Tourney Halloween "Zombie Resurrection" idea (2 Viewers)

Blind Joe

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I know it's a while off but I'm having a think about my next time hosting which will land in the latter half of October and I wanted to run an idea past you guys to see what you think and maybe help me iron out any potential creases.

Zombie Resurrection: the first player to bust out is "resurrected" and gets a free re-entry with a stack of 1.5x the original starting stack (eg 15K instead of 10K). The catch is they've come back as a "zombie" and their stack will "decay" by being forced to pay the SB in every hand. To survive they must "feed on the living" (ie win chips from other stacks).

Initial thoughts: my current rebuy system is essentially 2 half stack add-ons that can each be used when a player's stack is at half or less it's original starting value. This would not work well with the zombie resurrection idea as a player could separately use both rebuy chips and then bust out and claim his free big stack. The idea is to give someone a free rebuy with strings attached, not to allow them 3.5 stacks versus 2 stacks for everyone else.

The obvious solution is to revert to a more traditional rebuy system of only allowing rebuys when felted, however this would likely have an effect on the rebuy uptake (and style of play). Since implementing my current half stack add-on system we've had 50% and 75% uptake. With the traditional rebuy we only got around a 3rd of the field rebuying, even with the surrender method (which would be incompatible with this concept).

With that in mind I thought about making the buy in £15 for 10K with the rebuy being only £10 for 10K to promote them a little.

I'd love some thoughts and input on this, particularly on the value of the zombie stack (eg the figure of 1.5x is pulled straight from the air and isn't based on any calculations of how many hands—and therefore SBs—will be seen throughout the tournament) and indeed any pitfalls this may produce. What do you think guys?
 
I like that you are thinking outside the box, but I'd never implement a game that almost rewards insane wreckless play with no recourse but a reward. I get that you pay a small blind every hand but I don't think that is a penalty when you have 1.5 starting stack. I'm sure there are greater minds than mine who can fine tune your idea.
 
I know it's a while off but I'm having a think about my next time hosting which will land in the latter half of October and I wanted to run an idea past you guys to see what you think and maybe help me iron out any potential creases.

Zombie Resurrection: the first player to bust out is "resurrected" and gets a free re-entry with a stack of 1.5x the original starting stack (eg 15K instead of 10K). The catch is they've come back as a "zombie" and their stack will "decay" by being forced to pay the SB in every hand. To survive they must "feed on the living" (ie win chips from other stacks).

Initial thoughts: my current rebuy system is essentially 2 half stack add-ons that can each be used when a player's stack is at half or less it's original starting value. This would not work well with the zombie resurrection idea as a player could separately use both rebuy chips and then bust out and claim his free big stack. The idea is to give someone a free rebuy with strings attached, not to allow them 3.5 stacks versus 2 stacks for everyone else.

The obvious solution is to revert to a more traditional rebuy system of only allowing rebuys when felted, however this would likely have an effect on the rebuy uptake (and style of play). Since implementing my current half stack add-on system we've had 50% and 75% uptake. With the traditional rebuy we only got around a 3rd of the field rebuying, even with the surrender method (which would be incompatible with this concept).

With that in mind I thought about making the buy in £15 for 10K with the rebuy being only £10 for 10K to promote them a little.

I'd love some thoughts and input on this, particularly on the value of the zombie stack (eg the figure of 1.5x is pulled straight from the air and isn't based on any calculations of how many hands—and therefore SBs—will be seen throughout the tournament) and indeed any pitfalls this may produce. What do you think guys?
What about a freezout tournament and when the first goes out he has the option to die or resurrect as a zombie. Since no one else will have the option to rebuy the zombie needs to be crippled compared to the field. I'd suggest a full rebuy cost but only gets 5k in chips. The first guy might pass, but the second guy could be a degen and want back in. (For all the snowlakes that are offended by my gender terms I apologise for not including the 112 genders of 2019)
 
I like that you are thinking outside the box, but I'd never implement a game that almost rewards insane wreckless play with no recourse but a reward. I get that you pay a small blind every hand but I don't think that is a penalty when you have 1.5 starting stack. I'm sure there are greater minds than mine who can fine tune your idea.

I appreciate the feedback. The numbers definitely need fine tuning! I don't want it to be a reward, more of a second chance with strings attached. Assuming everyone can and will rebuy when busted (I know that's not strictly true but all other things being equal and all that) I want to try to balance a punishment for being first out (decaying stack) with a positive so that it's still possible, albeit difficult, for them to go on to win.

What about a freezout tournament and when the first goes out he has the option to die or resurrect as a zombie. Since no one else will have the option to rebuy the zombie needs to be crippled compared to the field. I'd suggest a full rebuy cost but only gets 5k in chips. The first guy might pass, but the second guy could be a degen and want back in.

I can't think of a reason anyone would turn down the option of resurrection in that situation and therefore it really would be a reward for reckless play. They'd get the second chance when nobody else would, even if they paid for it.
 
I appreciate the feedback. The numbers definitely need fine tuning! I don't want it to be a reward, more of a second chance with strings attached. Assuming everyone can and will rebuy when busted (I know that's not strictly true but all other things being equal and all that) I want to try to balance a punishment for being first out (decaying stack) with a positive so that it's still possible, albeit difficult, for them to go on to win.



I can't think of a reason anyone would turn down the option of re-entry in that situation and therefore it really would be a reward for reckless play. They'd get the second chance when nobody else would even if they paid for it.
I myself would not buy again in $100 tournament for half starting stack, but for $10 yes no brainier, I don't know your players, what about 1.5x buy in for half stack? Idk just tossing around ideas out loud. I think it would be cool if we get supperior minds like @BGinGA to tweek it we could set in stone a zombie format, that we can all use in our small home groups. I'm thinking like @abby99 cash game cards we could have tournament formats to spice up the norm.
 
Zombie Resurrection: the first player to bust out is "resurrected"..... The catch is they've come back as a "zombie" and their stack will "decay" by being forced to pay the SB in every hand. To survive they must "feed on the living" (ie win chips from other stacks).
I don't want it to be a reward, more of a second chance with strings attached.
Rather than posting a forced small blind every hand, I think a Zombie player with a forced straddle every hand (regardless of position) would be a LOT more interesting. Just make the zombie-buy a normal stack at normal price.... but he's posting a forced bet and threatening the humans on every hand. Players that don't want it can just die like usual, no zombie resurrection. I'd make it available until your normal end-of-rebuys time (even though not technically a re-buy tournament), so the first 'dead' player that turns into a zombie ends the option (in case some eliminated players aren't interested).
 
Rather than posting a forced small blind every hand, I think a Zombie player with a forced straddle every hand (regardless of position) would be a LOT more interesting. Just make the zombie-buy a normal stack at normal price.... but he's posting a forced bet and threatening the humans on every hand. Players that don't want it can just die like usual, no zombie resurrection. I'd make it available until your normal end-of-rebuys time (even though not technically a re-buy tournament), so the first 'dead' player that turns into a zombie ends the option (in case some eliminated players aren't interested).

I'm only vaguely familiar with what a straddle is :oops: but I think we are more or less on the same page — the punishment should be that the zombie has to post a forced bet each hand regardless of position (and this reflects the decaying aspect of the zombie). When I said small blind that was really just a suggestion of the value of the forced bet. I wasn't saying the zombie should post the sb instead of the player who is in position to post it.

A couple of questions then. Am I right in thinking the straddle is 2x the bb? If so wouldn't this wipe out the zombie pretty quickly if he's forced to post it every hand? I get that it's a threat to humans, and I like that aspect of it, but I don't necessarily want the zombie to be so easily defeated, nor for the humans to be feel punished.
 
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I'm only vaguely familiar with what a straddle is :oops: but I think we are more or less on the same page — the punishment should be that the zombie has to post a forced bet each hand regardless of position (and this reflects the decaying aspect of the zombie). When I said small blind that was really just a suggestion of the value of the forced bet. I wasn't saying the zombie should post the sb instead of the player next to the button.

A couple of questions then. Am I right in thinking the straddle is 2x the bb? If so wouldn't this wipe out the zombie pretty quickly if he's forced to post it every hand? I get that it's a threat to humans, and I like that aspect of it, but I don't necessarily want the zombie to be so easily defeated, nor for the humans to be feel punished.
Yes straddle is x2 of BB.
 
I wasn't saying the zombie should post the sb instead of the player next to the button.
Yes I believe we all understand that, my thing is if you have 15k that's not really a penalty for going out. We need to remember it's a "dead" player and in my opinion has a small chance to comeback and win.
 
I like the general idea!

I think it should be a forced ante, i.e., dead money. The sizes could be discussed, but I think giving the zombie a big stack like 1.5× makes him terrifying at first, as he should be, and an ante the size of the SB or even BB will not kill him immediately, but when blinds go up he will eventually be at a large enough disadvantage.
 
Then you need these chips to identify the zombies.

BFC2EE51-A464-4C0D-8A09-AE2322E65BCD.jpeg
 
Or a combination of @BGinGA's straddle idea and the resurrection tournament that was discussed a while back!

Everyone becomes a zombie after their first reapective elimination. You receive the average stack (i.e. it will increase every time) and must from now on straddle.

8 players left, 4 zombies, SB, BB, and 4 straddles... if that doesn't induce action I don't know what will!
 
Better marker for the zombie in this pic:
1566241456183.png


My initial thoughts:
  • Spending money on the rebuy gives you a regular rebuy during the rebuy period.
  • Taking the optional "free" rebuy makes you a zombie, posting an ante every hand.
  • Zombie gets the same stack size as regular rebuy, but free.
  • Every player gets the free rebuy option. No time limit. Basically, to be knocked out, you must lose twice.
  • If the winning player is a non-zombie, they get a bigger piece of the prize pool. This would require 2 payout structures, with the second being top-heavy, but do-able.
 
Better marker for the zombie in this pic:
View attachment 325570

My initial thoughts:
  • Spending money on the rebuy gives you a regular rebuy during the rebuy period.
  • Taking the optional "free" rebuy makes you a zombie, posting an ante every hand.
  • Zombie gets the same stack size as regular rebuy, but free.
  • Every player gets the free rebuy option. No time limit. Basically, to be knocked out, you must lose twice.
  • If the winning player is a non-zombie, they get a bigger piece of the prize pool. This would require 2 payout structures, with the second being top-heavy, but do-able.
I logged back on just to tag mr. zombie himself and here you are....
 
I like the general idea!

I think it should be a forced ante, i.e., dead money. The sizes could be discussed, but I think giving the zombie a big stack like 1.5× makes him terrifying at first, as he should be, and an ante the size of the SB or even BB will not kill him immediately, but when blinds go up he will eventually be at a large enough disadvantage.

Yes, that's my thinking. The forced bet causes the zombie to decay, and the longer he survives the more the rot sets in due to rising blinds (or whatever the zombie bet is based on).

The trick will be determining the size of the forced bet. It should be difficult for the zombie to win but not impossible. If the forced bets are too big it kills the zombie too quickly but if they're too small it's not an effective concept.

Or a combination of @BGinGA's straddle idea and the resurrection tournament that was discussed a while back!

Everyone becomes a zombie after their first reapective elimination. You receive the average stack (i.e. it will increase every time) and must from now on straddle.

8 players left, 4 zombies, SB, BB, and 4 straddles... if that doesn't induce action I don't know what will!

I remember that thread and commented on it at the time. My original idea was to do it that way and I drafted out a couple of structures but in all honesty the uncertainty of how many chips will end up in play and tournament duration is probably beyond my limited experience right now. I concluded yesterday that I would resign it to the back burner for now and come up with a different idea, hence this thread.

Then you need these chips to identify the zombies.

View attachment 325568

I saw these a few days ago but afaikr I couldn't find a blank (ie non value) chip when I went to the site.
 
Love that zombie marker @Poker Zombie :tup:

Some good points made there as well. Not sure about making the zombie optional for everyone, I think I prefer it being exclusively for the first to die with the rest of the players paying into the pot if they want to rebuy. (More money innit? ;)) but I'll think long and hard about this. :tup:
 
Don't give up on the idea, I am already figuring out a date in oct I can do mine lol! I like the idea of everyone getting a zombie rebuy, but maybe not for free. Bumping my normal $25 buy in up to $50 and having the zombie rebuy like $15 or $20. The more I think of it I may agree you were right about the 1.5 stacks..
 
the uncertainty of how many chips will end up in play and tournament duration
Yeah, that's the problem. A simplified solution could be to just have an ever increasing scale for the rebuys. It takes some administration anyway, though.
 
Does anyone have any idea of the average number of hands played per hour? Maybe I'll have to do some sort of test run to get an idea, that way I can start to figure out how much of an effect the zombie bet will have on his stack.
 
Good point and what if the forced dead money stays the same and don't go up. Like 250 out of 15k or w/e makes sense
 
Holdem, about 25-30 is our normal. Less when nearing the bubble (critical decisions and diminishing stacks to blinds), more when there is a dedicated dealer.
 
Love that zombie marker @Poker Zombie :tup:

Some good points made there as well. Not sure about making the zombie optional for everyone, I think I prefer it being exclusively for the first to die with the rest of the players paying into the pot if they want to rebuy. (More money innit? ;)) but I'll think long and hard about this. :tup:
If everyone gets the zombie option, there is no "advantage" to being the first knocked out.

Since the zombie gets a regular size stack, and it is a diminishing stack, the paid rebuys will probably be the same, to avoid getting the diminishing stack.

Rebuys may be even greater as the existing zombies will be more jam-happy as they are effectively playing with a shorter stack.
 
What do you guys think about instead of antes every hand making the zombies paying 50% more on the blinds? So if the blinds are 1k/2k zombie gets hit with 1500/3000? My thoughts are bleeding every hand is going to be really hard to find the happy line. I guess trial runs could potentially find that spot but I don't have 20 people I can try it with.
 
Antes every hand isn't an unreasonable "bleed". Most casino tournaments have antes.

Paying a Bigger blind would cause an extra hardship on all players, as the blinds would be 50% higher twice an orbit - a particular penalty to the player UTG.
 
That's why a forced straddle may work well.

Even though the Zombie is forced to make a forced 2xBB bet every hand, he also gets to act last pre-flop, along with having the option to raise regardless of what else has happened prior to his action. And some of those times he will also have decent position *after* the flop, so his 'donation' every hand is really a wild card in terms of strategy.

It's guaranteed to promote action, and the mere dynamic of a live straddle every hand -- from different positions, no less -- will make some of the humans pretty uncomfortable (both of which are right in line with a Zombie being loose in the community, fwiw).
 

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