justsomedude
Straight Flush
Did these ever get to the group buy? You should get another buy set up.
Those card trays/racks never got made. The mold costs were exorbitant and would’ve made the unit cost impractical.
Did these ever get to the group buy? You should get another buy set up.
We're talking $50-$65 each and we need an order of 300-500 pieces?
I understand there are some innovative design ideas, but from just a cost perspective, how is the proposed price a great savings over what is available now?
Quick search found $65 (with racks) and no minimum.
View attachment 229374
Those card trays/racks never got made. The mold costs were exorbitant and would’ve made the unit cost impractical.
How about you design one that will fit 43mm chip racks?
Is it weird that my concerns are just the opposite???
I don't want some one else's table/crumbs scratching the bottom of my birdcage...
Ikea felt furniture feet FTW!
I'm glad to see you are back!
I tried to help spread the word during the Black Aurora Kickstarter, which understandably, got laughed out the door around here. I am so happy you are taking the criticisms, have ditched the gilding on the lily and built what we need/want - a stable birdcage.
More interest in the 800 and 1000-chip capacities. (y) :thumbsup:...My favorite cash set size is 800 and I prefer 1000 for tourney so I would probably be most interested in those sizes.
Thanks, @SixSpeedFury! It's good to be back....I've been following you for a while but it's great to have you back on the forums Mario!
Love to. Just have to make sure we get at least one base and one handle to start. The more types of bases we order, the more tooling, the greater the cost, and so on. Can we all agree that a flat base, with no compartments, should be first? The 1000-chip handle second, and the base with compartments third?MAKE.
THIS.
HAPPEN.
Yea im in for 2 of those lol
Two more! I think this puts us above 50 on the conservative side, 60 on the not-so-conservative side, @WhiteMamba1646In for 2
You're right about the size. Wouldn't be much more at all. Off the top of my head, without measuring, it'll be about 12.5mm wider, which is a little less than half an inch. (The math: most 39mm chips are a little more than 39mm when you take a digital caliper to them, so I like to round up to 40mm. I don't have any 42mm chips, so I'm guessing about 2.5mm per stack of 20.)One other thought before I drift off to sleep....
You could make the initial run of carriers big enough for 43mm racks but have the 'rack stabilizers' centered to hold standard 39mm racks. You would be killing 2 birds with one stone there, and without getting out of bed and going and measuring it couldn't be more than about 1/4 to 1/2 an inch on both ends to make it happen
A KickStarter campaign...is a pain. No getting around it and, yes, they do take a bit right off the top, which increases the cost to each buyer/backer by a significant enough amount. There are some advantages to going the KickStarter route, mainly exposure, but for poker items, I've found that the benefit can be negligible. Your idea is the right one. See what kind of support we can garner here, then go to KickStarter for whatever's left. But, I can't stress enough that we're going to need everyone's help in promoting this to make sure we kill the funding goal, KickStarter or not.Why not see if you can get some hard numbers from within the PCF community before committing to Kickstarter (or some other crowdfunding source)? Assuming a successful campaign, KS takes 10% right off the top in fees, money which could otherwise be spent on development, future prototyping, or even just bringing initial production costs down. If there was enough $$$ from us for an initial production run, then why not use KS in Phase II where you could raise funds for all those options that have just been brainstormed?
Will do.Following with interest. Surely somebody has asked for this already, but could you add a section about international shipping options to the eventual FAQ?
Awesome, @colter ripton! We've got to be nearing the 60-70 mark now.I'd he in for 1 or maybe 2 1000 chip cases
Got it, @Mathieu. I think there's a lot to be said for the compartments, but in order to achieve the maximum appeal to all markets, the flat bottom does make some sense. (Casinos could really push us over the top, if we could even get one or two local/independent casinos on board. They won't have any use for compartments.) As far as which tooling to acquire first goes, does my idea of starting with the flat base, then the 1000-chip handle, then the base with compartments make sense? As in, make sure we have enough orders to acquire tooling for a flat-based unit, and then, when we go over that goal by enough to be able to afford the tooling for the more expensive base with compartments, get that made too?I would only buy if there is storage for dealer buttons and cads at the bottom like your original design.
We're looking better and better! Thanks, @ADS Aviator!I'd be interested in 2.
I'm ordering some Kem bridge-size cards, as we speak. Aside from these, I have yet to find a deck of cards that doesn't fit inside of the card compartments. The largest ones I could find were Midnight Playing Cards' Cosmic Lanes deck. The compartments on the prototypes fit these cards in the box, just fine. But, I'm all ears! If you guys want a drawer, let's go for it. We'll just need to decide on which route we want to go so I can create the model and get quotes for tooling.I like this diea a lot. I might suggest keeping an "open drawer" instead of small cutouts. This way you can accommodate decks and buttons of all sizes.
There was a massive group buy in 43mm ceramic hybrids last summer which I suspect is why you are getting massive requests to accommodate this size of you can.
The support is overwhelming, guys. Thank you, @Chbyfngr!...I am in for 2 1000 chip cases if that’s the first run. I’d also buy a couple 800 and whatever 43mm design you come up with.
I think I'll have to get some of these from Gene. I'm sure we could accommodate those too, pretty easily.If the Aurora cage was to magically include 71mm racks that fit the PGI/Gene 8V's, I'm absolutely down for 1x 1,000
As far as which tooling to acquire first goes, does my idea of starting with the flat base, then the 1000-chip handle, then the base with compartments make sense? As in, make sure we have enough orders to acquire tooling for a flat-based unit, and then, when we go over that goal by enough to be able to afford the tooling for the more expensive base with compartments, get that made too?
I think I'll have to get some of [chip racks for the PGI 8V's] from Gene. I'm sure we could accommodate those too, pretty easily.
We're talking $50-$65 each and we need an order of 300-500 pieces?
I understand there are some innovative design ideas, but from just a cost perspective, how is the proposed price a great savings over what is available now?
Quick search found $65 (with racks) and no minimum.
@WedgeRock We don't need to come up with 300-500 on this forum only. (Again, the numbers will change, in all likelihood, and it's difficult to say at this early phase which way they'll go.) But if we can get better than 100 on this forum alone, that should be the momentum we need to get others to follow suit.I think the cost difference is in what you're NOT getting.
Real casino bird cages have a full width center divider, use at least 3 screws to attach the bottom piece, and have much thicker plastic all around. See the photo from the Unique Ent catalog below for comparison...
These are designed as a much beefier product and sell for to $150. They are designed to handle the day to day rigors of casino use. They can be used and abused and won't collapse, shatter, fall apart, or break. Our $65 Brybelly units probably wouldn't make it through a day in a casino, and I always carry them with 2 hands because of how flimsy they feel.
If we're getting a casino grade product at $65, I'd say were in for substantial savings.
Just my $0.02.
I'm glad someone else here has dealt with the cost of injection molding. I won't be alone, here. @justsomedudeThose card trays/racks never got made. The mold costs were exorbitant and would’ve made the unit cost impractical.
3D printing has some limitations. It's perfect for prototyping or even for creating things for personal use--I do it all the time!--but the major drawbacks are that it's too slow for production, which increases the cost per hour, and the higher the resolution of the print, the more expensive. I'm sure the member who's printing those racks is being generous with his time and materials to make it viable.I would think someone could 3D print these pretty cheap. There’s a member that’s doing the 3D printed racks for CPC chips. We could ask him.
Thanks, @Poker Zombie! It really is good to be back. I appreciate the help you gave, trying to get the word out. I hope you're ready to do it again! Exact dimensions are on the way. The Apexes shouldn't be too much bigger than a standard birdcage, especially if we opt for a flat bottom, with no compartments. Depends on how much wiggle room you have in your shelves.I'm glad to see you are back!
I tried to help spread the word during the Black Aurora Kickstarter, which understandably, got laughed out the door around here. I am so happy you are taking the criticisms, have ditched the gilding on the lily and built what we need/want - a stable birdcage.
I've built my storage shelves around the size of a standard birdcage, so I'd need exact dimensions before I could commit to anything... but I do have a number of chipsets that I have to carry out by the racks (or chip boxes) now, so count me in as interested, but non-committal at this point.
You're right about shipping. It's going to take custom packaging and boxes. I worked that out long ago and I'm going through all of my notes now.Love the concept and ergonomic design features. Colors are a plus. Maybe have standard tops and mix and match color bottoms. Only basic colors offered.
Not to be a downer, Price pt would be key...shipping will be a bitch. Have to think of custom boxes to ship these out safe and secure I think?
If there's a market, sure!Another thought if this doesn't come to life, what about Colorful racks for 39mm and 43mm sizes?
Is that a commitment to three?Yup - I need a few of these.
I'll have to acquire some 43mm chips and racks to troubleshoot this. Any volunteers to send me some, @Poker Zombie? I'll pay shipping.... and 43mm racks that will fit seamlessly on top of (or underneath) 39mm chip racks, for those that have mixed sizes in a set.
This is a winning strategy. This will get us there, @allforcharity.Simplest things first. Flat base/handle, box with 1000-chip capacity. Everything else can flow from there. For those that are waiting on 600s and 800s, just buy the 1000s first. Sell them later on the secondary market when the other sizes become available, because the late adopters will want to see the first production ones in action before they jump in.
Man, @mrplacey, you guys are making me put all my ideas out there all at once! I do have an idea for a poker chip rack/tray codenamed PCR, the perfect chip rack. I may just bite the bullet and throw the design out on PCF somewhere--maybe here--but the idea is to make a chip rack that holds both 39mm and 42mm chips comfortably. (This is the biggest challenge of the project and it may end up being two separate models.) The other concept behind it is a little difficult to explain. There will be two racks: a "half rack" and a "full rack." Now, stay with me, here. The half rack, which is similar to a regular rack, would go on the bottom. You'd fill it with 100 chips, as usual. Then the full rack, which looks similar to two regular racks put together bottom-to-bottom, would go over the top of the 100 chips in the half rack, completely enveloping. Then you could put 100 more chips in the top of the full rack. When you're out of chips, you stick another half rack on the top. The idea is to completely seal the chips. Also, the edges of the racks would have a tongue-and-groove so that they stay together. You know what? A picture is worth a thousand words; I'm starting a new thread for this. Bare with me. Acrylic takes a long time to render.Now the problem is those aren't being made anymore. Would you consider manufacturing chip racks to go with the container? I'm pretty confident you might find demand for that product line in various sizes as well.
This is a great idea. I wonder if the handle would be sufficient though. If there's confirmed interest in designing a hole into either side of the handle to fit a lock shackle, it would be easy to implement....a hole jist slightly above the acrylic cages on the handle that a padlock could fit into...
Definitely not a bad idea. I wonder if a drawer, as opposed to compartments, would be sufficient for them. Maybe I could also design an acrylic rack for those that goes on top of the chip racks?Perhaps storage in the base for....plaques?
Drawer or rack would be sweet.This is a great idea. I wonder if the handle would be sufficient though. If there's confirmed interest in designing a hole into either side of the handle to fit a lock shackle, it would be easy to implement.
Definitely not a bad idea. I wonder if a drawer, as opposed to compartments, would be sufficient for them. Maybe I could also design an acrylic rack for those that goes on top of the chip racks?
Sadly, I don't have a full rack of 43mm chips (yet). The lack of storage has kept me from actively pursuing more, but with a couple 43mm GB projects on the forum right now, this birdcage project is very timely.I'll have to acquire some 43mm chips and racks to troubleshoot this. Any volunteers to send me some, @Poker Zombie? I'll pay shipping.
You only need a hole in the exposed handle for a lock. If you use a master lock it will just look like it is sitting on top of the carrier.
I think to be successful the first run needs to accommodate 43mm racks.
I think to be successful the first run needs to accommodate 43mm racks.
Judging from that photo, a padlock may be able to wrap the handle, thus allowing the "sheath" to only be lifted a few inches.There isn’t a lot of material in the exposed handle. It appears maybe adding just a tad bit of material in the bottom might help with that. (Where my finger is)