the world series on ESPN, but about the [dangler deuce] I've got to turn my back, I've got to say no

 

[Hornet]

Do you really want to gamble for stacks pre flop with that hand? If that brings you joy, go for it.

Personally, I don’t want to gamble for stacks there and it’s not even close.

I also find a better game than one where people are constantly getting it in pf.

 

[detroitdad]

Honestly I fold. Jacks are a crappy pair. The club flush draw is weak. The 2 is trash dangler. We have no guarantee we see the flop for $100. Calling here is just as much gambling as the rest of them.

I agree. I'm looking at a flop if I know I can see it cheaply. Since that doesn't sound like an option I'm folding pre.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Full table, full of a lot of guys who love to gamble. Many buyin for $200-400 and will straddle to 10, 20, 40 and even 80 sometimes just trying to get it all-in preflop or jam the flop and build up stacks.

Hero is CO in this hand and has a tight-aggressive image. Started with 1K and has chipped up to 2700 trapping the nutzos to getting it in preflop when Hero has had strong AAxx holdings.

Stack sizes at the table range from 300-2500.

Mandatory button straddle is on for $5 and the SB has restraddled to $10.

SB ($800) gambler restraddles to $10
BB ($2500) gambler calls $10
UTG ($700) gambler calls $10
UTG+2 ($400) gambler raises to $20
MP ($900) gambler calls $20
HJ ($800) gambler raises to $100
CO ($2700) Hero looks down at

Hero figures he is ahead of the gamblers raising range here and repots to $390 (original numbers may be slightly off, but the repot was to $390)

It folds to the BB ($2500) who repots to $1,350

UTG+2 ($400) calls it off, HJ ($800) calls it off, back to Hero

While Hero is considering, the BB starts speaking in rough english (cuban guy, mid 30's)

Hero can make out he's asking if I have suited Kings. Then he starts saying "wrap, wrap, I have wrap!" and shows 85 offsuit, but does not reveal the other two cards

This Villain in a previous hand had raised preflop with Q864 one suit after limpers, bet pot on a Q93 two diamond flop (he didn't have diamonds) of $175, gotten one button caller, then the SB that hand check-raised all-in for $800 and he repotted to protect his top pair no kicker?

He tells Hero he only will run it once but as Hero contemplates he then says "twice, twice, I go twice" and continues to show off his 85 offsuit to the table laughing and saying "I have wrap!"

Hero asks dealer if that would be binding (running it twice) and is told it wouldn't, Hero?????

 

[mipevi]

While it's true someone could be trapping, the people generally getting money in very loose pre makes up for it as I think we expect at least a 5-6 way pot? Under these circumstances this looks like a somewhat +EV (by a few %'s) hand to play, but the variance is obviously going to be insane. The only thing to really worry about is the BB, as you could end up in a large HU side pot with the worst of it. If hero decides to play, his goal should be to keep the hand multiway, so just call.

As played, it's a bit of a gross spot, although luckily BB seems like a spazzy player with possibly a wide range (though suited kings seem plausible lol). Do the revealed cards block your flushes? In any case I think you should call since you already know two of his cards with money behind...

 

[Hornet]

Since apparently no rules apply to this game, I ask the villain to show me his other two cards. If he doesn’t, I likely fold, pick up, and don’t ever return to this game.

 

[Anthony Martino]

The 85 he is flashing are a diamond and heart, we have black cards

 

[WedgeRock]

Why is the Cuban guy not admonished for showing his hand in a mult-way pot witha player yet to act? Dealer should be stopping it and calling over the floor.

Oh wait.

Since apparently no rules apply to this game

I'm with @Hornet. This game is sooo unprotected, I don't like sitting here. If I'm one of the other players and you call because you know two of Cuban's cards, and you drag the pot that I would've won if you folded, I'd be furious.

This game is bunk, I don't care how profitable it is.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Fwiw, when I asked the dealer if it was binding when he said he'd run it twice, she said he wasn't even supposed to be showing his cards or talking about how many times he'd run it, but didn't bother to direct him otherwise

 

[Rhodeman77]

I hope Hero has a bank roll of at least $50k (minimum) to handle the swings this game will have. There are going to be times where he loses 3 coin flip type hands in a night and be down $3k. Have this happen a few sessions in a row and Hero is down $10k in a week. Trust me when I say it can happen, I’ve had it happen and I’ve never put $1200 in preflop with AJJ2 double suited in a $1/2/5 game.

 

[Hornet]

^^^^^
Exactly this!

 

[moose]

CO ($2700) Hero

Hero????

Cashes out and makes extra mortgage payment.

 

[k9dr]

I suspect villain has AA possibly suited to go with his 8 and 5 and is hoping you will stack off with KK. I prefer games with rules that are enforced.

 

[DrStrange]

Hero is "comfortably" ahead of a middle wrap, maybe 55/45 worst case. So that is fine for the big side pot.

But if villain is telling lies and actually holds a pair bigger than jacks then Hero is a sizeable dog - say something like a 40/60 dog.

There are more "big pairs" hands possible than pure wrap hands but it is close. 15 pairs vs 16 wraps. Toss in something extra to account for lies from BB - call it 3:2 that BB has the big pair hand vs wrap.

Looks to me like a pure gamble in the heads-up pot, perhaps slightly -ev, before we consider the dead money already invested in the main pot.

Let's estimate the main pot at $400 x 4 plus $100 = $1,700.
First side pot at $1,200 more
The head's up pot will eventually be $3,400

Assume Hero has a slight edge in equity for the main and first side pot. Say 28% equity in the four-way main and 35% equity in the three way first side pot. This is worth something like $900.

Hero still owes $400 to the first side pot, plus $1,700 to the heads-up pot. { hero isn't folding post flop unless the flop smashes 8-5-x-x, which isn't that common}

Even if Hero is a 40/60 dog, he "only" loses $340 vs the $500 he gains from the main plus first side pot.

I think hero is getting paid well enough to gamble, though in large part he is getting paid with what was once Hero's money invested in a $390 repot wager. If Hero had just folded to begin with, he would have be hundreds of dollars better off. Putting good money in after bad indeed.

Let 'er rip, pray for luck, get out a rebuy -=- DrStrange

PS because the equities are so thin, Hero's situation is "fragile". Even a slight change makes a sizable difference, most of them harmful. Folding ***might*** be marginally -ev but still proper considering the buy-in structure

 

[Hornet]

I won’t ever argue with the math of @DrStrange, but to me this is mainly about bankroll management. If you start wagering $2500 pre flop with hands like the one you have, there is a good chance your bankroll won’t last long unless it’s the size @Rhodeman77 suggested.

 

[DrStrange]

I see this as a fold on Hero's first action. But after he puts $390 in play, then it become tempting to try and recover with a high variance play. Hero is only trying to turn a -$390 prospective fold into a -$200 jam. If I could turn back time, the fold looks better now than it did 90 seconds ago.

It is hard to assign a value to Hero's $2,700 stack. Obviously at least $2,700, but I think the nature of this cast of characters plus a $400 buy-in cap makes it worth a bit more. This might be enough to tip the balance to folding and kissing $390 good bye.

Anyone playing PLO best be prepared for high variance - both from a bankroll perspective and a personal state of mind perspective. There are lots of times when the game boils down to massive flips - normally post flop, but in this game preflop.

 

[Rhodeman77]

PLO is designed to be a post flop game, hence POT LIMIT as opposed to NO LIMIT that lets players go all-in preflop

This game allowing multiple straddles is going against the design of the game.

I don’t understand how the SB can re-straddle even?!?

 

[Payback]

I hope Hero has a bank roll of at least $50k (minimum) to handle the swings this game will have. There are going to be times where he loses 3 coin flip type hands in a night and be down $3k. Have this happen a few sessions in a row and Hero is down $10k in a week. Trust me when I say it can happen, I’ve had it happen and I’ve never put $1200 in preflop with AJJ2 double suited in a $1/2/5 game.

50k? No way. Need a lot more with the $10 straddle running not to mention the 20/40/80 straddle. 100k is probably too little as well especially if we are shoveling money in with a 3 card Omaha hand.

Not to get to far off topic here, but a fairly well known NLHE pro and I were talking just the other week on bankrolls. He plays with no less than 200 buy ins for a particular stake for live games, more online, and that's for holdem.

 

[Beakertwang]

50k? No way. Need a lot more with the $10 straddle running not to mention the 20/40/80 straddle. 100k is probably too little as well especially if we are shoveling money in with a 3 card Omaha hand.

Not to get to far off topic here, but a fairly well known NLHE pro and I were talking just the other week on bankrolls. He plays with no less than 200 buy ins for a particular stake for live games, more online, and that's for holdem.

I'm going to take a job delivering pizzas to build my bankroll up to $4000 for my 5¢/10¢ game.

 

[Anthony Martino]

plus a $400 buy-in cap makes it worth a bit more.

The buyins are 200-1k in this game. A lot of guys buyin small and try to quadruple it up in one ppt

 

[Rhodeman77]

A pro is going to need a lot more bankroll than an a rec player. Rec players may only be playing 1-2 times per week and and have other income to pay bills. The pro needs a much larger cushion.

Also I doubt this game has those crazy straddle amounts happening on a regular basis.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Also I doubt this game has those crazy straddle amounts happening on a regular basis.

Runs every week, multiple tables