justsomedude
Straight Flush
Those card trays/racks never got made. The mold costs were exorbitant and would’ve made the unit cost impractical.
Apex/Black Aurora Poker Chip Cases (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mario Garza
- Start date
Those card trays/racks never got made. The mold costs were exorbitant and would’ve made the unit cost impractical.
justsomedude
Straight Flush
I think the cost difference is in what you're NOT getting.
Real casino bird cages have a full width center divider, use at least 3 screws to attach the bottom piece, and have much thicker plastic all around. See the photo from the Unique Ent catalog below for comparison...
These are designed as a much beefier product and sell for to $150. They are designed to handle the day to day rigors of casino use. They can be used and abused and won't collapse, shatter, fall apart, or break. Our $65 Brybelly units probably wouldn't make it through a day in a casino, and I always carry them with 2 hands because of how flimsy they feel.
If we're getting a casino grade product at $65, I'd say were in for substantial savings.
Just my $0.02.
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I would think someone could 3D print these pretty cheap. There’s a member that’s doing the 3D printed racks for CPC chips. We could ask him.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
I'm glad to see you are back!
I tried to help spread the word during the Black Aurora Kickstarter, which understandably, got laughed out the door around here. I am so happy you are taking the criticisms, have ditched the gilding on the lily and built what we need/want - a stable birdcage.
I've built my storage shelves around the size of a standard birdcage, so I'd need exact dimensions before I could commit to anything... but I do have a number of chipsets that I have to carry out by the racks (or chip boxes) now, so count me in as interested, but non-committal at this point.
I tried to help spread the word during the Black Aurora Kickstarter, which understandably, got laughed out the door around here. I am so happy you are taking the criticisms, have ditched the gilding on the lily and built what we need/want - a stable birdcage.
I've built my storage shelves around the size of a standard birdcage, so I'd need exact dimensions before I could commit to anything... but I do have a number of chipsets that I have to carry out by the racks (or chip boxes) now, so count me in as interested, but non-committal at this point.
Love the concept and ergonomic design features. Colors are a plus. Maybe have standard tops and mix and match color bottoms. Only basic colors offered.
Not to be a downer, Price pt would be key...shipping will be a bitch. Have to think of custom boxes to ship these out safe and secure I think?
Not to be a downer, Price pt would be key...shipping will be a bitch. Have to think of custom boxes to ship these out safe and secure I think?
Another thought if this doesn't come to life, what about Colorful racks for 39mm and 43mm sizes?
DeeVee8
Straight
How about you design one that will fit 43mm chip racks?
Yup - I need a few of these.
Is it weird that my concerns are just the opposite???
I don't want some one else's table/crumbs scratching the bottom of my birdcage...
Ikea felt furniture feet FTW!
Bwahahaha - I also hate when that happens....
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
... and 43mm racks that will fit seamlessly on top of (or underneath) 39mm chip racks, for those that have mixed sizes in a set.
I second this. I remember seeing the first post about these in the past, and didn't really get past the flashing lights with the "YOUR TEXT HERE" front and center.
My first thought was.... "really", what's with the flashing lights?
Reminded me of these from Shark Tank:
https://www.taillightz.com
OP
OP
More interest in the 800 and 1000-chip capacities. (y) :thumbsup:
Thanks, @SixSpeedFury! It's good to be back.
Love to. Just have to make sure we get at least one base and one handle to start. The more types of bases we order, the more tooling, the greater the cost, and so on. Can we all agree that a flat base, with no compartments, should be first? The 1000-chip handle second, and the base with compartments third?
Two more! I think this puts us above 50 on the conservative side, 60 on the not-so-conservative side, @WhiteMamba1646
You're right about the size. Wouldn't be much more at all. Off the top of my head, without measuring, it'll be about 12.5mm wider, which is a little less than half an inch. (The math: most 39mm chips are a little more than 39mm when you take a digital caliper to them, so I like to round up to 40mm. I don't have any 42mm chips, so I'm guessing about 2.5mm per stack of 20.)
A KickStarter campaign...is a pain. No getting around it and, yes, they do take a bit right off the top, which increases the cost to each buyer/backer by a significant enough amount. There are some advantages to going the KickStarter route, mainly exposure, but for poker items, I've found that the benefit can be negligible. Your idea is the right one. See what kind of support we can garner here, then go to KickStarter for whatever's left. But, I can't stress enough that we're going to need everyone's help in promoting this to make sure we kill the funding goal, KickStarter or not.
Will do.
Awesome, @colter ripton! We've got to be nearing the 60-70 mark now.
Got it, @Mathieu. I think there's a lot to be said for the compartments, but in order to achieve the maximum appeal to all markets, the flat bottom does make some sense. (Casinos could really push us over the top, if we could even get one or two local/independent casinos on board. They won't have any use for compartments.) As far as which tooling to acquire first goes, does my idea of starting with the flat base, then the 1000-chip handle, then the base with compartments make sense? As in, make sure we have enough orders to acquire tooling for a flat-based unit, and then, when we go over that goal by enough to be able to afford the tooling for the more expensive base with compartments, get that made too?
We're looking better and better! Thanks, @ADS Aviator!
I'm ordering some Kem bridge-size cards, as we speak. Aside from these, I have yet to find a deck of cards that doesn't fit inside of the card compartments. The largest ones I could find were Midnight Playing Cards' Cosmic Lanes deck. The compartments on the prototypes fit these cards in the box, just fine. But, I'm all ears! If you guys want a drawer, let's go for it. We'll just need to decide on which route we want to go so I can create the model and get quotes for tooling.
The support is overwhelming, guys. Thank you, @Chbyfngr!
I think I'll have to get some of these from Gene. I'm sure we could accommodate those too, pretty easily.If the Aurora cage was to magically include 71mm racks that fit the PGI/Gene 8V's, I'm absolutely down for 1x 1,000
justsomedude
Straight Flush
I think you need to do a poll to gauge demand accurately.
I think 800 or 1,000 chip cases will be your biggest draw to start, but you need to verify with a poll. I also think a flat base is the simpler way to start but, again, confirm with a poll. (y) :thumbsup:
Simplest things first. Flat base/handle, box with 1000-chip capacity. Everything else can flow from there. For those that are waiting on 600s and 800s, just buy the 1000s first. Sell them later on the secondary market when the other sizes become available, because the late adopters will want to see the first production ones in action before they jump in.
Now the problem is those aren't being made anymore. Would you consider manufacturing chip racks to go with the container? I'm pretty confident you might find demand for that product line in various sizes as well.
OP
OP
@WedgeRock We don't need to come up with 300-500 on this forum only. (Again, the numbers will change, in all likelihood, and it's difficult to say at this early phase which way they'll go.) But if we can get better than 100 on this forum alone, that should be the momentum we need to get others to follow suit.
I believe @justsomedude has covered the benefits of the Apex on the high-end. On the low-end of the spectrum ... if I were to go to my Ford dealer to buy a truck and they told me I could have an F-150 XL work truck for $30,000...or a fully-loaded F-450 Platinum for $30,000, I would buy two F-450's. It would make me sad for anyone to choose the Amazon case over the Apex at a similar price point, but if that's your preference...
I'm glad someone else here has dealt with the cost of injection molding. I won't be alone, here. @justsomedude
3D printing has some limitations. It's perfect for prototyping or even for creating things for personal use--I do it all the time!--but the major drawbacks are that it's too slow for production, which increases the cost per hour, and the higher the resolution of the print, the more expensive. I'm sure the member who's printing those racks is being generous with his time and materials to make it viable.
Thanks, @Poker Zombie! It really is good to be back. I appreciate the help you gave, trying to get the word out. I hope you're ready to do it again!
Exact dimensions are on the way. The Apexes shouldn't be too much bigger than a standard birdcage, especially if we opt for a flat bottom, with no compartments. Depends on how much wiggle room you have in your shelves.You're right about shipping. It's going to take custom packaging and boxes. I worked that out long ago and I'm going through all of my notes now.
If there's a market, sure!
Is that a commitment to three?
I'll have to acquire some 43mm chips and racks to troubleshoot this. Any volunteers to send me some, @Poker Zombie?
I'll pay shipping.
OP
OP
This is a winning strategy. This will get us there, @allforcharity.
Man, @mrplacey, you guys are making me put all my ideas out there all at once!
I do have an idea for a poker chip rack/tray codenamed PCR, the perfect chip rack. I may just bite the bullet and throw the design out on PCF somewhere--maybe here--but the idea is to make a chip rack that holds both 39mm and 42mm chips comfortably. (This is the biggest challenge of the project and it may end up being two separate models.) The other concept behind it is a little difficult to explain. There will be two racks: a "half rack" and a "full rack." Now, stay with me, here. The half rack, which is similar to a regular rack, would go on the bottom. You'd fill it with 100 chips, as usual. Then the full rack, which looks similar to two regular racks put together bottom-to-bottom, would go over the top of the 100 chips in the half rack, completely enveloping. Then you could put 100 more chips in the top of the full rack. When you're out of chips, you stick another half rack on the top. The idea is to completely seal the chips. Also, the edges of the racks would have a tongue-and-groove so that they stay together. You know what? A picture is worth a thousand words; I'm starting a new thread for this. Bare with me. Acrylic takes a long time to render.The point is maybe we should do both projects concurrently.
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A locking mechanism. Either a lock on your end, or a hole jist slightly above the acrylic cages on the handle that a padlock could fit into. I store mine in a bar type setup, where kids have access to. I’d prefer my 14 year olds kids can’t access them, but, I like being able to see them on the shelf.
DeeVee8
Straight
Perhaps storage in the base for....plaques?
OP
OP
This is a great idea. I wonder if the handle would be sufficient though. If there's confirmed interest in designing a hole into either side of the handle to fit a lock shackle, it would be easy to implement.
Definitely not a bad idea. I wonder if a drawer, as opposed to compartments, would be sufficient for them. Maybe I could also design an acrylic rack for those that goes on top of the chip racks?
DeeVee8
Straight
Drawer or rack would be sweet.
FDLmold
Royal Flush
You only need a hole in the exposed handle for a lock. If you use a master lock it will just look like it is sitting on top of the carrier.
I think to be successful the first run needs to accommodate 43mm racks.
I think to be successful the first run needs to accommodate 43mm racks.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
Sadly, I don't have a full rack of 43mm chips (yet). The lack of storage has kept me from actively pursuing more, but with a couple 43mm GB projects on the forum right now, this birdcage project is very timely.I'll have to acquire some 43mm chips and racks to troubleshoot this. Any volunteers to send me some, @Poker Zombie?
I could care less about the 43 mm racks, but if it is easy to,accommodate both for the same price, then sure.. I think the factor that will be the biggest draw is a viable birdcage of super solid quality construction at a reasonable price. I think if you make it solid and simple, and the price is low, then it will sell like hot cakes.
I was initially all for the fancy card cutouts and such I think that might add significant cost, so I’d just go simple, and strong. Any slide out drawers might be a novel idea, but for what this would cost us, I’d just assume carry the cards in my pocket, lol.
I’m also not a huge fan of the acrylic handle... I like the glass resin handle or whatever is most strongest.
I prefer a 800 chip carrier, since that’s what I’d use for a traveling game, but I’d order at least two 1000 ct carriers if that’s the only option. The idea of a 1200 ct unit is meh, overly heavy, and I wouldn’t buy one.
Looking forward to where this goes.
I was initially all for the fancy card cutouts and such I think that might add significant cost, so I’d just go simple, and strong. Any slide out drawers might be a novel idea, but for what this would cost us, I’d just assume carry the cards in my pocket, lol.
I’m also not a huge fan of the acrylic handle... I like the glass resin handle or whatever is most strongest.
I prefer a 800 chip carrier, since that’s what I’d use for a traveling game, but I’d order at least two 1000 ct carriers if that’s the only option. The idea of a 1200 ct unit is meh, overly heavy, and I wouldn’t buy one.
Looking forward to where this goes.
There isn’t a lot of material in the exposed handle. It appears maybe adding just a tad bit of material in the bottom might help with that. (Where my finger is)
Attachments
justsomedude
Straight Flush
Looking at his future business prospects ... how much long term demand is there really going to be for 43mm birdcages? And how many people want chip storage for 39mm sets with all kinds of weird extra space?
Not trying to poo poo your idea, just making sure we are helping him create a product with some longevity, and not just filling a wonky market niche.
markleteenie
4 of a Kind
Finally made it through all the posts! First of all, well done with the design and initiative, I like where this is going!
39mm is my primary concern, even though I also have 43 mm chips. But those are currently in Matsui racks, which don't look like they work with the base plate rack stabilizer (nubs). Also, I would never run a pure 43 mm set, so a way to include both would be benefitial - but that seems more of a rack stacking issue. Unless you had like a dividing plate to go over and create a new "base" for stacking a different size rack?
I agree with most that the cards and button need to be at the top and not in the base as a cutout. You would have to unload the whole birdcage to start playing - not as practical. Though the tray/door/storage in the bottom seems neat, for the extra weight, cost and potential weakness (or any moving piece), I say put it on the back burner. If there was a rack for cards/buttons (@justsomedude), that would be ideal, and the most versatile. Maybe even have a "blank" rack tray with pick n pluck foam (or something classier) so people could customize it to their own deck/button size. It would also prevent rattling or scratching...
My initial interest is either in 800 or 1000 ct. With a 1000 ct, I could still have an extra bit of space at the top (for the future card/button setup).
39mm is my primary concern, even though I also have 43 mm chips. But those are currently in Matsui racks, which don't look like they work with the base plate rack stabilizer (nubs). Also, I would never run a pure 43 mm set, so a way to include both would be benefitial - but that seems more of a rack stacking issue. Unless you had like a dividing plate to go over and create a new "base" for stacking a different size rack?
I agree with most that the cards and button need to be at the top and not in the base as a cutout. You would have to unload the whole birdcage to start playing - not as practical. Though the tray/door/storage in the bottom seems neat, for the extra weight, cost and potential weakness (or any moving piece), I say put it on the back burner. If there was a rack for cards/buttons (@justsomedude), that would be ideal, and the most versatile. Maybe even have a "blank" rack tray with pick n pluck foam (or something classier) so people could customize it to their own deck/button size. It would also prevent rattling or scratching...
My initial interest is either in 800 or 1000 ct. With a 1000 ct, I could still have an extra bit of space at the top (for the future card/button setup).
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
Judging from that photo, a padlock may be able to wrap the handle, thus allowing the "sheath" to only be lifted a few inches.
If the few inches only exposes the thick base where the cards/button hides, the chips would remain secure to all but a determined thief... and I have not yet met the master lock that would prevent a determined thief.
ThinkingFold
Flush
If there is a count being taken, I would almost certainly be in for two 1000 count 43mm cases.
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