Morals, ethics, legalities or hardcore chip harvesting. (3 Viewers)

[Eloe2000]

My favorite casino was the Taj Mahal. They have dozens and dozens of special edition and commemorative chips. And they only made them on the $5s, $25s, and $100s. Do you know why? Because they wanted you to take them home for the sake of advertising and it was profitable for them.

If they ask you to stop then stop or if they ask you to leave them leave. It certainly known that people take chips as souvenirs and I have never noticed a sign indicating it was against some rules nor to take them home.

 

[casinochipper22]

It’s more similar than you realize. Casino chips are casino property. Even when they are in your hands

I kind of agree with this. Chips are like the silverware of the casino.

 

[casinochipper22]

The NGC makes an official show of frowning, the casinos make an unofficial show of winking, people generally get what they want and money flows like whitewater rapids. What's there to object to, in the grand scheme of things?

Tables and cages running out of dollar chips.

 

[khp]

Tables and cages running out of dollar chips.

Interesting thread to follow. After marinating on the responses over a day, what’s your stance on your initial question now?

 

[Frogzilla]

Choctaw has mint live spotted fracs

 

[krafticus]

Disclaimer that I snag a chip or two at every casino I visit, I know it’s against the casino rules but I can’t seem to care

Wrong post..

 

[krafticus]

What if I went to a local bar and purchased a draft peroni, and they gave me said beer in a nice Peroni branded glass? Can I leave with that glass, after all I paid for a glass of beer.

Or would you agree that the glass is sold for a specific use, but I am not welcome to leave with the glass

Uhhh. I do this ….. sometimes…..

 

[casinochipper22]

Interesting thread to follow. After marinating on the responses over a day, what’s your stance on your initial question now?

What if I went to a local bar and purchased a draft peroni, and they gave me said beer in a nice Peroni branded glass? Can I leave with that glass, after all I paid for a glass of beer.

Or would you agree that the glass is sold for a specific use, but I am not welcome to leave with the glass

Morals, I would say if you feel guilty then it might be against your morals.

Sure the chip values are less than the cost of the product to produce, but again, the casino is freely offering it, and does not seem concerned by the loss, if they were they would invest in loss prevention, and you know its not gotta be cost prohibitive for them at this stage of the game with more cameras that employee eyes. I would venture to guess the tax lawyers write it off enough ways that the chips are next to free.

@khp these two comments really stood out. On one hand, it feels like the chips are the silverware/glasses of a casino. Meant for use while paying for service, and property of casino/restaurant. And then the other comment I never really thought of. The dollar chips do cost more than a dollar I've learned, so I've felt bad about literally costing the casinos money by walking out with chips. But at the same time they are depreciating assets, hell, it may even make them money if enough leave the casino. They may be free rolling on reorders if they have good accountants.

 

[casinochipper22]

Choctaw has mint live spotted fracs

seriously? I'll be on the next flight.

 

[Frogzilla]

Yep
Blaze quarter pies

 

[khp]

@khp these two comments really stood out. On one hand, it feels like the chips are the silverware/glasses of a casino. Meant for use while paying for service, and property of casino/restaurant. And then the other comment I never really thought of. The dollar chips do cost more than a dollar I've learned, so I've felt bad about literally costing the casinos money by walking out with chips. But at the same time they are depreciating assets, hell, it may even make them money if enough leave the casino. They may be free rolling on reorders if they have good accountants.

Oh wow, I didn’t know their $1s cost more than $1

 

[casinochipper22]

Yep
Blaze quarter pies
View attachment 738564

what kind of mold is that? not hat n canes? is it a paulson chip? and what tables are those .50 centers on? if you tell me they are on the poker tables then I will seriously start looking at flights now. haha

 

[allforcharity]

Oh wow, I didn’t know their $1s cost more than $1

It's probably pretty close. A typical RHC chip probably costs about $1, maybe a bit more if inlaid and house mold, maybe a bit less if hot stamped. A weighted Bud Jones chip probably costs a lot more. But they just rake in the cash when they let the $5 and up denom chips go out the door after being paid for, though I doubt they want any/many $100 or higher denoms out of their sight.

 

[Frogzilla]

what kind of mold is that? not hat n canes? is it a paulson chip? and what tables are those .50 centers on? if you tell me they are on the poker tables then I will seriously start looking at flights now. haha

Those are poker tables for the WPT

They give you 10 50c antes when you play black Jack, super easy harvesting (ironic for the thread)

 

[casinochipper22]

Those are poker tables for the WPT

They give you 10 50c antes when you play black Jack, super easy harvesting (ironic for the thread)

Ante blackjack/ table games is the most tilting thing in the world. You need to pay to make -EV bets. F%&$ing annoying.

 

[Machine]

Those $1s are ripe for murder.

 

[Jhoov2412]

If you really feel bad about costing the casinos money every time you harvest $1’s then from now on harvest some $5 also and let them make a little back. It’s not like you can’t sell them for face value or more to us junkies if they are in decent shape.

 

[CrazyEddie]

Most employees would just say no because they didn't want to hassle with it.

This is a good thing to bear in mind when interacting with anyone in a service-oriented position or industry. Sure, some people will go the extra mile for whatever you might need, but the average Joe is just trying to get through his day and honestly doesn't need to deal with your... your whatever your thing is. The better you can recognize that, the better positioned you'll be towards helping Joe help you.

 

[turboj623]

@khp these two comments really stood out. On one hand, it feels like the chips are the silverware/glasses of a casino. Meant for use while paying for service, and property of casino/restaurant. And then the other comment I never really thought of. The dollar chips do cost more than a dollar I've learned, so I've felt bad about literally costing the casinos money by walking out with chips. But at the same time they are depreciating assets, hell, it may even make them money if enough leave the casino. They may be free rolling on reorders if they have good accountants.

I wouldn't worry about costing the casino money when you take chips. There was one time where we were told by the casino operations manager that all of the chips on the floor had to be switched out. I think it had to do with some great counterfeit chips that made their way into the rotation and the cage caught it. We literally packed up tens of thousands of chips and sent them off to be destroyed. I remember commenting on how much money we just lost, and the operations manager made a quick remark saying the chips only reflect a small part of the operations budget, and that I would be more shocked if I saw how much the casino spent on complimentary drinks for the customers.

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

I wouldn't worry about costing the casino money when you take chips. There was one time where we were told by the casino operations manager that all of the chips on the floor had to be switched out. I think it had to do with some great counterfeit chips that made their way into the rotation and the cage caught it. We literally packed up tens of thousands of chips and sent them off to be destroyed. I remember commenting on how much money we just lost, and the operations manager made a quick remark saying the chips only reflect a small part of the operations budget, and that I would be more shocked if I saw how much the casino spent on complimentary drinks for the customers.

+1 used to work with someone in the Foxwoods accounting department and they said chip related expenses were barely a blip on the radar.

 

[CrazyEddie]

+1 used to work with someone in the Foxwoods accounting department and they said chip related expenses were barely a blip on the radar.

THEN THEY CAN DAMN WELL BLIP A FEW OF 'EM OUR WAY, NOW CAN'T THEY

 

[BGinGA]

The exchange of cash for casino currency (cash checks) or no-value tokens (tournament chips) is not a purchase -- you are exchanging cash for an item that belongs to the casino, to be used on the casino premises.... because casinos -- by law -- don't allow cash to play on the tables.

Legally, they can stop you from leaving the premises with casino property. Some do, others don't.

 

[cpiaaq]

I speculate that the Flamingo and Caesars Palace have moved to solid $1s due to harvesting. Surely solids cost less than spotted chips, but I really don't know.

 

[HaRDHouSeiNC]

What if I went to a local bar and purchased a draft peroni, and they gave me said beer in a nice Peroni branded glass? Can I leave with that glass, after all I paid for a glass of beer.

Or would you agree that the glass is sold for a specific use, but I am not welcome to leave with the glass

LOL I’m gonna plead the 5th to that
Ignore my beer glass collection in my cabinets XD

^^THIS. 100%

Casinos in Vegas and maybe elsewhere also have even made special commorative $8 chips, which aren't even used at table games*, for the specific reason for people to buy and take away from the casino. (The target market being people with a connection to asian cultures having 8 as a lucky number.)

[*Note: I think I recall reading the Nevada Gaming Commission now frowns on having special commemorative chips in denoms that aren't used in table games, so that maybe all future commemorative chips are $1 or $5 or $25 or other values.]

So if no one here has a chip for TreeFiddy in their custom set I’m gonna be damn disappointed

Morals, I would say if you feel guilty then it might be against your morals.
Legality, I'm not a lawyer, however I would argue that you've paid for a product and it is yours to do with as you wish, even sell it to a third party.

Ethics, ahh the juicy aspect of your morality for asking the question.

I think the center of the question is this... oh wait lets talk about poker real quick.

If your into chips it would follow you've played / enjoy poker; I'm not sure if it was Canada Bill Jones that said, 'It's immoral to let a sucker keep his money', or not, but I will say Americans and the wild west have embraced the notion of, for quite some time. I mention it because you're likely on one side of this or not already.

The casinos are not helpless grandmothers, or proprietors of entertainment offering lollipops to boyscouts for good will. In the poker game of life, CASINOS are the f*&king rake.

Sure the chip values are less than the cost of the product to produce, but again, the casino is freely offering it, and does not seem concerned by the loss, if they were they would invest in loss prevention, and you know its not gotta be cost prohibitive for them at this stage of the game with more cameras that employee eyes. I would venture to guess the tax lawyers write it off enough ways that the chips are next to free.

Edit:
Hell I bet there is even a way to mark the loss as 'Marketing costs'

The casinos make enough in a day to probably replace the entire chip rack
Color me carefree of any feelings they think they are ever LOOSING money ever

Choctaw has mint live spotted fracs

yup and they are fire
Just house mold though the only fail

Oh wow, I didn’t know their $1s cost more than $1

Like 1.25 last I heard

Those $1s are ripe for murder.

5s are cool too

I speculate that the Flamingo and Caesars Palace have moved to solid $1s due to harvesting. Surely solids cost less than spotted chips, but I really don't know.

I heard it doesn’t matter
Clay hat and cane were all pretty much the same supposedly like $1.25

what kind of mold is that? not hat n canes? is it a paulson chip? and what tables are those .50 centers on? if you tell me they are on the poker tables then I will seriously start looking at flights now. haha

get going sirrrrrrr
I’ll take 3 racks while they are minty new

 

[Machine]

What if I went to a local bar and purchased a draft peroni, and they gave me said beer in a nice Peroni branded glass? Can I leave with that glass, after all I paid for a glass of beer.

Or would you agree that the glass is sold for a specific use, but I am not welcome to leave with the glass

Gotta be careful @Frogzilla, this isn't a good example because of the double meaning, its actually equivocation fallacy. The glass isn't a rental as much as it is a vessel for the item purchased (this would apply to the rack though), which is mostly needed (the glass) as there are people who don't want to belly up to the tap. I am not of said people, give me a tap and no glass!

 

[ekricket]

Gotta be careful @Frogzilla, this isn't a good example because of the double meaning, its actually equivocation fallacy. The glass isn't a rental as much as it is a vessel for the item purchased (this would apply to the rack though), which is mostly needed (the glass) as there are people who don't want to belly up to the tap. I am not of said people, give me a tap and no glass!

So asking for “a glass of beer” is different than asking for “a glass with some beer in it”. One way you buy the beer, the other way you buy a dirty glass?

 

[Wheeler Assembly]

Choctaw has mint live spotted fracs

In Durant? Only for table games?

 

[Machine]

To further the word play, if I were the bartender I would have a container shaped as a glass but made of (mostly?) beer to sell you, or say beer inside of two glass panels.

Prescriptivism is real, I think you are asking in jest, if not your question is a non sequitur, but.. its more of the social contract / understanding we are talking about; Frog's example was slight off for an analogy, you move the goal posts with word play. Asking for a drink is very typical of any establishment where you would ask for such, but if you wanted to purchase a glass to leave with, I suspect you'd take a different approach than the examples you've listed.

Way off topic, but what if you asked for a glass of beer and was given a plastic cup with beer in it? would you throw it back at the bartender exclaiming "I said a fu@#ing GLASS of beer!!" or would you not be burdened to leave with the plastic glass? What if it was a very high quality of plastic not the thin crushable plastic cups?

 

[Taghkanic]

Anyone can get chips from any cage, or multiple cages, in any breakdown—right? Within reason?

The issue is not “buying” chips. It’s removing them from the casino.

Say someone confronted you at the cage because you asked for five racks each of 1s, 2s, 5s and 25s. If you said, “Oh, my wife and I are here for the weekend, and I don’t want to have to keep going back to the cage,” what could they say? Plenty of people keep extra chips in their room or backpack during a stay.

An issue would only arise when you left with them *and* someone noticed… In which case to avoid trouble you could just say you forgot to cash out. Or you’re going to the store and coming back, and don’t want to have to rebuy. Or you are giving them to your brother for Christmas because he’s coming to that casino at New Year’s. Or you wanted souvenirs and didn’t realize it wasn’t allowed. Or whatever.

As far as ethics… Except for rare denoms (likely the highest ones) casinos aren’t likely to run out or even notice if a handful of people over the course of many years walk off with a few unredeemed racks here and there… And I don’t hear a lot about harvesting $500 chips. They probably are turning a profit or close to break-even on unredeemed chips anyway, especially for anything over a $1.

Ethically I suppose there is an abstract issue, but it seems like a victimless “crime.”

 

[upNdown]

Ante blackjack/ table games is the most tilting thing in the world. You need to pay to make -EV bets. F%&$ing annoying.

I’m not laughing at you, I’m laughing at the idiots who pay to play a table game. I heard Foxwoods was spreading this at one point - I think maybe it was dollar blackjack with a quarter ante? I suppose it’s a cheap way to teach somebody blackjack, but it would be cheaper to just hit the gift shop and buy a deck.