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What's missing here? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter brains613
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I get it, but not in the country brother. Most of those people playing have been shooting since they were 8. Been around weapons theyir whole life, and everyone is either an avid hunter or back from the military. (Some Kids don’t finish high school because they drop out for lengths at a time to help out with family crops, military’s good way out)
Your “swat” team in the country? Not officially trained in the swat sense since towns and cities are so small, so much so, that they often pull POs and other similar people in and give incentive pay for the dangerous work.
All semantics, sure, just sharing something I never knew! Moving from LA to a tiny Midwest town I learned a bunch.
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joeyshin
Royal Flush
I just saw this thread. It says you’re from Virginia Beach. Several years ago cops busted a huge home game run by the owner of Captain Georges. I remember they confiscated several tables and several hundred thousand dollars in cash. From what I hear from friends in Virginia Beach, they make it a mission to bust any game.
joeyshin
Royal Flush
Lil Tuna
Straight Flush
Interesting. I will never play cards in Va. Beach, that’s for damn sure!
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Dude, they. Are. Nuts. What you can legally own is absolutely bananas.You pack more heat at your poker games than a SWAT team?!? What would that even be, rocket launchers?
It took me awhile to be comfortable visiting some of the these folks in the country. But hey, they like guns I like chips. They’d think we’re nuts for what we spend on clay chips that couldn’t put a hole in a wall.
Lil Tuna
Straight Flush
Great info. Had heard of the Capt George raid. Didn’t realize the police there just took it upon themselves to clean house in the area.
Makes a lot more sense now.
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I don't pretend to know the law in Virginia, but if running a rake-free game is legal, why was anything seized?!
Not asking the OP, as I agree it's better for him not to say anything until this incident is squarely in the rearview mirror... But anyone else?
Not asking the OP, as I agree it's better for him not to say anything until this incident is squarely in the rearview mirror... But anyone else?
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I’ve learned about those! Opposite sides of the field in the dark and fire! Fun and games until a person finally gets hit....You never saw a potato cannon till you went to one of those games now did you @BarrieJ3?
I say this lovingly, theyre like an all white cast of Suicide Squad, a couple less teeth but more tattoos.
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Lil Tuna
Straight Flush
Not a clue Eric.
Been wondering if I needed to play with my old dice chips from here on out all day!
Lil Tuna
Straight Flush
Only hurts for a minute buddy. C’mon!
12thMan
Full House
Lol dude you are on one. Come on man, seriously.
what can you own there that you can’t own in other parts of the country? What can you own there that’s not in my safe? Here in Washington we can shoot full auto, own SBRs, and throw a can on the end of our rifles....which one of those turns law abiding people into delta force commandos ready to shoot police officers? Specifically what’s in those corn fed safes that aren’t in a tech workers safe in issaquah that would turn them into cop killers?
Coming from California I half way understand, that place is a different world compared to the vast majority of states in this country in regards to firearm laws.
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I acquiesce, just painting a picture not intended to be literalism. And no one else keeps mentioning killing.
Back to thread, sucks for OP and I feel for everyone there. But a great reminder for some (like me) who wouldn’t envision something like this happening at a local, friendly game.
12thMan
Full House
I’m willing to bet there is something in the probable cause/charging documents that would answer that in about 3 seconds.
Not saying it’s true, not saying dude did anything wrong, not saying anything illegal has ever gone on at any point in time there.....but the cops think something is.
Before a raid happens there is months of investigation, if not years. Then there is a document written up and sworn to by whoever is in charge of the case that is given to a judge to review and a search warrant is issued. Then a raid is scheduled, probably weeks in advance. An hour before they come through the door they are at the Police Department gathered around a white board discussing who is going to be the point man, who’s breaking down the door, who’s shooting the dog, who’s making the announcements over the pa if there are any...... point is none of it is an accident and unless this is a police department just flat out committing multitudes of felonies to rob somebody of poker chips at gun point they most definitely have a reason to be there.
Again, can’t stress this enough, they don’t have to be right about what they suspect and I have no reason to not believe dudewhen he says he’s doing nothing wrong, but they for sure think something is up and have enough evidence, even if it is circumstantial or fabricated, to have a judge sign off on a search warrant.
12thMan
Full House
Noted, I won’t assume what you are typing and discussing is your true feelings on anything. I could quote more than a few posts from you and others showing you exactly where people, yourself included, alluding to the idea swat wouldn’t be able to just bust in. Alluding there would be consequences. Alluding that dudes in the country who can hit what they are aiming at and have access to weapons 90% of the country can get wouldn’t stand for a swat raid.
but I won’t, because I do think we have drifted from the original topic and I dont think you’re a bad dude or anything, it’s dropped.
youre welcome at my game anytime bud, there won’t be any cops coming through the door so it’ll be a chill time.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
Just for the record, I am officially declining any invites to BarriJ3's games.
Even though the chance of a raid is super-low, it only takes one idiot to draw on a police officer before lead starts flying. I've worked with enough rural cops to know that they are hyper-aware of how well armed people are. Difference being that SWAT has body armor and will continue to shoot until it's time to reload.
I don't want to be killed in seat 2 because some redneck in seat 3 thinks he can pull his 9mm and drop 8 armed and armored officers before they return fire.
Even though the chance of a raid is super-low, it only takes one idiot to draw on a police officer before lead starts flying. I've worked with enough rural cops to know that they are hyper-aware of how well armed people are. Difference being that SWAT has body armor and will continue to shoot until it's time to reload.
I don't want to be killed in seat 2 because some redneck in seat 3 thinks he can pull his 9mm and drop 8 armed and armored officers before they return fire.
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12thMan
Full House
And just so I can post 53 times in a row ( 
I’m such a dork) I don’t want anybody thinking my opinions mean I support themilitarization of police forces, no knock raids, or civil forfeiture.
The police have a tough job, and we need them, but crap has gotten serious since the 90s and something needs to be figured out with the above points.
ever look up how many times a year swat busts into the completely WRONG house? It’s not often, it’spretty rare in the grand scheme of things....but to me the thoughtof it just happening once is terrifying.
I’m such a dork) I don’t want anybody thinking my opinions mean I support themilitarization of police forces, no knock raids, or civil forfeiture.The police have a tough job, and we need them, but crap has gotten serious since the 90s and something needs to be figured out with the above points.
ever look up how many times a year swat busts into the completely WRONG house? It’s not often, it’spretty rare in the grand scheme of things....but to me the thoughtof it just happening once is terrifying.
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Agreed. If the raid was legit, there was a warrant sworn to (at least that's what would happen in Michigan). The warrant would state specifically what they suspected and why.
When they conducted the raid, even if they didn't find what they were looking for (or what was stated on the warrant), they could seize other instruments of illegal activity. Did they just assume there was a rake going on, and took the table/chips/cash?
If that's what happened (they were looking for x and stumbled on to what they believed was illegal gambling) and rake-free games are legal in VA, seems it would be easy (ish) to get the items returned unless the Prosecutor can establish a rake was happening (or the gambling was otherwise illegal)
Lil Tuna
Straight Flush
Thanks for clearing this up 
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
Hopefully the cops don't read this page and find out what the chips are worth to us
joeyshin
Royal Flush
Someone posted an article about each states laws a while back.
From what I remember of the law several years ago. Recreational home games in Virginia are illegal, even with no rake
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I wouldn't make a decision based on information I found on the internet, but there's this: Virginia law exempts any gambling that occurs in a private residence as long as it is not considered a commercial operation. This includes home poker games and casino nights among friends.
If rake-free games are still illegal in Virginia, or if the cops thought a rake was happening, this story would make alot more sense. Regardless, something isn't adding up. Not blaming the OP, as he may not know the whole story either. I'm just saying there are alot of unknowns here.
If rake-free games are still illegal in Virginia, or if the cops thought a rake was happening, this story would make alot more sense. Regardless, something isn't adding up. Not blaming the OP, as he may not know the whole story either. I'm just saying there are alot of unknowns here.
Yeah, and I'm sure Perry thought the exact same thing.
Sometimes events are totally not within your control.
Lil Tuna
Straight Flush
Can’t argue with that @BGinGA, lots of things are out of anyone’s control.Yeah, and I'm sure Perry thought the exact same thing.
Sometimes events are totally not within your control.
As far as Perry’s thoughts go, I have no idea how or what the guy thinks or doesn’t. I’ve never met Perry or been to his game. Would most definitely like to hear more of the story from him when and if possible.
I do believe he did mention something about having players in his game from a “meet up” site of sorts.
This in my opinion could possibly have been the beginnings of the problem which led to his game getting raided.
Unless I know you personally or you can be vetted by one of my regulars, your not getting a seat in my game.
I will cancel a game if I can’t get one together for lack of asses to stick in seats.
I would never turn to a meet up site in hopes of filling my seats.
I’m of the belief that who I allow in my game greatly reduces the odds of it ever being raided for any reason. Can I be 100% sure? Maybe not, but it is my goal to be as close to sure as possible.
Not just for me but my players as well.
I’m hoping to learn more from Perry when and if he can provide the information. One can only make assumptions on the situation at this point.
I want to know EXACTLY why this happened to Perry so I don’t make the same mistake, if in fact Perry made a mistake at all.
Mike mac
Straight Flush
regardless of why this happened, i put myself in these potential shoes weekly and am empathetic and horrified for your family's loss of security. what a night terror! im almost sure they (cops) picked someone up that was a past player from your game and are trying to locate laundered funds. hope your bank is freed up since they must realize by now you are not the avenue to look at. look forward to hearing the end result ..... take care !
FordPickup92
Royal Flush
I'd still be hesitant to post this information publicly.... if DNR found pictures of deer from the previous hunting season (printed them and already accessed my personal information as they arrived at my work address) and was able to come make charges theres likely no limits for the big boys. If they are hunting for more potential raids everytime the word rake is used its being processed through a computer system that will alert further investigation
DISCLAIMER: I'm not a Virginia lawyer. I'm not a poker lawyer. IANYL. In general, it's reasonable to be suspicious of anyone from NJ.
The quote above looks a touch inconsistent with each site that Google led me to. Many of them referenced specific Virginia law, and I found a copy of that law on what looks to be an official Virginia gov website:
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter8/section18.2-334/
The key looks to (i) avoid having the residence be "commonly used" for games of chance and (ii) not be an "operator". (One additional argument available looks to be that poker is not a game of chance -- but a site suggest this is unresolved in VA.)
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-325/
To be honest, that's a little less clear than I was expecting, esp. if frequency is a relevant factor. One website says its "barely legal" in Virginia. Maybe that's the best way to describe it. At a minimum, when in Virginia don't do it commonly and don't do it as an operator.
Links:
- Poker Review: "It is a good thing that home poker games in Virginia are considered legal, because there is not a single licensed poker room in the state. "
- InternetPoker: "Even though we saw earlier that gambling has generally been made illegal, § 18.2-334 of the Virginia Penal code makes home games a complete exception"
- HomePoker: "Social games legal? Yes - explicitly permitted."
- Gambling Online: "you can play home-games as long as the participants play as equals and no individual is profiting from raking the pots or hosting the games."
- Legal Poker: "Home games are legal under Virginia Code S.18.2-334".
joeyshin
Royal Flush
You're right. I was thinking North Carolina where I lived for some time. It is illegal in NC...not VA.
Statesvegas
Flush
All forms of gambling remain illegal in NC. In fact, within the past 10 years the NC Supreme Court ruled that poker was a game of chance and not skill in response to a poorly executed challenge to the statute prohibiting games of chance.
For those with any interest in the case, see http://walkerd.people.cofc.edu/360/AcademicArticles/KellyPokerSkill.pdf
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