Morals, ethics, legalities or hardcore chip harvesting. (1 Viewer)

[casinochipper22]

Looking for info, insight, some help with regards to chip harvesting. Simply put, is it illegal? Is it just wrong? Definitely sleazy? And I'm asking these questions based on harvesting thousands and thousands (and thousands) of chips from multiple properties, not just a couple here and there.

I have been harvesting since about October and after each trip to Vegas I wonder if it should be my last. Just because of the uncertainty. I'm fairly new to this forum, if there are any lawyers in here, or anyone with experience/ knowledge to share, please reach out.

I'm afraid of posting this, because I think I know the right answer. I just really don't want to have to get a real job

thanks in advance.

 

[zo121179]

I just really don't want to have to get a real job

Me too brother.

I've also been wondering about this. I know every casino I visited I grab a single for a souvenir and no one cared. Racks of chips though... I'd be afraid of getting the hammer.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Me too brother.

I've also been wondering about this. I know every casino I visited I grab a single for a souvenir and no one cared. Racks of chips though... I'd be afraid of getting the hammer.

It's been a topic before. If I remember correctly, it's not "against the law", but it's very frowned upon. They generally won't assist you, and if the wrong person finds out, they could trespass you. But people have found the rare cage person who will sell them a rack and don't honestly care.

Be respectful, tip them, and don't push it too hard.

 

[upNdown]

I'm not passing moral, ethical, or legal judgement. I don't care.
But if you were to get in touch with whomever is running each casino (not the cashier at the cage, not the dealers, not any of the lower level staff) and said "I'd like to buy x racks from you; I'm going to take them away, and never bring them back" you'd have your answer.
(Also, that answer probably varies by jurisdiction, because I think there are some laws in some jurisdictions which say the chips are always the property of the casino, and thus, in those jurisdictions, you probably have no legal right to sell them.)

 

[Perthmike]

No moral issues but I always think getting greedy and turning it into a business seems like the fastest way to ruin it for everyone and get it shut down. Or at the very least see an end to nice looking $1 chips at casinos.

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

Boston Encore and MGM Springfield will literally ask if you need an extra rack for the top chips and a sturdier bag

 

[casinochipper22]

It's been a topic before. If I remember correctly, it's not "against the law", but it's very frowned upon. They generally won't assist you, and if the wrong person finds out, they could trespass you. But people have found the rare cage person who will sell them a rack and don't honestly care.

Be respectful, tip them, and don't push it too hard.

thanks for the info. I always tip. But I do push it a little too hard sometimes. Maybe i'll ease up on it going forward. Do it more for sport than profit.

 

[Josh Kifer]

thanks for the info. I always tip. But I do push it a little too hard sometimes. Maybe i'll ease up on it going forward. Do it more for sport than profit.

The trick I've heard when people were attempting to harvest was to go in the day, to the cages not as popular. Try and find a cage staff member who's working alone and might not care (no manager behind them), give it a shot and tip well.

There have been story's of cage staff pulling out racks and helping them sort the good chips or pulling out brand new sealed racks. Story's can help. You can pull the "were getting married, this is where we met and want to give them to everyone attending the wedding"

But, again, there are risks. If security notices or a cage manager, you might not be welcome back.

 

[casinochipper22]

The trick I've heard when people were attempting to harvest was to go in the day, to the cages not as popular. Try and find a cage staff member who's working alone and might not care (no manager behind them), give it a shot and tip well.

There have been story's of cage staff pulling out racks and helping them sort the good chips or pulling out brand new sealed racks. Story's can help. You can pull the "were getting married, this is where we met and want to give them to everyone attending the wedding"

But, again, there are risks. If security notices or a cage manager, you might not be welcome back.

yeah. I've come up with dozens of stories. haha. Thats the fun of it. But I'm most concerned about a trespass or something along those lines.

 

[upNdown]

The trick I've heard when people were attempting to harvest was to go in the day, to the cages not as popular. Try and find a cage staff member who's working alone and might not care (no manager behind them), give it a shot and tip well.

There have been story's of cage staff pulling out racks and helping them sort the good chips or pulling out brand new sealed racks. Story's can help. You can pull the "were getting married, this is where we met and want to give them to everyone attending the wedding"

But, again, there are risks. If security notices or a cage manager, you might not be welcome back.

It seems like everything you've written suggests that these employees aren't supposed to sell you racks to harvest, but if you find the right one at the right time, you might get what you want. But I don't think that addresses his question. If an employee sells you something that they're not supposed to sell you, are you good morally, ethically, or legally?

 

[casinochipper22]

No moral issues but I always think getting greedy and turning it into a business seems like the fastest way to ruin it for everyone and get it shut down. Or at the very least see an end to nice looking $1 chips at casinos.

Is that the reason there doesn't seem to be anyone else harvesting big numbers on this forum? Or I'm sure there are, but just via PMs mostly? I don't feel like I can be the only one doing this for bigger quantities?

 

[casinochipper22]

It seems like everything you've written suggests that these employees aren't supposed to sell you racks to harvest, but if you find the right one at the right time, you might get what you want. But I don't think that addresses his question. If an employee sells you something that they're not supposed to sell you, are you good morally, ethically, or legally?

thats a whole other thing. Its not only me, but when I talk a rookie cashier into selling me racks of drop chips, which I've done a handful of times, on my way out the door I start feeling bad for the cashier. Like what if it comes back on them and they get in trouble. ugggg. I'm talking myself out of this side hustle with every post...

 

[Josh Kifer]

It seems like everything you've written suggests that these employees aren't supposed to sell you racks to harvest, but if you find the right one at the right time, you might get what you want. But I don't think that addresses his question. If an employee sells you something that they're not supposed to sell you, are you good morally, ethically, or legally?

Cage staff are to trade money for chips to have issued out.

Morally? I dont know the morality of the cage and staff members. We're all degens here, so I doubt our "moral compass" would stop us from keeping a chip we bought. Maybe some would refuse to do much more then a single or two, but that's there choice.

Ethically, yeah, I'd say that's bad and wouldn't do it if I was a employee. I'd guess it's against casino policy.... But policy does not dictate law. If I was a manager and a cage member started selling racks all willy nilly, I'd fire them. If they asked if they could trade out some barrels for a wedding and cleared it with management, I'd approve it. (Not a cage manager and currently unemployed)

Legally, unless there is a code in Nevada (or the states law about it), it's not illegal. I'd imagine if it was illegal it wouldn't be so common around here, but that's an assumption and I do not know Nevada law.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Is that the reason there doesn't seem to be anyone else harvesting big numbers on this forum? Or I'm sure there are, but just via PMs mostly? I don't feel like I can be the only one doing this for bigger quantities?

We have had a few do it seriously. But one stole a crapload of money and disappeared. So I think it's now more of a "visit and grab a rack or two for PCF" then a full time gig anymore.

 

[upNdown]

Is that the reason there doesn't seem to be anyone else harvesting big numbers on this forum? Or I'm sure there are, but just via PMs mostly? I don't feel like I can be the only one doing this for bigger quantities?

It's always seemed to me that it would be difficult to make enough money off a rack of chips to make it worth your time and expenses. But I suppose anything can be profitable with a high enough volume?

 

[Josh Kifer]

thats a whole other thing. Its not only me, but when I talk a rookie cashier into selling me racks of drop chips, which I've done a handful of times, on my way out the door I start feeling bad for the cashier. Like what if it comes back on them and they get in trouble. ugggg. I'm talking myself out of this side hustle with every post...

Not trying to sound cold, but being blunt on feelings. If you'd hate anyone to get in trouble in the pool, stay out of the pool.

 

[Josh Kifer]

It's always seemed to me that it would be difficult to make enough money off a rack of chips to make it worth your time and expenses. But I suppose anything can be profitable with a high enough volume?

Agree. With tipping and effort, plus losses from table harvesting, there arnt too many chips I think you could do well on. We know the good ones won't let racks out of the cage (Damn you Paris.... Damn you)

 

[casinochipper22]

Not trying to sound cold, but being blunt on feelings. If you'd hate anyone to get in trouble in the pool, stay out of the pool.

I'm asking for honest opinions here. thank you for the insight. the only time I've felt that I may have implicated a employee is with the drop chips out of Golden Nugget. The famous two dollar chips. But I went back a few weeks later, he was still there. So I talked him out of more. hahaha.

 

[davislane]

But one stole a crapload of money and disappeared

Is there a thread with more of this story?

 

[casinochipper22]

Agree. With tipping and effort, plus losses from table harvesting, there arnt too many chips I think you could do well on. We know the good ones won't let racks out of the cage (Damn you Paris.... Damn you)

absolutely. Its a whole different ballgame when you have to take them off table games. a lot more risk.

 

[Josh Kifer]

I'm asking for honest opinions here. thank you for the insight. the only time I've felt that I may have implicated a employee is with the drop chips out of Golden Nugget. The famous two dollar chips. But I went back a few weeks later, he was still there. So I talked him out of more. hahaha.

I'd have a hard time with that aspect of it, but table harvesting involves losses. I'd always just be super nice and never push harder then that. If I've found out one thing from my family, innocent chit chat can get you anywhere and anything.

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

Is there a thread with more of this story?

 

[Josh Kifer]

Is there a thread with more of this story?

Yeah, somewhere. He was a former vendor. Drumhaus? The name was something like that. I'm sure someone will pipe up and I'll be totally off on the name.

 

[Josh Kifer]

View attachment 738192

I said what should never be spoken..... Shit!

 

[upNdown]

Yeah, somewhere. He was a former vendor. Drumhaus? The name was something like that. I'm sure someone will pipe up and I'll be totally off on the name.

I remember buying a rack from him about a month before he disappeared. Lovely transaction. I got lucky. But no, I don't remember his name either.

 

[turboj623]

Looking for info, insight, some help with regards to chip harvesting. Simply put, is it illegal? Is it just wrong? Definitely sleazy? And I'm asking these questions based on harvesting thousands and thousands (and thousands) of chips from multiple properties, not just a couple here and there.

I have been harvesting since about October and after each trip to Vegas I wonder if it should be my last. Just because of the uncertainty. I'm fairly new to this forum, if there are any lawyers in here, or anyone with experience/ knowledge to share, please reach out.

I'm afraid of posting this, because I think I know the right answer. I just really don't want to have to get a real job

thanks in advance.

I want to note that what I'm about to say is based on information that is 15+ years old. So, rules might have changed over the years. I can't speak for other states, but I worked in the security department and eventually moved into SIU (Special Investigations Unit) at Harrah's Las Vegas in the mid-2000s.

Having said that, when I worked there, we internally didn't care if someone racked up their chips and went straight to their hotel room or took them home. There were no state laws that prevented it and Harrah's Entertainment (now Caesars Entertainment) had no rules in place to prohibit it. The transaction was already made and you were free to do whatever you wanted with the chips. The casino already had the money. You would actually be surprised how many people forgot or didn't cash in their chips.

I want to note that the casino didn't encourage cage employees to just sell chips to customers, but if someone asked they were allowed to use their own discretion. Most employees would just say no because they didn't want to hassle with it. That's probably why you get a vague response when they deny it. But many of the high rollers would always go to the cage and buy high denomination chips just to carry around with them in their pocket when they were gambling. It was better than carrying around cash, or they pulled a line of credit and were paid in chips instead of cash.

The only crucial chip issue we were worried about were counterfeits. But Paulson does a great job adding security features to the chips that helped us quickly identify fakes. The biggest problem we had while I was there was chips showing up from casinos that closed down due to Hurricane Katrina. Harrah's policy at the time allowed you to cash in chips at any of their casinos. So, if you gambled at the Paris, you could cash in your chips at Bally's. We had to put an alert out to all of the properties to deny chips from any of the casinos in the south. The casinos were abandoned and people were stealing chips from the tables. I even had to make a trip out to Louisana to help secure Harrah's New Orleans Casino. That was an interesting trip.

If none of the rules have changed, then I wouldn't worry about harvesting. I'm not sure if the same rules apply to MGM Properties or Station Casinos. But you can always ask. If the employee is cool, they will hook you up. And you should tip them well as a courtesy.

TLDR: Based on my previous experience as a casino employee in Vegas, it is not illegal to harvest chips.

 

[Kensco]

Once upon a time casinos made money every time a $1 chip walked out the door [in addition to the money that chip made while in circulation] because the replacement cost was less than a dollar each.

They probably feel different about it now, and if you are feeling funny about it buy a rack of fives to offset their "loss".

But always tip the employee that helps you well. With all the cameras on them, if they are okay with it it's probably not frowned upon too heavily.

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

I want to note that what I'm about to say is based on information that is 15+ years old. So, rules might have changed over the years. I can't speak for other states, but I worked in the security department and eventually moved into SIU (Special Investigations Unit) at Harrah's Las Vegas in the mid-2000s.

Having said that, when I worked there, we internally didn't care if someone racked up their chips and went straight to their hotel room or took them home. There were no state laws that prevented it and Harrah's Entertainment (now Caesars Entertainment) had no rules in place to prohibit it. The transaction was already made and you were free to do whatever you wanted with the chips. The casino already had the money. You would actually be surprised how many people forgot or didn't cash in their chips.

I want to note that the casino didn't encourage cage employees to just sell chips to customers, but if someone asked they were allowed to use their own discretion. Most employees would just say no because they didn't want to hassle with it. That's probably why you get a vague response when they deny it. But many of the high rollers would always go to the cage and buy high denomination chips just to carry around with them in their pocket when they were gambling. It was better than carrying around cash, or they pulled a line of credit and were paid in chips instead of cash.

The only crucial chip issue we were worried about were counterfeits. But Paulson does a great job adding security features to the chips that helped us quickly identify fakes. The biggest problem we had while I was there was chips showing home from casinos that closed down due to Hurricane Katrina. Harrah's policy at the time allowed you to cash in chips at any of their casinos. So, if you gambled at the Paris, you could cash in your chips at Bally's. We had to put an alert out to all of the properties to deny chips from any of the casinos in the south. The casinos were abandoned and people were stealing chips from the tables. I even had to make a trip out to Louisana to help secure Harrah's New Orleans Casino. That was an interesting trip.

If none of the rules have changed, then I would worry about harvesting. I'm not sure if the rules apply to MGM Properties or Station Casinos. But you can always ask. If the employee is cool, they will hook you up. And you should tip them well as a courtesy.

TLDR: Based on my previous experience as a casino employee in Vegas, it is not illegal to harvest chips.

Wow thanks for the insight! Any interesting stories from that job you can share?

 

[Josh Kifer]

I remember buying a rack from him about a month before he disappeared. Lovely transaction. I got lucky. But no, I don't remember his name either.

Yeah, he was around a while with minimal issues, then it just stopped and a ton got screwed. I never used him, as I am a cheap SOB.

That was then, I'm just as cheap and not REALLY can't afford it.

 

[turboj623]

Wow thanks for the insight! Any interesting stories from that job you can share?

I have a ton of crazy stories I could share, but they would all be novels.. Harrah's is middle of the strip. We got a ton of activity and every shift brought something different every day. At that time, the only casinos that had more issues than us were The Sahara and Hard Rock. If you really wanted to earn your stripes, you worked security at either of those casinos.