Tourney Halloween "Zombie Resurrection" idea (1 Viewer)

[toynoob]

The thing is, I want to stay as true to poker for my guests sake more than mine. The actual rebuy means you died and were resurrected as a zombie. I want to have as many rebuys as possible. I won't have a level stopping rebuys, it will be up to the player if it makes sense to drop a bullet on "x" BBs or not to get back in. Of course final table there will be no more rebuys.

 

[toynoob]

Why hasn't @Beakertwang chimed in on this thread...

 

[Blind Joe]

What about an all in with the human covering the zombie but loses the hand to the zombie. They are still in the tournament but now bit.

Then don't go all in against a zombie

Depending on how you set the rebuy rules and if the human still has rebuys available he will be a weak zombie but could still rebuy if busted as a zombie.

The thing is, I want to stay as true to poker for my guests sake more than mine. The actual rebuy means you died and were resurrected as a zombie. I want to have as many rebuys as possible. I won't have a level stopping rebuys, it will be up to the player if it makes sense to drop a bullet on "x" BBs or not to get back in. Of course final table there will be no more rebuys.

I'm OK in principle with a human becoming a zombie by either ressurection or being bitten/beaten, as long as the infection is transmitted by existing zombies. What I don't like is a human eliminating a human who then comes back as a zombie. That wouldn't make sense to me.

Edit: one other thought that occurred to me is that if the zombie penalty is to post an extra blind it might be better to be from the button rather than utg so that order of play isn't disrupted. Alternatively if going with utg and maintaining order of play the zombie would have first action pre-flop despite having posted a blind.

 

[BGinGA]

What I don't like is a human eliminating a human who then comes back as a zombie. That wouldn't make sense to me.

Sure it makes sense. People getting killed and then once dead turning into zombies happens all the time. Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, etc.

 

[toynoob]

Then don't go all in against a zombie

Depending on how you set the rebuy rules and if the human still has rebuys available he will be a weak zombie but could still rebuy if busted as a zombie.



I'm OK in principle with a human becoming a zombie by either ressurection or being bitten/beaten, as long as the infection is transmitted by existing zombies. What I don't like is a human eliminating a human who then comes back as a zombie. That wouldn't make sense to me.

Edit: one other thought that occurred to me is that if the zombie penalty is to post an extra blind it might be better to be from the button rather than utg so that order of play isn't disrupted. Alternatively if going with utg and maintaining order of play the zombie would have first action with the option to check or raise.

I can show you from what I read about the history of zombies, it's involving voodoo from West African culture. Witchcraft would bring a dead human alive. With that in mind dying and resurrecting as a zombie don't require to be bit

 

[Blind Joe]

Sure it makes sense. People getting killed and then once dead turning into zombies happens all the time. Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, etc.

I stopped watching walking dead a couple of years ago after it went downhill, and as for that other show you mention, I've purged it completely from my memory for the sake of my own sanity after that last season that I definitely don't remember

 

[Blind Joe]

I can show you from what I read about the history of zombies, it's involving voodoo from West African culture. Witchcraft would bring a dead human alive. With that in mind dying and resurrecting as a zombie don't require to be bit

Point taken. I suppose it comes down to personal preference then and what will work best for the game at hand. I think what I like about the infection method is that it provides a threat to the humans from the zombies and a means for the zombies to level the playing field (and of course I get to use my pun about hands being beaten by zombies). As a zombie, the more zombies there are the less of a disadvantage you have as one. As a human, surviving the invasion gives you an advantage as you are posting fewer blinds.

 

[Blind Joe]

I think it depends on the number of players at the table - the more players the less chance of getting bitten.
What if you make it "if your had is beaten by a zombie at showdown" you become a zombie. It allows players to "run" from the zombie.

Regardless, it definitely introduces an interesting element when the zombie is in the hand! I foresee a LOT of zombie bluffs working.

Interesting idea. That may be a good compromise.

 

[One Eyed Dollar]

I haven't read this whole thread, but has this game been mentioned yet?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/53443653/texas-holdem-with-zombies

 

[toynoob]

I haven't read this whole thread, but has this game been mentioned yet?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/53443653/texas-holdem-with-zombies

It's to far away from poker and more of a board game. Great for some, bad for my crew

 

[bigdonkey]

Regarding the idea of zombies decaying by posting an ante or BB every hand, would it help mitigate the penalty if the zombie, after eating (eliminating) a player, got some sort of respite, like x number of hands or x number of orbits with no decay until they need to eat again? Zombie would still have to be aggressive to stay ahead of the decay, and this would give more incentive to be aggressive in trying to eliminate players but zombies are supposed to be aggressive.

 

[JStew]

Watching with interest. Already planning an October game with whatever the consensus idea is. Seems like the zombie should have to rebuy otherwise why wouldn’t someone keep going all in from hand one. Best case you double up. Worst case you are a zombie with 1.5 starting stack early in the blind structure. Seems like it would be fun to be the zombie and be forced to play aggressive so if there wasn’t a significant financial disincentive I would want to be the zombie just for the challenge of it.

 

[troy1troy]

Watching with interest. Already planning an October game with whatever the consensus idea is. Seems like the zombie should have to rebuy otherwise why wouldn’t someone keep going all in from hand one. Best case you double up. Worst case you are a zombie with 1.5 starting stack early in the blind structure. Seems like it would be fun to be the zombie and be forced to play aggressive so if there wasn’t a significant financial disincentive I would want to be the zombie just for the challenge of it.

Hey now. Look above....I've got dibs on the October game
Maybe we both do one. You go first and I'll fix what didn't work in yours!

 

[Poker Zombie]

Already considering the same for our October game in 2020, so I expect to hear updates when these games run.

 

[WedgeRock]

does a player have to have rebuys left to come back as a zombie? If he's used up his rebuys is he fully out? Does this mean the outbreak can only be active during the rebuy period?

IMO, you have to have a rebuy to use a rebuy. The only difference I'm suggesting is that if you choose to rebuy after being KO'ed by a zombie you don't have the option to rebuy as a non-zombie. You hafta come back as a zombie.

And unlimited rebuys for a zombie tournament? Why not!

I think I'm pretty strongly against players having the choice of whether to become a zombie. If the first to bust out wants to come back in he does so as a zombie.

If Zombie-Rebuys are free (or nominal), you'll have takers.

 

[toynoob]

have we thought about a zombie ante that stays the same the entire game? so early on it would hurt, but, if you make it further on the ante will not hurt as much, and by the time you make it real deep it wont hurt much at all. Trying to find that sweet spot, what brought this thought was the Día de Muertos chips. I thought i could buy a bunch of 1 denom and any zombie would use that as the ante, if we can come up with #. So the deeper you go before being knocked out the better it would be for you also. Any thoughts?

 

[toynoob]

the 500 chip is calling me but.......... what u all think. Also must state the original buy in is 10k and the rebuy zombie stack will be i think 20k

 

[Blind Joe]

I can see your reasoning behind a static ante. Not sure how that would work out. T500 early in the game could be brutal (it's 10BB at L1, for example) and if it's paid too often it it might really cripple someone.

the 500 chip is calling me but.......... what u all think. Also must state the original buy in is 10k and the rebuy zombie stack will be i think 20k

Personally I'm now leaning more towards a low penalty and low stack advantage, eg 1 extra BB per orbit and around 2K extra chips.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Yeah, the issue with a non-changing ante would be that a low denom would never be colored up.

Coloring some off and leaving some on the table would be a nightmare for making change if the low denom (say, T25) was in short supply.

 

[toynoob]

Yeah, the issue with a non-changing ante would be that a low denom would never be colored up.

Coloring some off and leaving some on the table would be a nightmare for making change if the low denom (say, T25) was in short supply.

Not interested in a 25 or even a 100 ante. Imo that's too low. Most my players don't even bust until after break. That's why I mentioned 500. If you guys don't think it's possible then I will give up on the thought.

 

[Blind Joe]

Not interested in a 25 or even a 100 ante. Imo that's too low. Most my players don't even bust until after break. That's why I mentioned 500. If you guys don't think it's possible then I will give up on the thought.

I don't think a 500 ante would cause much of an issue for the colour up in a T10K. In my 10k structure they're only removed after L13 so you could just leave them on and distribute them amongst the zombies. You'd be expecting to finish not long after that anyway.

My concern was about the effects of a 500 ante in the early levels when it would be equal to quite a few BB as opposed to later when it's only worth a fraction of 1BB. How many antes per orbit do you plan on having a zombie post?

 

[toynoob]

I don't think a 500 ante would cause much of an issue for the colour up in a T10K. In my 10k structure they're only removed after L13 so you could just leave them on and distribute them amongst the zombies. You'd be expecting to finish not long after that anyway.

My concern was about the effects of a 500 ante in the early levels when it would be equal to quite a few BB as opposed to later when it's only worth a fraction of 1BB. How many antes per orbit do you plan on having a zombie post?

Was considering the 3 positions of UTG BB and SB. You are thinking that's to much. I may just follow your lead on the bleed of the zombie

 

[Blind Joe]

Was considering the 3 positions of UTG BB and SB. You are thinking that's to much. I may just follow your lead on the bleed of the zombie

Hey, I'm just feeling my way in the dark here, I'm not sure I want the responsibility of anyone following my lead!

When you say the three positions, do you mean 1500 in total per orbit, or 1500 in addition to what they would have paid in SB+BB? I think even 1500 in total might be a bit much if someone becomes a zombie early on (and would be crippling if it was in addition to the regular blinds). In L1 that's the equivalent of posting 30BB per orbit as opposed to 1.5BB for a human, though it does depend on the zombie stack size.

I could be totally wrong though, the point of this thread was to get my ideas out there and have those with more expertise than me (basically anyone on PCF) point out the flaws and issues so I could maybe implement this with some success.

 

[toynoob]

Hey, I'm just feeling my way in the dark here, I'm not sure I want the responsibility of anyone following my lead!

When you say the three positions, do you mean 1500 in total per orbit, or 1500 in addition to what they would have paid in SB+BB? I think even 1500 in total might be a bit much if someone becomes a zombie early on (and would be crippling if it was in addition to the regular blinds). In L1 that's the equivalent of posting 30BB per orbit as opposed to 1.5BB for a human, though it does depend on the zombie stack size.

I could be totally wrong though, the point of this thread was to get my ideas out there and have those with more expertise than me (basically anyone on PCF) point out the flaws and issues so I could maybe implement this with some success.

Good points, so were you thinking the zombie posts UTG BB? Then the rest of orbit stays the same? So it would be 2.5bb

 

[Poker Zombie]

If nothing else, this thread has had some good theoretical discussion. While there have been other things tossed about, the key points that I've gleaned thus far:

1. Bleed should be dead money (undead money?) to avoid giving anyone with position an advantage.
2. How often the bleed occurs (frequency) is debatable.
3. Size of the bleed is debatable, but will be dependent on the frequency.
4. Becoming a zombie should not be seen as an advantage.
5. If it is a MTT, the table with a zombie has an advantage over the other table(s).

Points 1 and 4 I think are no longer debated.

With point 2, I think that once an orbit (on the button or the BB), or every hand are the best. I think this because if your group is not used to paying an ante, there will be forgotten antes. Repetition would be beneficial to mitigate human nature, so every hand > once an orbit, but bleed size matters.

 

[toynoob]

If nothing else, this thread has had some good theoretical discussion. While there have been other things tossed about, the key points that I've gleaned thus far:

1. Bleed should be dead money (undead money?) to avoid giving anyone with position an advantage.
2. How often the bleed occurs (frequency) is debatable.
3. Size of the bleed is debatable, but will be dependent on the frequency.
4. Becoming a zombie should not be seen as an advantage.
5. If it is a MTT, the table with a zombie has an advantage over the other table(s).

Points 1 and 4 I think are no longer debated.

With point 2, I think that once an orbit (on the button or the BB), or every hand are the best. I think this because if your group is not used to paying an ante, there will be forgotten antes. Repetition would be beneficial to mitigate human nature, so every hand > once an orbit, but bleed size matters.

I like these, it saves me hours of thought and going back to pull these bullet points. My group will pay the BB ante on the button as a zombie. That don't dramatically change the game but does penalize the zombie. Also it is definitely possible for him to win the tournament. I'm leaning on longer rebuy period. Maybe through 2nd break. Do you guys think a full buy in cost for rebuy? Worried my crew is so darn nitty and we normally only do $25 buy ins the $50 buy in for this might stop them from rebuys.

 

[Blind Joe]

Good points, so were you thinking the zombie posts UTG BB? Then the rest of orbit stays the same? So it would be 2.5bb

Yeah I was thinking just an extra BB per orbit posted UTG or on the button (button might be easier to keep track of and wouldn't disrupt the order of action). If you wanted the bleed to be a little higher you could convert the Zombie's SB to a BB so he pays an extra 1.5 per orbit (Zombie would effectively post 3 BBs in a row in that setup).

My reasoning is that the extra BB increases action a little bit whilst not skewing gameplay to such an extent that it doesn't feel like poker anymore, nor does it push someone out of the game no matter how well they play.

If nothing else, this thread has had some good theoretical discussion. While there have been other things tossed about, the key points that I've gleaned thus far:

1. Bleed should be dead money (undead money?) to avoid giving anyone with position an advantage.
2. How often the bleed occurs (frequency) is debatable.
3. Size of the bleed is debatable, but will be dependent on the frequency.
4. Becoming a zombie should not be seen as an advantage.
5. If it is a MTT, the table with a zombie has an advantage over the other table(s).

Points 1 and 4 I think are no longer debated.

With point 2, I think that once an orbit (on the button or the BB), or every hand are the best. I think this because if your group is not used to paying an ante, there will be forgotten antes. Repetition would be beneficial to mitigate human nature, so every hand > once an orbit, but bleed size matters.

@Poker Zombie can you explain point 1 in noob terms for me please?

 

[toynoob]

@Blind Joe he is referring to position, if the ante is dead money, the BB still is last to act. In "straddle allowed" games the straddler is last to close action.

 

[Blind Joe]

I still don't understand that lol

 

[Poker Zombie]

@Poker Zombie can you explain point 1 in noob terms for me please?

Dead money means that it goes into the pot before blinds are posted (like an ante). If it is a straddle or a bigger blind being posted, the player with position will have an advantage over the course of the night.