What's the best way to calculate the proper tournament add-on amount? (1 Viewer)

[nhong77]

I'm hosting a home game for the first time. 16 players with a $30 buy-in and $25,000 chip starting stack and unlimited rebuys for the first 2 hours. The blinds are starting at $25/$50 (500 BB). I'm just trying to figure out what is the best way to set the add-ons? Is there an optimal way for setting that? I was thinking $10 add on for $10,000 chips, but was wondering if anyone else would set it differently? Or should I set it higher, like $15 for 15,000 chips? Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated!

 

[RofoPoker]

How long are you planning this to run? Not sure what your blind progression is but assuming two tables starting at 500BB deep with unlimited re-entry for 2 hours already seems like you're going to have a lot of chips in play relative to the blinds for quite a while, so you're already looking at a pretty long tournament. Which, if that's what you're going for, great! Just not sure you'd need add-ons on top of that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of deep stack poker that allows some play before it turns into a shove fest, but I ditched add-ons in my game just because it wasn't really adding any value for the effort. One, everyone was adding on anyway, so it was easier just to up the initial buy-in and starting stack right from the jump (although again, you're already starting pretty deep at 500BB). Two, they also add on time. More time needed to track who's adding on, more chips to color-up, longer tournament duration. etc. But hey, YMMV.

Anyway, if you're going to do it I probably would stick to no more than an additional 10K for $10 since I think you already have plenty of chips in play. Just my thoughts, there are many more experienced TDs around here who maybe can give other perspectives.

 

[BPTDirector]

Any amount you choose multiplied by zero.

 

[upNdown]

I will never understand why people would have an add-on where the cost per chip was lower than the initial buy-in, unless you’re trying to encourage addons. But that’s probably because I hate addons.

 

[nhong77]

Thanks for all the comments; they are great points to consider. I noticed the short stacks usually go all-in during the last few minutes of the cutoff to either double up or rebuy, so I thought the benefit to the short stack might be a smaller add-on rather than choosing between entering the cutoff short stacked or rebuying. But agreed it might not be necessary, thanks!

 

[foreverdev]

I think your biggest concern is the length. I think with 500bb start, 2 hours rebuys, and an addon you might be looking at like a VERY long tournament unless maybe you're doing 10 minute levels or something. I do 100/200 with 25k starting stack, and BB ante (that means every hand, the big blind must ante equivalent to the big blind). This helps drive action preflop. Unlimited rebuy for 5 or 6 levels. We do the first 3 levels @ 20 minutes, then 18 minutes for a few levels, then 15 minutes. I usually have 9-10 players and the game lasts ~5 hours. That way, everyone gets a few good hours of play, and when people are a little more tired after 3-4 hours of play, things speed up. We got rid of add-ons because of the administration of the add-ons when we don't have a non-playing TD ( I am playing and being TD). If you're running it and playing it, I'd say keep it simple, minimize the friction of having to deal with BS, because as a host you will be answering everything from there's no TP left in the bathroom, to can I have a glass of water, all the way to on table 2 player X acted out of turn and player Z shoved now player Y is complaining to you about what should happen now, and youre at table 1 and look down JJ on the button facing a raise.

 

[nhong77]

Thanks for the comment, foreverdev. Does the below blind structure make sense (6pm start time). It's my first time setting up a tournament, and it's not until next weekend, so there's still time for me to change it. Would it make more sense to limit the Rebuys to 3 rebuys each rather than unlimited? Is 25,000 (500 BB) too big, or does something closer to 15,000 or 20,000 make more sense for 16-18 players, home game?

 

[Gojira777]

View attachment 1667386

Hi, if you don‘t mind, I‘d like to give my 2 cents about these blind levels. I have not been hosting for very long but I spend hours on hours researching on how to set up a good blind structure. Your structure seems like it was generated on some site. I would not like this structure because you have a lot of early levels that don’t matter much and then later the jumps go really big. I would try to keep it more simple. Try to stick to a 33% to 50% increase every level. Another thing is that you would have keep the T25 chip in play until level 9. After tha the T100 is only used 3 more levels, which I also find kind of odd.

This is what I do for T10k starting stacks, but I would probably skip the first two levels for T25k stacks.

25/50
25/75
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
*color up T25*
200/400
300/600
400/800
600/1200
800/1600
*color up T100*
1k/2k
1500/3k
2k/4k
*color up T500*
3k/6k
4k/8k
6k/12k
8k/16k
10k/20k

You can keep going like this with the 33-50% increases. Do short breaks every 1-2 hours if you have newer players!
With a structure like this you have some early game time, where people can get a feel for the game, and it gets you going eventually, but not super fast.
We play single table, 8 handed with 1 rebuy until 2 hours in and it lasts about 5 hours on average, which is exactly what I was aiming for. With 16 players and multiple rebuy it will probably last 7+ hours I can imagine.

 

[Gojira777]

Oh and regarding the add-on situation, we also started out with one but we quickly abandoned it because almost everyone was buying it anyway. We switched to bounty tournaments and stuck with it!

 

[nhong77]

Hi, if you don‘t mind, I‘d like to give my 2 cents about these blind levels. I have not been hosting for very long but I spend hours on hours researching on how to set up a good blind structure. Your structure seems like it was generated on some site. I would not like this structure because you have a lot of early levels that don’t matter much and then later the jumps go really big. I would try to keep it more simple. Try to stick to a 33% to 50% increase every level. Another thing is that you would have keep the T25 chip in play until level 9. After tha the T100 is only used 3 more levels, which I also find kind of odd.

This is what I do for T10k starting stacks, but I would probly skip the first two levels for T25k stacks.

25/50
25/75
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
*color up T25*
200/400
300/600
400/800
600/1200
800/1600
*color up T100*
1k/2k
1500/3k
2k/4k
*color up T500*
3k/6k
4k/8k
6k/12k
8k/16k
10k/20k

You can keep going like this with the 33-50% increases. Do short breaks every 1-2 hours if you have newer players!
With a structure like this you have some early game time, where people can get a feel for the game, and it gets you going eventually, but not super fast.
We play single table, 8 handed with 1 rebuy until 2 hours in and it lasts about 5 hours on average, which is exactly what I was aiming for. With 16 players and multiple rebuy it will probably last 7+ hours I can imagine.

Wow, thanks so much Gojira777! That's great feedback, and I'm definitely going to implement those changes for the blind structures. I might just drop it to $15k starting stack for now and so how it goes since 10K might go rather quickly for me.

 

[Gojira777]

Wow, thanks so much Gojira777! That's great feedback, and I'm definitely going to implement those changes for the blind structures. I might just drop it to $15k starting stack for now and so how it goes since 10K might go rather quickly for me.

I‘m happy to help!

 

[foreverdev]

I like @Gojira777 suggestion of structure for T25, and it's got a natural break built in (but not for you!) where you can colour up the 25s, and then later the 100s.

you're gonna have a lot notes for yourself to improve next time which is part of the fun. after a few tournies your game will be super streamlined and clear so players can really have a great frictionless time playing some cards. a good organized game just feels "easy and fun" for players, but its a good amount of work for the TD to get it to that point. I use PokerBoss app on an iPad which counts blinds down, and tracks rebuys and buyins and you can set payouts/blinds/breaks. this way i'm not answering the same question every 30 seconds! Good luck!

 

[Frogzilla]

I will never understand why people would have an add-on where the cost per chip was lower than the initial buy-in, unless you’re trying to encourage addons. But that’s probably because I hate addons.

Mathematically there should be a slight difference because of ICM, chips gained are less valuable than existing chips.

As described by OP T25,000 for $30 (833 per $) then T10,000 for $10 (1000 per $) feels very appropriate.

But it can get out of hand as it has around here to the point that you are severely punishing anyone who rebuys (and if your tournament allows late registration, it’s a massive boon to anyone who max late registration and doesn’t risk having to rebuy). An extreme example around here offers T30000 for $200 but the add on is T50000 for $50.

 

[upNdown]

Mathematically there should be a slight difference because of ICM, chips gained are less valuable than existing chips.

Oh sure, i get that. I just happen to think that getting extra chips should cost more and getting an influx of chips later in a tournament should cost more.
This is just griping though. It probably doesn’t matter. In my experience, a majority of people will buy every add-on available, a small percentage won’t ever pay for an addon, and a small percentage consider other factors before deciding to buy.

 

[Coyote]

Bring out the Gimp! @BGinGA

 

[RofoPoker]

This is what I do for T10k starting stacks, but I would probably skip the first two levels for T25k stacks.

25/50
25/75
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
*color up T25*
200/400
300/600
400/800
600/1200
800/1600
*color up T100*
1k/2k
1500/3k
2k/4k
*color up T500*
3k/6k
4k/8k
6k/12k
8k/16k
10k/20k

This is almost exactly what I was doing but made a slight tweak at my last poker night after reading @BGinGA's many posts on the subject.

The 800/1600 to 1000/2000 is only a 25% increase so out of your normal target window of 33-50% (same with 8k/16k to 10k/20k). I changed the 1k/2k to 1100/2200 and then colored up both T100 and T500 at the same time after the 1.5k/3k level.

I was admittedly resistant to the idea at first because my brain was looking at an 11/22 multiple as weird for whatever reason. Maybe a prime number thing, I don't know. And also, wasn't sure how coloring up two chips at the same time would go. But at the end of the day the 1100/2200 blinds weren't even noticed by the players as anything out of the ordinary, and the color up went fine. I plan to stick to that structure going forward as I think keeping the consistent blind progression is the best thing.

 

[Gojira777]

This is almost exactly what I was doing but made a slight tweak at my last poker night after reading @BGinGA's many posts on the subject.

The 800/1600 to 1000/2000 is only a 25% increase so out of your normal target window of 33-50% (same with 8k/16k to 10k/20k). I changed the 1k/2k to 1100/2200 and then colored up both T100 and T500 at the same time after the 1.5k/3k level.

I was admittedly resistant to the idea at first because my brain was looking at an 11/22 multiple as weird for whatever reason. Maybe a prime number thing, I don't know. And also, wasn't sure how coloring up two chips at the same time would go. But at the end of the day the 1100/2200 blinds weren't even noticed by the players as anything out of the ordinary, and the color up went fine. I plan to stick to that structure going forward as I think keeping the consistent blind progression is the best thing.

I‘ve been playing with this idea too! I think the double color up is really no problem since I use very few T500s anyway because you don‘t need them as much. I do starting stacks 12/12/3/7 + 1k on time bonus.
I always stuck to the 25% jump because it looks smoother then 11/22 on paper. But you say it wasn‘t even noticed really? I like the idea to combine the color ups.

 

[RofoPoker]

I always stuck to the 25% jump because it looks smoother then 11/22 on paper. But you say it wasn‘t even noticed really?

Nope. No one said a word. I don't think they even noticed the change, or if they did they didn't care.

They DID notice the double color up but like I said it went just fine so no one minded.