TRAIN WRECK (2 Viewers)

[ekricket]

I never knew this. Makes sense though. As others have brought up though, I imagine some kind of UV marking would be present on any house mold chips if there is no RHC or THC mold to mark the chips as Paulsons.

That being said, when GPI acquired BCC and it's assets (which I assume included all non hat and cane molds like the SGK, MGK, Web, Suits mold, and others that many BCC chips were made on), none of those have seen the light of day since. Do you think that they are just being buried because they don't fit the trademark requirements that lots of states have? Lots of casinos are using house molds if not the RHC or THC molds.

You don't have to answer this here (you can PM though if you'd like), but the BCC assets (molds, cups, etc) seem like a no brainer to be able to either use elsewhere (the home market) or sell off to CPC or elsewhere for more cash. Are they really concerned about the competition if they have a relative monopoly on the casino industry? I can't imagine too many casinos are using CPC or ceramics from elsewhere to manufacture their chips. Sunfly is also around, sure, but not enough to be a threat.

FWIW, I was part of a small group last year that contacted someone within GPI that inquired about potentially using the old BCC molds to manufacture some new fantasy chip lines to sell to the home market using the Paulson colors and materials to make the chips. It was mentioned in passing by the contact to some of the GPI higher ups and was shut down rather quickly. It's just not a profitable enough venture to go back into the home market to them. We tried to get a sense of a number of chips that may make them reconsider and didn't get an answer. It never hurts to send another inquiry, but I feel like the answer this year, as well as the next, and in the foreseeable future, will be the same.

This year changed a lot of things and how people think about their business. Who knows what possible in this new era.
If you would have asked someone to make you a car 100 years ago they would have thought you were an idiot from another village.

 

[BonScot]

If you would have asked someone to make you a car 100 years ago they would have thought you were an idiot from another village.

They were building these in Manchester a hundred years ago

I’m not sure what point you were making but I’ve just spent the last half an hour looking at cars from the 1920s. Absolute things of beauty. Even had electric cars back then!!!

 

[BGinGA]

I never knew this. Makes sense though. As others have brought up though, I imagine some kind of UV marking would be present on any house mold chips if there is no RHC or THC mold to mark the chips as Paulsons.

Microdots are also used in some cases. There may be an exemption for low value cash checks.

That being said, when GPI acquired BCC and it's assets (which I assume included all non hat and cane molds like the SGK, MGK, Web, Suits mold, and others that many BCC chips were made on), none of those have seen the light of day since. Do you think that they are just being buried because they don't fit the trademark requirements that lots of states have? Lots of casinos are using house molds if not the RHC or THC molds.

GPI offers several brands of casino currency and no-value chips to their customers, depending on location. This includes B&G, Bud Jones, Paulson, Gemaco, and the Blue Chip line, which they market as a lower-cost option for low-value cash checks ($2.50 and smaller) and no-value chips.

The Blue Chip products are produced on the renamed Flower mold (previously called BCC's casino-only Sun mold), with a limited set of spot patterns, only 10 unique color choices, and either hot-stamped or with 1" inlays. Pricing is typically about 20% less than a comparable Paulson chip.

Although only offered to casino customers, I know of at least two private non-casino ventures to obtain BC chips from GPI, one of which was successful.

 

[JMC9389]

Microdots are also used in some cases. There may be an exemption for low value cash checks.


GPI offers several brands of casino currency and no-value chips to their customers, depending on location. This includes B&G, Bud Jones, Paulson, Gemaco, and the Blue Chip line, which they market as a lower-cost option for low-value cash checks ($2.50 and smaller) and no-value chips.

The Blue Chip products are produced on the renamed Flower mold (previously called BCC's casino-only Sun mold), with a limited set of spot patterns, only 10 unique color choices, and either hot-stamped or with 1" inlays. Pricing is typically about 20% less than a comparable Paulson chip.

Although only offered to casino customers, I know of at least two private non-casino ventures to obtain BC chips from GPI, one of which was successful.

Was this also on the flower (sun) mold? I remember it being mentioned that they still make chips on that mold as part of a budget line.

Would love to hear details on the bolded via PM if you don't feel comfortable sharing here...

 

[ekricket]

They were building these in Manchester a hundred years ago

View attachment 616267
I’m not sure what point you were making but I’ve just spent the last half an hour looking at cars from the 1920s. Absolute things of beauty. Even had electric cars back then!!!

Just that the bigger the village the more room for multiple idiots.
Yeah they were into living it up inthe 20’s. Style was more important than function sometimes. Nowadays I can’t tell an Explorer from an Audi from a Porsche. They all look like Azteks ironically nowadays.

 

[BonScot]

Just that the bigger the village the more room for multiple idiots.
Yeah they were into living it up inthe 20’s. Style was more important than function sometimes. Nowadays I can’t tell an Explorer from an Audi from a Porsche. They all look like Azteks ironically nowadays.

I had to go and Google what en Explorer and an Aztec looked like. Wish I hadn’t

 

[ekricket]

Here’s some related reading

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_Crush

 

[aggie]

I'm new here, and have very little to add other than:

1. I've learned to trust forum veterans until clearly proven otherwise, and
2. I'm "in" for 10k chips in case they are.

 

[RichMahogany]

I’d be pretty happy if BCC chip formula, colors, and molds became available again.

A big plus if the new iteration isn’t run by anyone with the last names of Endy or Ott.

 

[JMC9389]

I’d be pretty happy if BCC chip formula, colors, and molds became available again.

A big plus if the new iteration isn’t run by anyone with the last names of Endy or Ott.

I didn't even ask for much. To my knowledge, there have been zero new chips on the old BCC molds except for the Sun mold since BCC was bought out. If GPI were to make some fantasy offerings on the MGK and Web mold available to the home market with their quality control and color palate, I'd be a very happy camper.

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

Cigar & snifter please

 

[RichMahogany]

I didn't even ask for much. To my knowledge, there have been zero new chips on the old BCC molds except for the Sun mold since BCC was bought out. If GPI were to make some fantasy offerings on the MGK and Web mold available to the home market with their quality control and color palate, I'd be a very happy camper.

As @BGinGA mentioned, there was one guy/company from France I believe it was. Had some very overpriced sets for sale briefly, no idea what happened to him or the chips.

Fantasy/home market BCCs would be fantastic but I was thinking more along the lines of custom sets

 

[CrazyEddie]

That being said, when GPI acquired BCC and it's assets (which I assume included all non hat and cane molds like the SGK, MGK, Web, Suits mold, and others that many BCC chips were made on), none of those have seen the light of day since. Do you think that they are just being buried because they don't fit the trademark requirements that lots of states have? Lots of casinos are using house molds if not the RHC or THC molds.

My completely uninformed guess is that there's no demand by casinos for a wide variety of molds, and no reason for GPI to try to market them, thus they simply don't offer them in order to keep their product mix streamlined. One set of similar molds for the high-end, and a different mold for the low end in order to benefit from price discrimination; anything else just gets in the way.

I bet that casinos either don't care what the molds are, or, if they do care, then they'll want to spring for their own house mold rather than use something that's ever been used by anyone else for any reason. Casinos aren't chippers.

Also, some (most?) of the BCC molds were only used and stored by BCC, and in theory they remain the property of the firms that commissioned them. GPI isn't going to market them to their casino customers even if they thought the casinos would be interested, and it seems that the owners of the molds aren't interested in making chips with them even if GPI were willing to sell chips to non-casino customers again (which they aren't).

If someone could persuade the owners of the molds to retrieve them from GPI and allow someone else to make chips with them... who would that be? It probably wouldn't be CPC, because the Paulson-BCC molds aren't compatible with the Burt-ASM-CPC equipment and materials and processes. [*]

So Web and Suits and MGK all sit on the bench, forever.

[*] Although it seems like there might be some overlap and/or conversion possibility? Web mold chips were originally made by Burt, but then were made by Paulson, and then BCC. So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

FWIW, I was part of a small group last year that contacted someone within GPI that inquired about potentially using the old BCC molds to manufacture some new fantasy chip lines to sell to the home market using the Paulson colors and materials to make the chips. It was mentioned in passing by the contact to some of the GPI higher ups and was shut down rather quickly. It's just not a profitable enough venture to go back into the home market to them. We tried to get a sense of a number of chips that may make them reconsider and didn't get an answer. It never hurts to send another inquiry, but I feel like the answer this year, as well as the next, and in the foreseeable future, will be the same.

I think it's awesome that a group of you gave it a shot, and very sad it got shot down. Based on what several others who have been involved in such attempts (successful and not) have said, it really seems like it's not a question of money or order size, but simply that GPI really, really, honest-to-god-we-mean-it just plain doesn't want to sell chips to people that aren't actually running a casino. They got out of the home market and they're staying out.

But you never know.

So keep on trying, everyone! Give it your best shot.

 

[CrazyEddie]

As @BGinGA mentioned, there was one guy/company from France I believe it was. Had some very overpriced sets for sale briefly, no idea what happened to him or the chips.

What was he selling? Very curious to know more about this. Got any pointers, or search terms I could use?

 

[JMC9389]

As @BGinGA mentioned, there was one guy/company from France I believe it was. Had some very overpriced sets for sale briefly, no idea what happened to him or the chips.

Fantasy/home market BCCs would be fantastic but I was thinking more along the lines of custom sets

Like I said, I don't want to be greedy

Customs would be a pretty significant ask from the get go. I think from GPI's point of view, I would think that they would want to see how a single stock design would do before pondering the proposition further.

 

[Lil Tuna]

Just that the bigger the village the more room for multiple idiots.
Yeah they were into living it up inthe 20’s. Style was more important than function sometimes. Nowadays I can’t tell an Explorer from an Audi from a Porsche. They all look like Azteks ironically nowadays.

 

[RichMahogany]

What was he selling? Very curious to know more about this. Got any pointers, or search terms I could use?

Can’t help with search terms, I don’t recall much.

Whomever it was had marketed them as high end, one of a kind, luxury sets or some such nonsense. Came with their own wooden case. Priced somewhere around $6-$7/chip(possibly more) IIRC, and I probably don’t lol.

 

[JMC9389]

My completely uninformed guess is that there's no demand by casinos for a wide variety of molds, and no reason for GPI to try to market them, thus they simply don't offer them in order to keep their product mix streamlined. One set of similar molds for the high-end, and a different mold for the low end in order to benefit from price discrimination; anything else just gets in the way.

I bet that casinos either don't care what the molds are, or, if they do care, then they'll want to spring for their own house mold rather than use something that's ever been used by anyone else for any reason. Casinos aren't chippers.

Also, some (most?) of the BCC molds were only used and stored by BCC, and in theory they remain the property of the firms that commissioned them. GPI isn't going to market them to their casino customers even if they thought the casinos would be interested, and it seems that the owners of the molds aren't interested in making chips with them even if GPI were willing to sell chips to non-casino customers again (which they aren't).

If someone could persuade the owners of the molds to retrieve them from GPI and allow someone else to make chips with them... who would that be? It probably wouldn't be CPC, because the Paulson-BCC molds aren't compatible with the Burt-ASM-CPC equipment and materials and processes. [*]

So Web and Suits and MGK all sit on the bench, forever.

[*] Although it seems like there might be some overlap and/or conversion possibility? Web mold chips were originally made by Burt, but then were made by Paulson, and then BCC. So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



I think it's awesome that a group of you gave it a shot, and very sad it got shot down. Based on what several others who have been involved in such attempts (successful and not) have said, it really seems like it's not a question of money or order size, but simply that GPI really, really, honest-to-god-we-mean-it just plain doesn't want to sell chips to people that aren't actually running a casino. They got out of the home market and they're staying out.

But you never know.

So keep on trying, everyone! Give it your best shot.

I'm going to talk to the person with the contact later this year and see if we can give it another whirl later this year. As @ekricket mentioned, a year ago was a year ago. As the pandemic rages, and casinos turn less and less of a profit, unless they buy all new chips instead of disinfecting chips continually, I would wager that GPI has been hurting quite a bit over the course of the past several months. Never know unless you ask.

I wonder who owns the MGK, Cigar and Snifter, etc molds now. Someone more in the know would probably understand better than me. Good point regarding the equipment compatability between CPC/ASM and the old BCC molds.

 

[RichMahogany]

@CrazyEddie found a pic

 

[RichMahogany]

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/colombanis-1-year-event.33107/

 

[ekricket]

I'm going to talk to the person with the contact later this year and see if we can give it another whirl later this year. As @ekricket mentioned, a year ago was a year ago. As the pandemic rages, and casinos turn less and less of a profit, unless they buy all new chips instead of disinfecting chips continually, I would wager that GPI has been hurting quite a bit over the course of the past several months. Never know unless you ask.

I wonder who owns the MGK, Cigar and Snifter, etc molds now. Someone more in the know would probably understand better than me. Good point regarding the equipment compatability between CPC/ASM and the old BCC molds.

The most economical thing for them to do is ditch chips entirely probably. Just run everything from your card, one less point of contact to worry about. Plus people take them

 

[JMC9389]

The most economical thing for them to do is ditch chips entirely probably. Just run everything from your card, one less point of contact to worry about. Plus people take them

It would not at all surprise me to see this happen within the next 20 years. God forbid if there is another pandemic in our lifetime, I think that may be it for casinos as we know it. Everything will be online and electronic. It may sound melodramatic but I really don't think a lot of casinos are going to survive this pandemic outside of the properties owned by the industry giants (Wynn, MGM, Caesars, etc). Jim is going to be a very busy guy in the next couple of years with all of the casinos that are going to close or rebrand, I think.

 

[viet rounder]

Maybe the best shot is to target the BCC molds and colour pallet. Honestly, I can’t tell the difference between the two but it probably has a higher success rate going that route

 

[raynmanas]

I had to go and Google what en Explorer and an Aztec looked like. Wish I hadn’t

here's a man who has not watched breaking bad - you should get on that!

 

[BonScot]

here's a man who has not watched breaking bad - you should get on that!

I’ve watched it. Just not retained anything about it. It’s a documentary about guys who make crackers isn’t it?

 

[CrazyEddie]

I wonder who owns the MGK, Cigar and Snifter, etc molds now.

Some very cursory searching on PCF suggests the best answers are "this is not publicly known" and "there's some confusion around that" and "the people who know probably don't care any more".

 

[CrazyEddie]

It’s a documentary about guys who make crackers isn’t it?

You're thinking of Baking Bread.

 

[Coyote]

I’ve watched it. Just not retained anything about it. It’s a documentary about guys who make crackers isn’t it?

Irrelevant, but this is anyway a derailed tread:
HAPPY NAME DAY TONY!
(St Anthony 's Day today, in the Orthodox Church's calendar).

 

[RichMahogany]

Some very cursory searching on PCF suggests the best answers are "this is not publicly known" and "there's some confusion around that" and "the people who know probably don't care any more".

Must’ve been very, very cursory as this is not correct. AFAWK, GPI/Angel has them all as they were included in the GPI purchase of BCC.

As to who designed and owned the molds previously, that’s easily findable too.

 

[BonScot]

You're thinking of Baking Bread.

A guy called Malted White, who goes by the name “Battenberg”