When did this hobby change (2 Viewers)

[krafticus]

So, when did this go from a hobby to a business. Should everyone become a vendor? For some members, the ONLY threads they generally post are “for sale”
Threads. Maybe I’m just bitter. Maybe im an ass, .. whatever.

I click “new posts”, and 7 of the top 10 posts are all sale ads.

Am I wrong? Off base? Prove me wrong

 

[Hornet]

I’m afraid you’re not wrong

 

[Eloe2000]

Just because people are buying and selling doesn’t mean they are profiting and certainly doesn’t mean it’s a business. A lot are just trading in essence to build and customize new sets.

Plus the hobby and the name of the forum is literally about small collectible objects. Seems natural a lot of buying a selling goes on.

 

[FDLmold]

I post wanted ads from time to time and nobody says anything. So it can't be too much of a business around here if I have $$ to spend and nobody pipes up.

 

[JMC9389]

For a lot of the NAGB chips, and I'm not saying everyone does it, they've been priced for the seller to made some money off of it. There are other sales with really nice chips that are an excess to the means of the seller that are being sold off to fund other projects.

I only sell things that are an excess to my needs or redundant. I almost sold the entirety of my HS Cincy set because I realized that having two Paulson RHC cash sets is redundant. I'd much prefer to have a variety of sets in my chip cabinet. The only exceptions being my Key West CPC's and Rounders CPC sets, but I'm purposing those sets to be able to play both cash and tournaments (not at the same time!) at any given time. I'll be keeping both sets because of this.

Anyway, back to my point. I sold off the HS Cincy's to finance my CPC order that I'm placing, which is going to be a cash set. Having a Paulson RHC cash set, two CPC hybrid cash and tournament set, another BCC tournament set, and the custom CPC cash set being ordered is a good balance for now. I'm working on a mixed THC cash set over time, and that'll be coming out of my own pocket rather than selling my other chips at a profit, because frankly, the chips I currently have don't have much resale value and were bought for my own enjoyment, so I don't have much incentive to sell.

 

[MegaTon44]

@krafticus, I disagree. I don't view it as a business.

On an unrelated note, you can rent a room at my house for the micro meetup next month for the low price of $99/night. Enter promo code NOTABIZ for 10% off.

 

[bigdonkey]

2:14 AM Eastern Time, August 29th, 1997.

 

[krafticus]

@krafticus, I disagree. I don't view it as a business.

On an unrelated note, you can rent a room at my house for the micro meetup next month for the low price of $99/night. Enter promo code NOTABIZ for 10% off.

Not sure I’ll make it.

I think I’m signing off again.

 

[Saoliver]

So, when did this go from a hobby to a business. Should everyone become a vendor? For some members, the ONLY threads they generally post are “for sale”
Threads. Maybe I’m just bitter. Maybe im an ass, .. whatever.

I click “new posts”, and 7 of the top 10 posts are all sale ads.

Am I wrong? Off base? Prove me wrong

Not wrong. I buy and sell a TON of chips. I think that I have only made a few bucks on 1 deal. Most deals, I have either broke even or lost money. Can't speak for others though.

 

[RichMahogany]

It’s difficult to pin down exactly when the shift occurred, but I feel that the major influx of newer members has something to do with it.

I wasn’t around very long before ChipTalk imploded, maybe 1 1/2-2 years and one of the things that struck me was the sense of community and looking out for fellow chippers. The influx of newer members to PCF no longer know or care sometimes about how things were done in the past and only want to maximize profit/minimize loss. That’s not true of all newer members obviously and they have he right to use the forum as they see fit. As with any community though, as it grows new ideas come in and water down the older values.

Whether this is a positive or negative is for each member to decide.

*shrug*

P.S. I prefer the community aspect in case anyone is wondering or cares

 

[Changster]

Most deals, I have either broke even or lost money. Can't speak for others though.

Paging @Lemonzest

 

[Hornet]

@Lemonzest vs. @detroitdad

 

[markleteenie]

You're not wrong.

I will say what first drew me into this community was the marketplace, where I could buy and sell chips in order to make different mixed sets. As I explored more media and other threads, I was influenced by past sets/projects and again went through the process of buying and selling chips.

I can only speak for me:
As I near the completion of multiple sets, I am also culling down and selling off all of the pieces of changed/failed projects.

I have a few cash sets and a few tournament sets, and for now feel pretty content. I might get into the trading/selling of complete sets only, like @detroitdad does - I feel like I understand that concept now.

I do find that I browse the classifieds a lot, but I am looking for such specific things that it's more of a curiosity. I also am enjoying the strategy and game room/table builds the most now.

 

[Venturalvn]

Unfortunately you're not wrong The reason I take extended breaks is specifically because a majority of new posts have a sale tag next to them.

For me the beauty of chip world was customs. But that was when we had BCC, ASM, and TRK available. Then we had PGI that was offering cheap ceramics and semi customs for people who didn't want to shell out for clay.

Now it's almost the opposite. The custom clays that come out of CPC are few and far between. And the "custom" Paulsons introduced to the back alleys are too exclusive for the community at large and garner no community feedback.

Now everyone is just chasing "grail" sets because everything, including the "custom" Paulsons are also a grail set. And the idea that you can "rent" grail sets for $6k is rampant because hey - can't get em anywhere else. But...you don't want to just break even or have to pay shipping on a rented grail set right? Gotta make a little bit for your time...and next time...and next time...

I'm actually really excited to see SunFly being accessible because we get to see customs pushing forward again due to the price availability.

 

[Anthony Martino]

I think paying $8+/chip is ridiculous too so I won't do it, but it's other peoples money to do with as they please. Would I love to get in on a "not a group buy" and be able to flip chips for 3-4x my cost, of course, that would be a great boost to my bankroll, who doesn't like money?

 

[Perthmike]

I'm with you. It feels different. Most of the old timers only post in Meetup threads (I don't blame them) and there are a number of other members that only post in sales threads when they are buying/selling their "commodities" for obscene prices.

I'm gonna point to auctions and nagbs. That was the moment where we truly started trying to bend one another over in search of max value.

I swear people used to take time to enjoy the hobby and build sets. Now I see people showing up having spent $15k within a couple of months, acquiring every "prestige nagb" set they can get their hands on.

Its kinda fucked up if you buy a chipset for say $2000 and sell it to another community member for $10,000. I totally get that it's tempting and we aren't all rich, but once that's a common occurrence, the idea of community has really been lost.

That being said, there are still a tonne of amazing people are, doing generous things for one another, so it's not all doom and gloom.

Can we ban auctions now please.

 

[CdnBeerLover]

It’s difficult to pin down exactly when the shift occurred, but I feel that the major influx of newer members has something to do with it.

I wasn’t around very long before ChipTalk imploded, maybe 1 1/2-2 years and one of the things that struck me was the sense of community and looking out for fellow chippers. The influx of newer members to PCF no longer know or care sometimes about how things were done in the past and only want to maximize profit/minimize loss. That’s not true of all newer members obviously and they have he right to use the forum as they see fit. As with any community though, as it grows new ideas come in and water down the older values.

Whether this is a positive or negative is for each member to decide.

*shrug*

P.S. I prefer the community aspect in case anyone is wondering or cares

This pretty much sums up my view as well.

 

[Lemonzest]

 

[Zmasterben]

I'm with you. It feels different. Most of the old timers only post in Meetup threads (I don't blame them) and there are a number of other members that only post in sales threads when they are buying/selling their commodities for obscene prices.

I'm gonna point to auctions and nagbs. That was the moment where we truly started trying to bend one another over in search of max value.

I swear people used to take time to enjoy the hobby and build setw, now I see people showing up having spend $15k within a couple of months acquiring every "prestige nagb" set they can get their hands on.

Its kinda fucked up if you buy a chipset for say $2000 and sell it to another community member for $10,000. I totally get that it's tempting and we aren't all rich, but once that's a common occurrence, the idea of community has really been lost.

That being said, there are still a tonne of amazing people are, doing generous things for one another, so it's not all doom and gloom.

Can we ban auctions now please.

There was a point late last year when people were auctioning off individual sample sets for $40-80 like crazy. Common sets like boat chips, old Chiproom sets, and worst of all other people's custom sample sets that there were originally gracious enough to offer to the community at or near cost. Instead of just selling them, auctioning them off to try and squeeze out a few extra dollars. I almost started a thread discussion if people should even be allowed to sell other people's custom samples for above cost but decided in the end I have no right to tell people how much to sell their stuff for and also who the hell do I think I am.

I'm OK with auctions for rare and hard to value items, but there should be a minimum starting bid of $100 or $200 or something.

There is no need to auction off $50 items and there is no need for a $10 starting bid on items that will sell for hundreds of dollars anyways.

 

[Changster]

I’ve noticed these threads always popping up once a month or two...

 

[Moxie Mike]

So, when did this go from a hobby to a business. Should everyone become a vendor? For some members, the ONLY threads they generally post are “for sale”

I wouldn't describe it as a business for most people I've met here. The practice of selling something for more than you paid for it has been debated fiercely more times than is practical or necessary - and that's just in the time since I started hanging out here. My thought has always been if you have something someone else wants and they're willing to pay a premium for it, then there's nothing wrong with putting a few bucks in your pocket.

This is also coming from a guy who thinks the prices some people are willing to pay for the Jacks/Boat/Chips/etc. is downright ridiculous. But it's not really for me to say what something is worth to someone else.

I dunno man - I've sold chips for more than I paid for them in the past because my asking price was what they were worth to me. Does that make me opportunistic? It had nothing to do with squeezing every dollar I could out of the buyer - but just because a person got a good deal on something doesn't obligate them to sell at cost.

So I guess I would suggest to enjoy the hobby and the people for what it is. Some people mostly only care about the classifieds and there's not much to be done about that.

Its kinda fucked up if you buy a chipset for say $2000 and sell it to another community member for $10,000.

What's fucked up about that? It's the nature of any commodity where supply<demand. If you own something another person is willing to grossly overpay for, why not maximize your profit? I don't see how that hurts the community, since there really is no established 'market value' and there's no circumstances under which the demand can be completely satisfied.

Think of it another way: Suppose I have the only Kobe Bryant WSOP Paulson Special Edition Chip Set (yes this is a thing) in the world. Lots of people want it, and I have the only one. If I decide to sell, it will be sold to whoever offers me the most money. What other choice would I make in that scenario? The item will change hands periodically, almost always selling at a higher price than before until it finally lands in it's forever home - either with someone who really just wants to keep it, or with someone who couldn't find a buyer to flip it to. My point is, there is always a ceiling.

Can we ban auctions now please.

+1 on that brother.

 

[aaronroch]

I do wish there was an button or option to look for new posts excluding the classifieds.

I’m new here and have not yet sold a chip. And this community has been incredibly generous to my daughter (the singles/samples collector in the family).

 

[BukNaked36]

I always kind of like it when the NAGB teams pull one off.

I thought the AS and PS buy was especially interesting - good poker chip nerd success story of getting one over on the THE MAN.

I'm just glad it continues to be a happening site and I enjoy seeing all the chips come and go.

 

[Perthmike]

Ok @krafticus now that I've posted a rant agreeing with you lol, im also going to show you how you also aren't completely correct. Yesterday I received a surprise package from Amazon.

Turns out @Saoliver is not only helping me ship a couple of racks of chips I bought to go with the ones I bought from him, but he also bought a gift for my newborn.

So there you go, @krafticus a simple act of generosity to prove this is still a hobby and a community.

 

[Hornet]

What's fucked up about that? It's the nature of any commodity where supply<demand. If you own something another person is willing to grossly overpay for, why not maximize your profit? I don't see how that hurts the community, since there really is no established 'market value' and there's no circumstances under which the demand can be completely satisfied.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but that’s not a community. That’s eBay.

I think there are two aspects to PCF. The buying/selling aspect and the community aspect. The first has become mainly about maximizing profit. The second seems to be fostered through meetups and private conversations between members.

Can or should these two aspects coexist? I guess time will tell. I value the friendships I have made through PCF more than my chips. But that’s just me.

 

[Kidsthesedays]

Idk if this is the right place to say this but I've been feeling this for a couple weeks.

I came for the chips and stayed for the community. I recently finished my mixed set and realized I don't care about chips as much as I thought. I could sell them all tonight and not feel a thing. But there's some members that I'm looking forward to meeting and shooting the with, and that's what I value most out of this experience.

 

[Moxie Mike]

There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but that’s not a community. That’s eBay.

I think there are two aspects to PCF. The buying/selling aspect and the community aspect. The first has become mainly about maximizing profit. The second seems to be fostered through meetups and private conversations between members.

Can or should these two aspects coexist? I guess time will tell. I value the friendships I have made through PCF more than my chips. But that’s just me.

I guess I'm still unclear as to how selling for top dollar compromises the community aspect. But I wasn't around for the golden years of chipping either. Was it some type of utopia where no one focused on price or value and just traded freely? If so, I can see where some OGs would lament the erosion of that.

For me coming into this relatively recently, it surprises me to hear that the way things are now aren't how they've always been. When interest in a particular commodity increases (without an increase in supply), so does it's monetary value. MTG and vintage video game collectors are great examples. What started off as a hobby for some evolved to become a profitable endeavor for others.

So if you want to maintain that level of purity, why not get rid of selling in the classifieds? What if you could only post what you wanted and not what you had for sale? All transactions would have to be negotiated privately. So if you had something for sale, you're only route would be to search the wanted ads for a potential buyer. Or list them on eBay.

 

[Meddler2]

It started to become less a community site and more a grail-chasing-great-selloff-at-max-pricing-to-fund-semi-private-custom-paulsons just before the boat chips were leaked to the community; and hasn't looked back since. The dynamics of community/sharing and economics has definitely shifted. Hell even custom CPCs are unattainable for most; which forces would-be buyers to maximize their chip sales just to fund their cpc sets.
Remember when most chippers scoffed at the often hideous quality control of BCC (i.e.misshaped inlays etc)? Now chippers drool over those very same chips.
Yes I realize my response was all over the map.

 

[Perthmike]

I guess I'm still unclear as to how selling for top dollar compromises the community aspect. But I wasn't around for the golden years of chipping either. Was it some type of utopia where no one focused on price or value and just traded freely? If so, I can see where some OGs would lament the erosion of that.

For me coming into this relatively recently, it surprises me to hear that the way things are now aren't how they've always been. When interest in a particular commodity increases (without an increase in supply), so does it's monetary value. MTG and vintage video game collectors are great examples. What started off as a hobby for some evolved to become a profitable endeavor for others.

So if you want to maintain that level of purity, why not get rid of selling in the classifieds? What if you could only post what you wanted and not what you had for sale? All transactions would have to be negotiated privately. So if you had something for sale, you're only route would be to search the wanted ads for a potential buyer. Or list them on eBay.

The word commodity is your mistake. By definition you are correct and they would be defined as commodities, but prices were never as dumb as they are now and it was common for people to trade chips at the same price they were purchased for or even gift entire racks.

I guess that's a lot easier to do when the average rack was worth $100-$200, but it's just how it was.

This is a rich man's game now.

 

[Teach42]

I came here about half a year ago.

Nothing seems to have changed

But in all seriousness, it was seeking out more Empress chips that brought me here. But I'm at the point where I'm about 30 chips away from completing my set. So yes, I'm still looking at classified. But it's the threads about custom tables, hand breakdowns, running tourneys and the rest that really keep me here. It may only be less than 25% of the posts, but it's enough.