Moxie Mike
Full House
Nothing to see here.
Last edited:
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When did this hobby change (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter krafticus
- Start date
timinater
Flush
I’ve learned that some individuals don’t add to my enjoyment of this forum. I was loathe to use the ignore feature a while ago, but lately I’ve been curating my PCF experience with the ignore button 10/10 would recommend.
I would also enjoy a way to select which forums appear when I click “new posts”.
I would also enjoy a way to select which forums appear when I click “new posts”.
Wrong thread
justsomedude
Royal Flush
I don’t think you’re entirely wrong.
I was talking about this very issue with some other chippers this past fall, and one of them summed it up fairly accurately by saying, “I feel like it was once a community, and now it’s become a marketplace.”
Not saying one is right or the other is wrong. And maybe it’s both? Things change. This is the current change. It just is what it is.
I was talking about this very issue with some other chippers this past fall, and one of them summed it up fairly accurately by saying, “I feel like it was once a community, and now it’s become a marketplace.”
Not saying one is right or the other is wrong. And maybe it’s both? Things change. This is the current change. It just is what it is.
Moxie Mike
Full House
This isn't the out of context thread?
heisman
Two Pair
Oops, literally me. I came to PCF looking for purchasing advice on my first set of Paulsons. But if I hadn't come with the intention to buy, I may not even have joined at all! So bottom line is, thank you all for introducing me to this wonderful hobby. And by hobby I mean addiction. And by addiction I mean crippling debt and depression. I have 3.5 playable Paulson cash sets now thanks
I noticed a big change before the NAGB reveal where it seemed the site shifted from a community to more of a marketplace.
I wasnt very active when I started but there did seem to be more focus on helping out new members, etc (I can thank my Paulson addiction on free Paradice chips I was sent after I started, wish I knew who it was, PM/post is long gone). Now it seems to be on what chips can be bought or sold to new members.
Before the NAGB there seemed to be some big gouging occurring by those lucky enough to make a big find (craigslist, eBay, estate sale, etc) and those lucky enough to buy big at vendor Cincinatti/Cleveland sales.
I have no idea what the answer is as far as pricing. I rarely sell my chips so not something I expect to deal with. I tried a few auctions for a few samples I had but stopped because I was uncomfortable with how high some people were willing to go.
There are a lot of great people on this site and it is a wonderful resource, so a lot to still enjoy!
I wasnt very active when I started but there did seem to be more focus on helping out new members, etc (I can thank my Paulson addiction on free Paradice chips I was sent after I started, wish I knew who it was, PM/post is long gone). Now it seems to be on what chips can be bought or sold to new members.
Before the NAGB there seemed to be some big gouging occurring by those lucky enough to make a big find (craigslist, eBay, estate sale, etc) and those lucky enough to buy big at vendor Cincinatti/Cleveland sales.
I have no idea what the answer is as far as pricing. I rarely sell my chips so not something I expect to deal with. I tried a few auctions for a few samples I had but stopped because I was uncomfortable with how high some people were willing to go.
There are a lot of great people on this site and it is a wonderful resource, so a lot to still enjoy!
FordPickup92
Royal Flush
PCF or no PCF your games are still the best ever and I look forward to seeing you and having a blast every month. Thank you for being an awesome host and great friend!
heisman
Two Pair
Thank you!! I already owe a ton of members here!If there's anything else we can do for you, please let us know.
markleteenie
4 of a Kind
The .5 is what always gets you. Somehow turns into 2 more, damn Hydra effect.
justsomedude
Royal Flush
Markets correct themselves...
We're kind of sitting at "peak poker 2.0" with a resurgence in the game's popularity, and a huge influx of new members. Also, art and collectibles in general are used as cash/value stores during boom times. The value hold of art and collectibles right now, combined with the recent increase in poker's popularity, have combined to give us some of the highest chip prices in the hobby's history.
However, markets are cyclical... all it takes is a slight shift in the financial situations of a few individuals, and suddenly people will start offloading sets at a loss to realize liquidity. This creates a snowball effect of downward pricing pressure as people compete to offload collections before prices fall even further.
Will chip valuations go back to 2005 prices? Doubtful.
Will they drop/correct at some point? Certainly.
Constant growth (in any market) is unsustainable. Furthermore, most economists say we are 3-years overdue for a recession. Eventually that recession will come, and those who will need to cash out those "value stores" of poker chip collections will be the ones taking a loss. But if you're in the hobby for the long haul, you can avoid being a casualty of the market swings. Or at least minimize its impact.
heisman
Two Pair
That 0.5 is the difference between me flipping a table or flipping my bank account
All my opinion....
I had a good run at Chip talk and a good run here. Chip talk felt different, I swear, some days were just layers of pics and mockups.
It's different now. A lot more paulsons, a lot more chips period. Money is running at a level that was unheard of. The game changed a bit ago....
It felt like Chip talk was a group of "rando degens" who were enjoying it. Here, it's a marketplace with content creators like any other main site. The ones that do it out of passion for the hobby. We have a ton of new people coming in, but Ill say the ratio to lookie-loos to Brie/Ben's is pretty one sided (nothing wrong with that, by the way. We welcome everyone.)
I still adore a lot of people here, and still love content. But it has changed....
I'm fucking rambling. Don't mind me.
I had a good run at Chip talk and a good run here. Chip talk felt different, I swear, some days were just layers of pics and mockups.
It's different now. A lot more paulsons, a lot more chips period. Money is running at a level that was unheard of. The game changed a bit ago....
It felt like Chip talk was a group of "rando degens" who were enjoying it. Here, it's a marketplace with content creators like any other main site. The ones that do it out of passion for the hobby. We have a ton of new people coming in, but Ill say the ratio to lookie-loos to Brie/Ben's is pretty one sided (nothing wrong with that, by the way. We welcome everyone.)
I still adore a lot of people here, and still love content. But it has changed....
I'm fucking rambling. Don't mind me.
You ok Josh? I read it twice and didn’t see any trolling.
Sorry, been making a lot of content in the garage. MURDERRRRR
Psypher1000
Straight Flush
RED TO THE MOTHER FUCKIN’ RUM, BITCH!
Psst. You.... You want a sample? See... A little bit of murder?....
Zmasterben
Flush
Oh great, now Josh has a hype man... Just what we needed
TeamNapoli
Straight
I'm not trying to be an ass and completely understand your issue, but what does it matter on how many sale posts are listed. There is enough room for everything and everyone.
There are discussions on ultrasonic cleaning, poker table making, game rules, chip buying and selling, chip pron, live stacks, bad beats, home game setups and 3d printing.
If your not into the sales dont click on the post. Perhaps the question should be, Why arent members starting new discussions about taxing game winnings (seemed seasonal with april around the corner) or local gambling laws or how to play your stack when close to the money line in a tournament.
I would say I am fairly new here, and have purchased a set and currently purchasing chips to make a new custom set.
Some post that discuss labels and label artists, gave me the idea that i can have my very own personal set. Then posts on milling showed how to up the game from label overs. Then you hear from the anti-millers (aka chip pro-lifers) kicking an screaming at pictures of clay scrapings covering a drill press.
Perhaps chip sales increase the PCF population, thus generating more casual conversations, more networking to home games, more ideas. Yes there are profiteers; but that is the law of supply and demand. If there is a demand then there will be a supply. With that said there will also be losses for those who over paid. I am happy for the vendors here, i can get what i need from honest, experienced and talented folks. They are very helpful to the community, dont pressure into purchasing.
There are discussions on ultrasonic cleaning, poker table making, game rules, chip buying and selling, chip pron, live stacks, bad beats, home game setups and 3d printing.
If your not into the sales dont click on the post. Perhaps the question should be, Why arent members starting new discussions about taxing game winnings (seemed seasonal with april around the corner) or local gambling laws or how to play your stack when close to the money line in a tournament.
I would say I am fairly new here, and have purchased a set and currently purchasing chips to make a new custom set.
Some post that discuss labels and label artists, gave me the idea that i can have my very own personal set. Then posts on milling showed how to up the game from label overs. Then you hear from the anti-millers (aka chip pro-lifers) kicking an screaming at pictures of clay scrapings covering a drill press.
Perhaps chip sales increase the PCF population, thus generating more casual conversations, more networking to home games, more ideas. Yes there are profiteers; but that is the law of supply and demand. If there is a demand then there will be a supply. With that said there will also be losses for those who over paid. I am happy for the vendors here, i can get what i need from honest, experienced and talented folks. They are very helpful to the community, dont pressure into purchasing.
I feel like pressuring someone to purchase something.
Couldn’t agree more. Love my chips but it is definitely the people I’ve met through chipping that make the hobby great for me.
@Saoliver is one of the most genuinely nicest guys I've met. He's actually my first real friend out of this hobby, and made me understand a totally different aspect. Now, outside of this single post I'd call him a douche and post a LetterKenny YouTube movie.
And I'll deny I ever wrote this. Fake news.
Psypher1000
Straight Flush
PCF is a forum consisting of chippers, poker players, douches, and degens.
This is your problem.
To be brutally honest, the shift from a small community of chippers exchanging sets at cost, to the quick-buck money-grabbing marketplace we see today is primarily due to Jim S and his TheChipRoom sales. And before you pick up your pitchfork, hear me out....
Once upon a time, long ago, there was this utopian land they called ChipTalk -- where people who shared a love of little clay discs could congregate and discuss, admire, covet, create, and trade said items. There were few real casino sets available then, they were elusive and crazy expensive, and wanted by many -- but those who were lucky to have them didn't want to sell, because there was nothing with which to replace them. This drove the people with high-end clay addiction to get their fix from other sources -- some chose to chase the initial fantasy sets previously made by Paulson, while others chose to get custom sets made (TRK, ASM, and BCC)... all of which were expensive options. Even the GPI-produced Paulson sets for home use made available through Trademark Poker, including the CT-group buy Pharaoh's Club chips, were a relatively expensive purchase at the time.
Those who didn't have the disposible income for either typically opted for plastic chips or ceramics (also expensive at the time), and saved their pennies for future purchases. Sometimes people would get lucky with a "chip find", and usually kept what they wanted/needed and sold off the balance to other chippers at cost. It's just how it was done. We were there to support each other in our addiction, not to take advantage or profit from the wants and desires of our fellow addicts -- after all, the same had been done for us, by many before us. It was a true community, and those few who dared try to capitalize on it were vocally attacked and shunned.
The clay chip world changed forever when TheChipRoom started bringing real casino chips to the marketplace, in bulk and at rock-bottom prices. For most chippers, this was a godsend -- incredible chips previously considered totally out of reach, now accessible in large quantities at previously unheard-of low prices. Prayers had been answered.
There were, however, two distinct downsides to this otherwise miraculous opportunity: 1) the market value of the previous generation of unobtainable 'grail' sets plummeted dramatically (bad for those who owned them, good for those that wanted them), and 2) people from outside the small chipping community saw it as an easy way to make a quick profit by buying as many of the chips as possible and then immediately reselling them at inflated prices -- mostly to those who missed out on the initial sales. This too drew the ire of the community at large, and changes were made to how TCR sales were run to help minimize the effect of "flipper" activities.... but the damage was done, and the chipping world started to change.
For the most part, chips were still bought and sold between members at cost or near-cost. But highly-desireable chips were often in the control of a few profiteering individuals, and members were forced to pay high prices in order to finish sets. And with each succesive Chip Room sale, it got worse -- more members, more sharks, more money-hungry flipping.
This all began long before the monetization of CT, which further pushed the business aspect of the hobby onto members (and was another step leading to the exodus from CT to PCF).
Fast forward to the incredible success of PCF (thanks, Tommy!), and with it, the introduction of many new members hungry for chips, the money with which to purchase them, and zero history of how it used to be. In a market where TRK had closed doors, BCC had sold out, Paulson/GPI stopped selling to the public, and TCR sales had become few and far between, cash became king, and the only way to pry sets out of owner's hands.
No real surprise that it's turned out like it has, no matter how sad it seems to the old-timers.
I've said it before, and my recent sale backs it up -- to true chippers, it isn't only about the money.
Once upon a time, long ago, there was this utopian land they called ChipTalk -- where people who shared a love of little clay discs could congregate and discuss, admire, covet, create, and trade said items. There were few real casino sets available then, they were elusive and crazy expensive, and wanted by many -- but those who were lucky to have them didn't want to sell, because there was nothing with which to replace them. This drove the people with high-end clay addiction to get their fix from other sources -- some chose to chase the initial fantasy sets previously made by Paulson, while others chose to get custom sets made (TRK, ASM, and BCC)... all of which were expensive options. Even the GPI-produced Paulson sets for home use made available through Trademark Poker, including the CT-group buy Pharaoh's Club chips, were a relatively expensive purchase at the time.
Those who didn't have the disposible income for either typically opted for plastic chips or ceramics (also expensive at the time), and saved their pennies for future purchases. Sometimes people would get lucky with a "chip find", and usually kept what they wanted/needed and sold off the balance to other chippers at cost. It's just how it was done. We were there to support each other in our addiction, not to take advantage or profit from the wants and desires of our fellow addicts -- after all, the same had been done for us, by many before us. It was a true community, and those few who dared try to capitalize on it were vocally attacked and shunned.
The clay chip world changed forever when TheChipRoom started bringing real casino chips to the marketplace, in bulk and at rock-bottom prices. For most chippers, this was a godsend -- incredible chips previously considered totally out of reach, now accessible in large quantities at previously unheard-of low prices. Prayers had been answered.
There were, however, two distinct downsides to this otherwise miraculous opportunity: 1) the market value of the previous generation of unobtainable 'grail' sets plummeted dramatically (bad for those who owned them, good for those that wanted them), and 2) people from outside the small chipping community saw it as an easy way to make a quick profit by buying as many of the chips as possible and then immediately reselling them at inflated prices -- mostly to those who missed out on the initial sales. This too drew the ire of the community at large, and changes were made to how TCR sales were run to help minimize the effect of "flipper" activities.... but the damage was done, and the chipping world started to change.
For the most part, chips were still bought and sold between members at cost or near-cost. But highly-desireable chips were often in the control of a few profiteering individuals, and members were forced to pay high prices in order to finish sets. And with each succesive Chip Room sale, it got worse -- more members, more sharks, more money-hungry flipping.
This all began long before the monetization of CT, which further pushed the business aspect of the hobby onto members (and was another step leading to the exodus from CT to PCF).
Fast forward to the incredible success of PCF (thanks, Tommy!), and with it, the introduction of many new members hungry for chips, the money with which to purchase them, and zero history of how it used to be. In a market where TRK had closed doors, BCC had sold out, Paulson/GPI stopped selling to the public, and TCR sales had become few and far between, cash became king, and the only way to pry sets out of owner's hands.
No real surprise that it's turned out like it has, no matter how sad it seems to the old-timers.
I've said it before, and my recent sale backs it up -- to true chippers, it isn't only about the money.
Really really well put.
@BGinGA summed it up better than I could, but was going to agree that the "for profit" aspect of the chipping world has been around much longer than PCF, though maybe not to the extreme we're seeing recently. In the CT days, we had folks like statman-55 always lurking in the water. In the waning years of CT, you had a very similar ratio of classified posts to "content".
However I do think that if you're willing to sift through the noise of the classifieds, there's a lot of great content here. The days of chip dying, the faux clay nation and lasering may be gone - but they've been replaced with a ton of information on milling & relabeling, ultrasonic tutorials, and a few really great resources on the more popular casino chips available. I've always most enjoyed the custom chip threads here and on CT, and though they do seem to have slowed, I still really enjoy those threads - both the mock-up threads and the pron reveal threads.
Where we've unfortunately lost a lot of steam, imho, is with group buys, and this is largely due to the custom chip options available nowadays. There used to always be a really cool group buy being organized - for BCC, for ASM, for ceramics, for Paulson hot stamps. With TRK/BCC closed, Paulson shutting down the home mark and CPC no longer offering discounts for large orders, options are slim to none. It's been nice to see the recent plastic group buys, but it's unfortunately just not the same volume as the old days.
Through all the $$$ though, I think there's one aspect that has expanded/morphed for the better, especially as of late - and that's the personal / face to face interactions within PCF. Take a look at the calendar, we have like a dozen meet ups planned this year, all over the country. That's really awesome.
However I do think that if you're willing to sift through the noise of the classifieds, there's a lot of great content here. The days of chip dying, the faux clay nation and lasering may be gone - but they've been replaced with a ton of information on milling & relabeling, ultrasonic tutorials, and a few really great resources on the more popular casino chips available. I've always most enjoyed the custom chip threads here and on CT, and though they do seem to have slowed, I still really enjoy those threads - both the mock-up threads and the pron reveal threads.
Where we've unfortunately lost a lot of steam, imho, is with group buys, and this is largely due to the custom chip options available nowadays. There used to always be a really cool group buy being organized - for BCC, for ASM, for ceramics, for Paulson hot stamps. With TRK/BCC closed, Paulson shutting down the home mark and CPC no longer offering discounts for large orders, options are slim to none. It's been nice to see the recent plastic group buys, but it's unfortunately just not the same volume as the old days.
Through all the $$$ though, I think there's one aspect that has expanded/morphed for the better, especially as of late - and that's the personal / face to face interactions within PCF. Take a look at the calendar, we have like a dozen meet ups planned this year, all over the country. That's really awesome.
Beaniman
Two Pair
I think it's like any other established group. What people tend to miss is that felling of nostalgia we used to have in better days.
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