How to handle a misdeal? (4 Viewers)

[SwissChip]

How do you handle the following situation?
Dealer dealt the river card before the turn was completely played.

3 players in the hand.
Player one bets the turn.
Player two calls.
Then dealer accidently shows the 5. card
before player three act.

All 3 hands dead?
New river card gets dealt after player three played?

Thanks!

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Definitely not hands dead, that would be worst.

Premature river card gets shuffled back into the stub and recut. Action back on P3. Continue as normal after making a premature ejaculation joke.

 

[Marc Hedrick]

The river gets shuffled back into the stub, and a new river gets put out at the proper time.

It doesn't matter if player three says he was going to fold, it has to happen no matter what.

 

[suchj0sh]

Is there a good resource for this kind of stuff? I should probably brush up on some of the basics.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Is there a good resource for this kind of stuff? I should probably brush up on some of the basics.

Robert's rules of poker is a standard for many cash rooms, and the Tournament Directors Association (TDA) for tournaments.

https://www.homepokergames.com/roberts-rules-poker.php

 

[BEANO52]

Robert's rules of poker is a standard for many cash rooms, and the Tournament Directors Association (TDA) for tournaments.

https://www.homepokergames.com/roberts-rules-poker.php

TDA Rules:

https://www.pokertda.com/wp-content...ules-2015-Version-1.0-full-longform-PDF-1.pdf

 

[SwissChip]

Thanks a lot guys!
Very helpful and accurate answers.

The joke afterwards is the most important part ; ))

 

[rrobyrrroby]

Can we apply this rule also if it happens on the turn?

 

[Jimulacrum]

Can we apply this rule also if it happens on the turn?

Yes. In that event, shuffle the premature turn back into the deck and continue the deal as normal. (This will re-roll the river too.)

All 3 hands dead?

Responding to this by killing hands or calling it a misdeal/foul would be madness. Basically anytime the dealer doesn't like his hand, he'd be able to get his money back by making a dealing error.

 

[mdt11]

Yes. In that event, shuffle the premature turn back into the deck and continue the deal as normal. (This will re-roll the river too.)

In my game we would burn the third card and deal the river face down, so the river stays the same, then reshuffle the exposed turn card into the stub. In the end, ofc it’s all the same random chance, but it satisfies the superstitious types.

 

[Jimulacrum]

In my game we would burn the third card and deal the river face down, so the river stays the same, then reshuffle the exposed turn card into the stub. In the end, ofc it’s all the same random chance, but it satisfies the superstitious types.

I did this for a time too, because this was the standard back when I learned it. Now, if I find myself running a game again, I'd do a full re-roll.

I don't like satisfying the superstitious types. The whole Sacred Order of the Cards mentality is silly. People can believe what they want, but the rules should make sense and serve the overarching purpose of dealing from a randomized deck: to provide a randomized outcome at each street, not to preordain an unchangeable outcome.

 

[bergs]

Taze the dealer in the balls.

All players hands are dead.

Players in the hand go backyard Beyond Thunderdome, and one man leaves with pot.

 

[upNdown]

TDA Rules:

https://www.pokertda.com/wp-content...ules-2015-Version-1.0-full-longform-PDF-1.pdf

Regarding a premature turn card, its interesting that you posted the 2015 rules, because they contain the old procedure which attempted to preserve the original order river (for those superstitious types. Since then, the rule has been changed, to the chagrin of the superstitious.
see rule RP-5
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/6v7o...x&rlkey=twogls36dvxwpklmf5vr2z8zq&st=u4d5di2h

 

[Jimulacrum]

Taze the dealer in the balls.

All players hands are dead.

Players in the hand go backyard Beyond Thunderdome, and one man leaves with pot.

Berg's Rules of Poker is not for the faint of heart.

 

[Gear]

to the chagrin of the superstitious.

Don't they know it's bad luck to be superstitious?

 

[TheWhat]

Yes. In that event, shuffle the premature turn back into the deck and continue the deal as normal. (This will re-roll the river too.)


Responding to this by killing hands or calling it a misdeal/foul would be madness. Basically anytime the dealer doesn't like his hand, he'd be able to get his money back by making a dealing error.

Is the entire stub being reshuffle after the card goes back in? Or is it a situation where we know the shown card, has no chance of being turned again.

 

[TheOffalo]

Is the entire stub being reshuffle after the card goes back in? Or is it a situation where we know the shown card, has no chance of being turned again.

Add the prematurely exposed card back in the stub and then reshuffle. It has the same chance as any other card to appear on the board.

(If the intent is for it not to have any chance to show up again then there’s no need to reshuffle the stub. It could just be burned instead and the next card dealt at the appropriate time. Before learning the “proper” way it should be done as described above, this was one of the ways my game chose to resolve the issue.)

 

[KingWithTheAxe]

Make sure you lambast the dealer, really make them feel like garbage. Especially if it’s bar league poker and they’re a volunteer dealer.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Make sure you lambast the dealer, really make them feel like garbage. Especially if it’s bar league poker and they’re a volunteer dealer.

It was ONE TIME and she gave me a look. 85 year olds shouldn't be responsible for table dynamics, damnit.

 

[Jimulacrum]

(If the intent is for it not to have any chance to show up again then there’s no need to reshuffle the stub. It could just be burned instead and the next card dealt at the appropriate time. Before learning the “proper” way it should be done as described above, this was one of the ways my game chose to resolve the issue.)

Treating it as a dead exposed card isn't ideal but isn't the end of the world either, IMO. Obviously the downside is that this card no longer has an equal chance of appearing, but knowing nothing about the players' hands, it's a fair/neutral option that spares you the awkwardness of shuffling the card back into the deck.*

Spoiler: *

Sometimes players will act a fool about the whole thing, and in their whinging make it clear that the premature card is a really big deal for their hand (usually an improvement). If this happens before you decide how to resolve it, it can create the appearance that this knowledge may be a factor in your decision. Always better to have a canned solution that is not up for debate, whatever that solution is.

 

[SwissChip]

It happend 3-4 times over the years.
We handled like this:
The exposed card was the burn card.
Wich leads to an advantage or disadvantage to one or the other player…

It seems like put the exposed card back in the deck then shuffling, is the fairest solution!

And the dealer got to pay a drink for all ; )

 

[Jimulacrum]

And the dealer got to pay a drink for all ; )

+1,000 on this.

 

[SwissChip]

Taze the dealer in the balls.

All players hands are dead.

Players in the hand go backyard Beyond Thunderdome, and one man leaves with pot.

My house - my rules!! Hahaaa
But we don‘t have a permanent host, we play in a cabin we rent.
So more friendly rules ; )

 

[merkong]

Definitely not hands dead, that would be worst.

Premature river card gets shuffled back into the stub and recut. Action back on P3. Continue as normal after making a premature ejaculation joke.

No new burn.

 

[merkong]

Whatever you do, do it that way all the time.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

No new burn.

Why? Burn is easily discernible in our cases, if we're resetting I'd rather ensure proper procedure on dealing the river. I like to limit changes to my dealing procedure, just lowers the chances that I make a compounding mistake. I always burn before the river, therefore I'll do it again.


Definitely agreed, same every time.

 

[Jimulacrum]

But we don‘t have a permanent host, we play in a cabin we rent.
So more friendly rules ; )

I am a big proponent of having only one shot-caller (and standard rules) in any poker game.

You can get away with ruling by committee ("friendly rules") in many cases, but it can get messy in disputes where players stand to gain or lose substantially by the ruling, such as premature board cards.

 

[SwissChip]

I am a big proponent of having only one shot-caller (and standard rules) in any poker game.

You can get away with ruling by committee ("friendly rules") in many cases, but it can get messy in disputes where players stand to gain or lose substantially by the ruling, such as premature board cards.

We do the usual poker rules - not official casino weight, but as fair as possible.

I referred on the quite harsh rules by kicking the dealers crown jewels and all hands are dead ; )
A bit more ‚friendly‘ than this. But still fair.

So burn or no burn?
(This is why it was/is the burn card in our game)

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

So burn or no burn?
(This is why it was/is the burn card in our game)

In reality it does not matter, it is a card separate from the muck used to mask the top of the deck during a hand; you can decide to keep that as the burn card, reshuffle it in, burn a second time, whatever works! As long as you're consistent. I always advocate for limiting the changes to how I do things, so I want to either shuffle that burn card back in OR just burn again when dealing. This is another reason to keep the burn cards separate from the muck, helps with apes asking "did you burn?!" every other hand.

 

[SwissChip]

I place burned cards left side the flop.
Not all do the same.

To get the usual 3 burn cards (no double runs or so), burn after shuffle and cut seems good to me.

Thanks!!