That ruling was ridiculous. It seemed completely inconsistent.
Would you allow this kind of bet? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Beakertwang
- Start date
That ruling was ridiculous. It seemed completely inconsistent.
The section on string betting also seems relevant:
This seems to introduce some ambiguity. Chips “released” are committed... But at the same time, you can’t string bet.
If you release chips with a delay between each (à la Teddy KGB?), it sure feels like a string bet to me. Does only the first chip/stack released count, or all of them in your outstretched hand? Seems to require a subjective judgement of intent, which is not ideal. (I try to consistently announce my raises and calls in my own play, even if it makes me less cool at the table.)
As far as moving chips forward... Seems to me that any move far enough forward that you have to extend your arm, or brings the chips more than a few inches forward (i.e., just rearranging your stack a little so you can cut out the right amount) becomes an angle if not all those chips wind up gettin bet.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
Pushing the chips sounds the same as release to me. (As in not in hand.).
The reason I don't like the betting line idea in particular is because I think it encourages all kinds of gimmickry that binds nothing so long as it happens behind the line.
I think grabbing 15 black chips and releasing 8 into the pot (say two stacks of four) is pretty clear. But pushing a stack and then putting chips in hand (as in the video I shared) seems to be an angle.
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JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
I thought about making mention of being slow doing this could constitute a string bet. I would agree with that being a possible interpretation.
Though iirc, Teddy verbalized in Rounders
.Overall, I agree with the notion that the rules enable players to act in silence, but players that verbalize are always protected.
ekricket
Royal Flush
This is one reason why I never “snap” anything in a game. In these situations I always ask the dealer how much the bet is before I take any action. I figure it’s on me to know what’s been done before I take my action. I don’t like making uninformed decisions or decisions based on assumptions.
Maybe it should be on the other player, but for me it’s like crossing the street- sure I may have the right of way but I still look and yield to oncoming cars.
Yep, learned that lesson that day. Haven't repeated it since, getting confirmation before making my action (whether it be fold, call, or raise). And I don't table my hand until instructed to do so by the dealer (assuming that he is correct).
Many casinos allow this style of betting and it is common in live play.
ekricket
Royal Flush
This works well in the US, but try the “English only at the table” rule in a foreign casino. They’ll laugh at you in whatever language they are speaking. Even when you ask “ how much is it” and they say “goobyamos, gobbly de la sissyquiceras”.
The language barrier generates many more problems indeed.
The policy in Greek casinos and most cardrooms is "only Greek and/or English allowed at the table".
I mostly use English terms, to sound exotic and conceal my noob ness as player under the strangeness of the middle aged gentleman who has apparently lived abroad
The policy in Greek casinos and most cardrooms is "only Greek and/or English allowed at the table".
I mostly use English terms, to sound exotic and conceal my noob ness as player under the strangeness of the middle aged gentleman who has apparently lived abroad
Though iirc, Teddy verbalized in Rounders
Sort of... My recollection (in at least one instance) is that it went something like:
IIIIeee... [splashes pot]
byet... [reaches for more chips, splashes it again]
the... [reaches]
pawt [splashes a third time]
OK, so my recollection isn’t perfect... But he does string bet here... twice:
I disagree with the ruling in the Cantu/Yosef video above for exactly the reasons the players told Jack Effel. What's to stop a player from shoving his chips all the way in the middle without releasing, waiting a few seconds for a reaction, then pulling them back? Allowing this to go unchecked turns the game into a pump-fake-fest. Best case, players get wise and don't look or move until Bozo McSlideEmAround is done and has legally acted, and it slows the game to a crawl.
I hate betting lines because I think they open the door to worse angles than a forward motion rule. I also think that significant forward motion should always be ruled a bet even when the player does not release the chips. If a player does this in my game, it's one of those occasions where I'm calling it a bet regardless of intent - because it's a clear attempt to angle.
And dammit Teddy, don't splash the pot.
I hate betting lines because I think they open the door to worse angles than a forward motion rule. I also think that significant forward motion should always be ruled a bet even when the player does not release the chips. If a player does this in my game, it's one of those occasions where I'm calling it a bet regardless of intent - because it's a clear attempt to angle.
And dammit Teddy, don't splash the pot.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
In my club, I will splash the pot whenever.....
Splash the pot, yyyes... String bet, nyet!
As stated before it is fairly common in Vegas (with older player usually), as long as the player doesn't go back to get more chips and turns into a string bet it is one of those accepted "move". Off course if you play at home, your home rules are what you want.
Yeah, sorry about the large derail there - back to the original question.
My local cardrooms use forward motion and no betting line, and players do this all the time - take a big stack forward in hand, drop a couple of chips, and pull the rest back. I have never seen it even questioned by other players.
My local cardrooms use forward motion and no betting line, and players do this all the time - take a big stack forward in hand, drop a couple of chips, and pull the rest back. I have never seen it even questioned by other players.
I never bet this way. I may have a stack of chips in my hand and drop, but only after announcing my betting amount first. I'm a very big proponent of announcing a bet (although I understand why some players do not announce their bets and I do not always announce it, either). Personally, I'm afraid of being clumsy and dropping too many chips (or having a dirty stack and not realizing it) or being accused of angle shooting. So, I don't do it.
Having said that, I have no problem with the way they are betting as long as it's a continuous motion. If they were hanging them out there, dropping a couple chips, looking at their opponent while they do it and trying to get a read, that's another story, but that's not what they are doing here. Maybe give them a little warning that it's OK, but others may not see it that way. My guess is, they've done it for years and will scoff at you, but...
Having said that, I have no problem with the way they are betting as long as it's a continuous motion. If they were hanging them out there, dropping a couple chips, looking at their opponent while they do it and trying to get a read, that's another story, but that's not what they are doing here. Maybe give them a little warning that it's OK, but others may not see it that way. My guess is, they've done it for years and will scoff at you, but...
I can’t imagine why anybody would do that. It seems very unnatural to me - if you want 4 chips, would you grab 4 chips off the top of your stack, or would you grab your whole stack and drop 4 chips off the bottom?
Seems to me the only motivation for that could be to misdirect with your stack.
Seems to me the only motivation for that could be to misdirect with your stack.
gopherblue
Straight Flush
Agreed. And not to mention the risk that you'll drop the wrong amount, or trickle them off in a string-bettish manner.
Darthhoodie
Flush
Maybe I'm missing something here but I feel like dropping chips from the bottom of your stack into the pot one at a time is a string bet, similar to me tossing chips into the pot one at a time. I fail to see the difference. Once the 1st chip hits the felt that should be the bet.
Although in a home game playing with people I know are not pulling any shenanigans, I would be more likely to allow the bet but discourage betting like that in the future for all the reasons listed above.
Also, stop splashing my chips like that I don't want any flea bites you bastard!
Although in a home game playing with people I know are not pulling any shenanigans, I would be more likely to allow the bet but discourage betting like that in the future for all the reasons listed above.
Also, stop splashing my chips like that I don't want any flea bites you bastard!
Darthhoodie
Flush
Watching Teddy KGB splash the pot makes me cringe each and every time. The chips Teddy, your wrecking the chips...
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derekdd23
Flush
Maybe I'm missing something here but I feel like dropping chips from the bottom of your stack into the pot one at a time is a string bet, similar to me tossing chips into the pot one at a time. I fail to see the difference. Once the 1st chip hits the felt that should be the bet.
Although in a home game playing with people I know are not pulling any shenanigans, I would be more likely to allow the bet but discourage betting like that in the future for all the reasons listed above.
Also, stop splashing my chips like that I don't want any flea bites you bastard!
The rule is that once you bring chips across the line you cannot go get more, but you can drop them off any way you choose until your hand(s) returns. If you try to go back that is when a string bet would be called.
That can’t be the rule.
You believe I could bring a stack of fives to the middle, drop six of them, look up at you for a reaction, drop another six, look up at you again, then pull the remainder back?
You think that would be a good bet?
Are there any written rules to support that?
Not in my rulebook.
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derekdd23
Flush
That is exactly the rule in nearly every Vegas poker room which is where i really learned how to play cash.
You can drop some off, but you can't do it any way you want. If you drop off a couple, drop off a couple more, wait, and drop off a couple more, you're angle-shooting. I've never seen anybody get by with that more than once. I'd have to see the "any way you want" rule written down somewhere before I believe that.
Which brings us back to my admittedly autistic mantra about compulsory binding verbal statements.
Speech separates humans from the rest of animals, by the way.
It's OK to use fingers, toes or claws to place the chips, as long as you explain what you 're doing, verbally.
Speech separates humans from the rest of animals, by the way.
It's OK to use fingers, toes or claws to place the chips, as long as you explain what you 're doing, verbally.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
I'm probably going to rule against using toes. Also, I'm probably only going to allow the use of claws if I happen to be hosting a game at the Xavier School for Gifted Youngsters.
Jokes apart, there's no substitute to speech among humans...
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