Donk betting me on A high board? No respeck... (1 Viewer)

I agree with @Pokerdweebz completely on everything he has said thus far in response to @thorwilliam. Namely we have no chance at implied odds when we only have 55% PSB left on the river. I'm at work and can only type on my phone so I will go into more detail of my thought process later but pokerdweebz has been right on line with my thought process. It's a clear fold or shove spot on the turn
 
I will also add that I can't only ever be shoving my value hands here and that this is a good spot to shove a semi bluff as I do feel marginally behind here. Showing the 9 of hearts to the table and villain sets up a table image for me for the rest of the session and potentially future sessions as this is my new home casino. It did prove to work out very nicely as I was able to use that image to my advantage the rest of the night
 
I agree with @Pokerdweebz completely on everything he has said thus far in response to @thorwilliam. Namely we have no chance at implied odds when we only have 55% PSB left on the river. I'm at work and can only type on my phone so I will go into more detail of my thought process later but pokerdweebz has been right on line with my thought process. It's a clear fold or shove spot on the turn
I'm not surprised. None of you seems to understand basic poker concepts and none of you seems to be interested in re-evaluating your thought processes.
 
I'm not surprised. None of you seems to understand basic poker concepts and none of you seems to be interested in re-evaluating your thought processes.

You haven't really given any reasonable/in depth reasoning behind your thoughts so it's hard to go off of anything that isn't justified by math or logic. I am more than open to consider your thoughts if you provide some sort of proof behind your thoughts. Also, I would appreciate it!
 
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It is clear that Hero has a massive villain read that wasn't shared in the thread. That is a handy thing to have, but it complicates strategy discussions.

I am at a loss to explain how a villain that is 100% sure to jam all-in on the river with a hand that beats Hero's hand is going to fold his better hand to a half-pot turn raise by hero.

If the argument is "villain is pot committed by his turn bet" (which by the way is an excellent reason to fold the turn.), then that line of thinking works both ways. The villain is always betting the river with a better hand and he is also always going to call a turn bluff by hero getting just under 3-1 pot odds to call.

Perhaps Hero knows villain is a "glass cannon", powerful when being the aggressor but turns into a chicken when facing aggression. There are players like that - - - it is a very useful thing to know about a player.

Do we actually know villain's holding? Best I can tell, we don't. I have to wonder if Hero's hand was good all along given villain's decision to fold the turn.
 
It is clear that Hero has a massive villain read that wasn't shared in the thread. That is a handy thing to have, but it complicates strategy discussions.

I am at a loss to explain how a villain that is 100% sure to jam all-in on the river with a hand that beats Hero's hand is going to fold his better hand to a half-pot turn raise by hero.

This relies on reads/information that was unavailable when making my analysis. I made my analysis against the standard 1/2 player pool.

If the argument is "villain is pot committed by his turn bet" (which by the way is an excellent reason to fold the turn.), then that line of thinking works both ways. The villain is always betting the river with a better hand and he is also always going to call a turn bluff by hero getting just under 3-1 pot odds to call.

At 1/2 plenty of villains will fold to a raise on the turn even if they would jam river. So I disagree there. I said the top decision would be to fold turn so we don't disagree there if that's what you think.

Perhaps Hero knows villain is a "glass cannon", powerful when being the aggressor but turns into a chicken when facing aggression. There are players like that - - - it is a very useful thing to know about a player.

In my experience plenty of 1/2 villains 3 barrel donk with just an ace here, but reconsider their action when facing a raise on flop or turn. If you disagree fair enough.

Do we actually know villain's holding? Best I can tell, we don't. I have to wonder if Hero's hand was good all along given villain's decision to fold the turn.
As told I think villain folded a better hand seeing how he was mad when hero shows the 9h.
 
I'm with doc here as well. What do we accomplish by raising here?

We sometimes get a small % of worse hands to call but we never fold out better given the pot size. We fold out all his bluffs.

The only argument for raising is that we stop ourselves from getting bluffed off our equity on the river. This is a false positive though as raising the turn here is only plus ev when we already have the best hand.

I would flat call, if your read is that villain is bluffing you win one more bet then you do by jamming. If your read is that your behind (most likely option given the information available on villain up to the point where he folded) you give your self the chance to improve to the best hand.

I don't think we have to call all rivers vs every opponent. I also think folding vs some opponents would be a mistake. Given the information we have on villain in this thread (before the turn fold) I would figure a river bet to seldom be a bluff, though it appears that you left out some critical reads on villains play style.

I would add also that while villains range includes a lot of value, there are certainly some combinations of bluffs and semi bluffs as well. As we have no way to accurately assign a range to villain, you have to use the average player pool range. I would be pretty confident that average 1/3 casino player is bluffing to often and with the wrong hands here. Enough that I think we can call turn and evaluate our river decision.
 
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Once hero flats twice hero has a lot of AK/AQ/AJ as well as all sets and A8. villain can't fire a third river barrel with hands like AT.

I'd actually say hero has as much fold equity when checked to on river as he does on a turn shove.

Villain is not three barreling AT against the PFR here. I think this is a call on the turn. And check back on river if checked to, or fold to a shove unless we hit the draw.

Edit: on second thought, I think I can see an argument for a small value bet otr if we miss and villain checks
 
PF raise & flop call are obvious imo. I can't see our motivation to bet the turn & we can't fold. Turn call seems obvious to me too.
Fold to river shove unless we make 2 pair or better.
If checked to, shove all rivers.
 
That's just part of the game. Poker is full of donks. Especially, now that its become the most popular gambling game (besides sports betting). I liken it very much to financial stocks. "Oh, my stock should have gone up!!!" Same premise. Limited information, an evolving "board" of information, and a resolution (clear winner, clear loser).
 

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