Anyone Play 1/3 and 2/5 Cash NLHE @ Aria & Bellagio? - Needing Advice (2 Viewers)

[PokerDogDoc]

Headed to Vegas on Sunday for our annual vacation and will be playing some 1/3 cash midweek while the WSOP is in town.
We stay at Park MGM, so I usually saunter over to the Aria or Bellagio for 1/3 NLHE, or head over to the Paris to play cash in the WSOP corral.
Not a fan of the Horseshoe poker room for cash (dim light, bad chairs, bad dealers).
Tried the Wynn, but it was slow as hell during the day last year with no "good" tables at the low stakes.

I'm 60 years old and a solid recreational "for profit" player at 1/2 and 1/3 NLHE, averaging 15-18 bb/hour at the poker rooms in St. Louis and Kansas City where I get to play 1/3 stakes every 3-4 months most of the year. In those games I buy in for the $300 max and keep $200 in pocket for top ups. If I bust with that, then I leave.

I have a small bankroll for Vegas this year ($1500) as I'm paying for the trip using my 2025 game winnings.

Based on my play and what I hear from people like Bart Hanson (Crush Live Poker) about the 2/5 game play, I'm considering moving up stakes from 1/3 to 2/5 in order to beat the rake and be even more profitable--even if I only buy in short-stacked for $400-500 to limit losses during my "break in" adjustment period (per Bart).

I also want to try it in Vegas since the rake is so low (10%, max $6), the Aria and Bellagio don't take promo drops on top of the rake, and they only allow UTG to straddle (I hate when the f*ing button straddles when I'm in the blinds).

For those that play 1/3 or 2/5 NLHE at the Aria and/or Bellagio, what are your thoughts on:

1) Buy-in caps are now raised for Aria and Bellagio
-I was planning on buying in for the old max at 2/5 ($500) x 3 sessions, but the Aria and Bellagio have just upped their buy-in caps.
Aria's 1/3 game is now a $500 cap
Aria's 2/5 game is now a $1500 cap

Bellagio's 1/3 game is now a $500 cap
Bellagio's 2/5 game is now a $1000 cap

-Can I still be competitive with a $500 buy in at 2/5 in these higher buy-in games?

----

2) Moving up in stakes to 2/5 vs. staying at 1/3
-I'm "told" that the 2/5 game doesn't really play much different than 1/3 and most of the "serious" pros are at 5/10 or higher.
-What's been your experience on 1/3 vs. 2/5 along the Vegas Strip, specifically Aria and Bellagio?

3) Do the better players really migrate from 2/5 to 5/10?
-As I check on Bravo Poker, Aria's only been running two or three 2/5 tables with zero or sometimes one 5/10 table most weeknights, while the Bellagio's been running five or six 2/5 tables at night with three or four 5/10 tables.
-I'm thinking I should find a room (i.e. Bellagio) that has a lot of 5/10 tables to help me out by NOT having those players at my 2/5 table, allowing more Tourists/Recs there instead.... sound logic?

 

[acezag]

With $1000 / 1500 dollar buy-ins, I'd expect grinders and pros anywhere, but especially Vegas, to be bum hunting 2/5 pretty closely.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

Vegas poker is miserable. Bellagio more miserable than Aria. I think you’d want at least 5k bank to play 2/5.

Just got back from a trip. Private games playing with degens is the way to go.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Vegas poker is miserable. Bellagio more miserable than Aria. I think you’d want at least 5k bank to play 2/5.

Why? Are public games just too reggy and boring? I'm clueless, I haven't been to Vegas.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

Why? Are public games just too reggy and boring? I'm clueless, I haven't been to Vegas.

I’ve been playing cash in Vegas since cash played at the tables. It’s gotten more and more grindy, full of regs, and not fun.

I recognize half the people at Aria whenever I walk through. And I only go a handful of times a year. They make their daily quota and leave. Maybe rathole. They bitch and moan over bomb pots, straddles, and make sure to tip the smallest amount possible, citing their ROI and spreadsheets.

The regs either directly or indirectly collude with each other. Against you. My 5/10 game 2 trips ago had 3 young kid locals berating the play of their buddy who kept “misplaying” against me.

PLO is more popular now probably because people are tired of the holdem grind, but it’s always the same characters at Aria PLO.

Venetian is considered a more fun, action room. Wynn is action but for generally higher stakes.

I would be very wary of a 1.5k bankroll at 2/5 in Vegas. That’s either 1 buy in or you’re not going to be able to catch enough of my punt waiting for my 5/10 seat.

 

[PokerDogDoc]

With $1000 / 1500 dollar buy-ins, I'd expect grinders and pros anywhere, but especially Vegas, to be bum hunting 2/5 pretty closely.

Hmmm. Interesting point.

Why? Are public games just too reggy and boring? I'm clueless, I haven't been to Vegas.

I’ve been playing cash in Vegas since cash played at the tables. It’s gotten more and more grindy, full of regs, and not fun.

I recognize half the people at Aria whenever I walk through. And I only go a handful of times a year. They make their daily quota and leave. Maybe rathole. They bitch and moan over bomb pots, straddles, and make sure to tip the smallest amount possible, citing their ROI and spreadsheets.
…
The regs either directly or indirectly collude with each other. Against you.
…
Venetian is considered a more fun, action room. Wynn is action but for generally higher stakes.

I would be very wary of a 1.5k bankroll at 2/5 in Vegas. That’s either 1 buy in or you’re not going to be able to catch enough of my punt waiting for my 5/10 seat.

All valid points.

Any other opinions?

 

[MrCatPants]

Also - going at WSOP time the bigger rooms and mid sized NLHE games get a infestation of...players from overseas who wear scarves and headphones and don't talk... (I'll avoid the potential poker slur). VERY grindy and particularly miserable. Would suggest going offstrip if you can, or sticking to 1/3 given the budget you're proposing.

 

[PokerDogDoc]

Also - going at WSOP time the bigger rooms and mid sized NLHE games get a infestation of...players from overseas who wear scarves and headphones and don't talk... (I'll avoid the potential poker slur). VERY grindy and particularly miserable. Would suggest going offstrip if you can, or sticking to 1/3 given the budget you're proposing.

Interesting… that’s not been my experience over the past 5 years during WSOP.

Tourists from other countries? Sure.

Euro Grinders? Not at my tables, but that may be a function of playing 1/3 more than anything else.

Thanks for the feedback. Will watch for that this year.

 

[SixSeven]

I'm not a reg, but I played at Horseshoe and Bellagio (1/3) during Thanksgiving last year. Maybe different crowd then, but I found the tables to be pretty soft. YMMV, but I think it is work trying them, even with a $1500 bank roll. You can stick to the $300 buy in like the old max, and see how you do. GL>

 

[toothpic]

Also - going at WSOP time the bigger rooms and mid sized NLHE games get a infestation of...players from overseas who wear scarves and headphones and don't talk... (I'll avoid the potential poker slur). VERY grindy and particularly miserable. Would suggest going offstrip if you can, or sticking to 1/3 given the budget you're proposing.

Interesting… that’s not been my experience over the past 5 years during WSOP.

Tourists from other countries? Sure.

Euro Grinders? Not at my tables, but that may be a function of playing 1/3 more than anything else.

Thanks for the feedback. Will watch for that this year.

Worst than Euro grinders, they are clear Euro Nits. I had a guy at my table last time I played at Bellagio and he would fold his small blind 5/6 times. He called the BB with AQ suited in middle position. He called a single raise with JJ. Then later I had KK in a hand with him where I 3x him and he 4x me. I knew I was fucked and folded and showed. He made the "impressive" face gesture as the pot was pushed his way. I'm still pretty confident he had AA....

 

[Cheekynugget]

During WSOP it wont be infested and "reggy" at the 1/3. Youll be fine at Aria with the countless tables. And building a big win at 1/3 is completely possible.
Additionally a ton of soft play at WSOP 1/3, but the rake might hurt you if youre a rake nit, and also incredibly slow hand shuffles is annoying.

 

[PokerDogDoc]

During WSOP it wont be infested and "reggy" at the 1/3. Youll be fine at Aria with the countless tables. And building a big win at 1/3 is completely possible.
Additionally a ton of soft play at WSOP 1/3, but the rake might hurt you if youre a rake nit, and also incredibly slow hand shuffles is annoying.

Thanks… I’m well-familiarized with 1/3 at Aria during WSOP and concur in your assessment thru my own experiences and profits.

I’m more looking at it from trying 2/5 and if Bellagio might be a better place to play that.

 

[PokerDogDoc]

Leaving tomorrow (Sunday).

Any last comments from the PCF gallery?

I’ll report back later with results.

 

[doublebooyah85]

$1500 bankroll is barely enough for min buy ins at the smallest stakes. GL! Can’t go wrong with any of the poker rooms during WSOP. Long waits and it’s all about game selection.

 

[Old State]

AC….particularly Borgata is my “home” casino but I played $1/3 two years ago in Vegas during a week long work trip. I didn’t find it anything as described above. Very similar to AC poker. @DirtyTIVA …do you play on weekends? The players you describe seem like weekend players in AC.

I played in few very short stints during the work meeting at night. The final day (meeting ended at noon) was a Thursday starting at 1pm and ending at 2am. I played at Wynn, Bellagio, and Aria.

Wynn seemed to have slightly above average players compared to the others but I still profited a few hundred making hands and getting paid off with loose calls or by players that couldn’t get off of top pair….basically fishy weak tourist types
Bellagio was by far the easiest game. Almost everyone playing sucked. A guy to my left dumped $800 in about 90 mins…. $100 at a time! A lot of Old Man Coffee types too. If you are going with a $1500 bank roll that’s where I would play 100%

Aria was where we stayed and when I was playing there it was always at night. This was the wildest loosest game with many players that knew the dealers…reminded me the most of weekday poker at Borgata. Also the drunkest players.

Heading out there again for our National Sales Meeting in October. Staying at Aria again.

 

[thePokerClub]

In the last year I have played 2/5 at Bellagio on two occasions.

I believe I bought in for $500 both times. Did fine on min buy, didn't seem like much of an issue. Yes there clearly were a few pros, but most were just travelers who happen to know how to play. Good amount of action around.

Would imagine since it is a holiday weekend you would have a good mix.

 

[acezag]

AC….particularly Borgata is my “home” casino but I played $1/3 two years ago in Vegas during a week long work trip. I didn’t find it anything as described above. Very similar to AC poker. @DirtyTIVA …do you play on weekends? The players you describe seem like weekend players in AC.

I played in few very short stints during the work meeting at night. The final day (meeting ended at noon) was a Thursday starting at 1pm and ending at 2am. I played at Wynn, Bellagio, and Aria.

Wynn seemed to have slightly above average players compared to the others but I still profited a few hundred making hands and getting paid off with loose calls or by players that couldn’t get off of top pair….basically fishy weak tourist types
Bellagio was by far the easiest game. Almost everyone playing sucked. A guy to my left dumped $800 in about 90 mins…. $100 at a time! A lot of Old Man Coffee types too. If you are going with a $1500 bank roll that’s where I would play 100%

Aria was where we stayed and when I was playing there it was always at night. This was the wildest loosest game with many players that knew the dealers…reminded me the most of weekday poker at Borgata. Also the drunkest players.

Heading out there again for our National Sales Meeting in October. Staying at Aria again.

I think you're greatly underestimating how the change to a 300 BB buy-in changes the game.

IMO that's a casino advertising to pros to come feast on their tourists.

 

[Cheekynugget]

Thanks… I’m well-familiarized with 1/3 at Aria during WSOP and concur in your assessment thru my own experiences and profits.

I’m more looking at it from trying 2/5 and if Bellagio might be a better place to play that.

One thing I often do (if your body can manage) is get up to play the games at 6 am.

I always get up at 6am regardless to walk to the dog annd get coffee. I always just make my way downstairs tom check out the poker room. During Wsop often times these games run overnight. And if they do, the players are certainly not playing their A game. It’s often a bit less wild and some obvious profitable opportunities arise.

 

[Old State]

I think you're greatly underestimating how the change to a 300 BB buy-in changes the game.

IMO that's a casino advertising to pros to come feast on their tourists.

Huh? No clue what you are referring to. I’ve been playing casino poker for over 25 years. Not sure what I’m “underestimating”.

Casinos don’t “advertise to pros”. Bigger buy-ins usually equal splashier games which equal larger pots…. which equal larger rake. Nothing to do with “pros”

Same reason they are all going to 8 handed tables…more tables more rake

 

[acezag]

You might have missed earlier where he mentioned Bellagio had raised blinds to 300 bbs.

That's deeper than many 5/10 games around the US. I'm not disputing that you're a great and experienced player, but there's also no disputing that a game playing that deep is a huge advantage to professionals.

A casino doesn't raise the blinds like that to advantage casual tourists.

 

[Old State]

You might have missed earlier where he mentioned Bellagio had raised blinds to 300 bbs.

That's deeper than many 5/10 games around the US. I'm not disputing that you're a great and experienced player, but there's also no disputing that a game playing that deep is a huge advantage to professionals.

A casino doesn't raise the blinds like that to advantage casual tourists.

Bellagio simply raised the buyin to what is most typical in card rooms in Vegas and AC….really most places I’m aware of. $400- 500 max for $1/3 is very common as is their new buy in for $2/5.

Their no logical reason for a casino to want to cater to professional poker players. There’s very few of those around. You want cater to the tourists that’ll splash around and dump money. The bigger the pots and the more pots, the more rake for the casino. Poker makes very little money in comparison to table games and slots for the casino. Catering to professionals would drive off regulars. There is simply no reason to do that. It’s counterproductive.

 

[acezag]

Bellagio simply raised the buyin to what is most typical in card rooms in Vegas and AC….really most places I’m aware of. $400- 500 max for $1/3 is very common as is their new buy in for $2/5.

Their no logical reason for a casino to want to cater to professional poker players. There’s very few of those around. You want cater to the tourists that’ll splash around and dump money. The bigger the pots and the more pots, the more rake for the casino. Poker makes very little money in comparison to table games and slots for the casino. Catering to professionals would drive off regulars. They’re simply no reason to do that. It’s counterproductive.

The main reason a casino starts catering to pros is if they're struggling to attract casuals. This move suggests traditionally tourist friendly places in Vegas are struggling.

No offense, but it's kind of wild to argue with someone playing for 20 years that playing deep is an advantage. We're decades past that being an opinion.

 

[PokerDogDoc]

Great points and great conversation by all!

I love the varied viewpoints expressed here tied to personal experiences.

Headed to bed now as I’ve got an early rise time and 2 hour drive to the airport in the morning.

Will drop in and make updated reports through the week and share my personal experiences and hopefully some “poker profit” along the way.

Viva Las Vegas!

 

[Old State]

The main reason a casino starts catering to pros is if they're struggling to attract casuals. This move suggests traditionally tourist friendly places in Vegas are struggling.

No offense, but it's kind of wild to argue with someone playing for 20 years that playing deep is an advantage. We're decades past that being an opinion.

That’s not my argument. You came up with the position for me. This is the classic strawman argument

I think it’s wild you think casinos want more pros to plays at their low stakes games. I’m not sure you are really thinking this through.

There’s no advantage to the professional because everybody can do it! When I go play in Atlantic City almost everybody cashes in at the max. Yes you’ll have a few novice people that cash in short stacked but that is rare. And I’m not playing against professionals at 1/3! Any competent poker player understands you benefit with a larger stack IF you feel you have an advantage in skill. This isn’t a “pro” thing

You aren’t going to find many pros at low stakes. Most are at $5-10 and usually higher.

Buyins for no limit cash games have increased over the years. it has absolutely positively zero to do with attracting professionals. It has everything to do with increasing the action at the table among all players..

I would wager any amount of money you’d like that if you go talk to any major casino poker room manager and ask if the blinds are what they are to attract professionals, they will laugh at you

Do you play often at casinos? It doesn’t sound like you do if you think low stakes poker tables are filled with professionals


The Bellagio Poker room is not hurting for business. Neither or any of these famous ones.

 

[dizzyChipper]

Bellagio > Aria
2-5 > 1-3
$500 buy ins are totally fine and if there’s a pro there they’ll think you’re a rec short buying scared money and may be more likely to play back at you light (but your image will be OMC so maybe not).

As others have pointed out the players you want to play with are at PLO now.

The bankroll is the biggest problem it seems. Only get up if you’re tilted and think you’ll play bad. Otherwise it happens…. Coolers. They get there. Etc. may have to dip into next years poker winnings to enjoy your time in Vegas.

Consider Venetian and Caesars rooms too??

Paris room will have the tournament fish in there but note the rake structure vs the HS room. I think the HS room is a decent choice as all of the WSOP recs will definitely be there happy to splash around without the rake premium (I don’t recall the difference) of Paris.

Good luck.

 

[acezag]

There’s no advantage to professional because everybody can do it!

You've got to be kidding.

 

[quintooo]

willingly grinding vegas poker, texas holdem no less, sounds masochistic; but hey I'm not kink shaming.

at least you're going during memorial, hope to get into a table with a bunch of drunk frat guys.

 

[PokerDogDoc]

…
@acezag and @Old State ….
Okay you two…your differing viewpoints are noted… now take your argument somewhere other than my thread.
…

 

[Donkeyfish]

As a local, play at Orleans or SouthPoint, you’ll have way more fun than with the WSOP crowd.