Tournament Hand - Early Stages (2 Viewers)

grebe

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wow, I'm an idiot. I thought UTG has the A9 this whole time. UTG played this hand terribly lol. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

that is also why i thought button should have raised flop, to see if his shitty 64 flush was already good.

my bad!
That's hilarious!
 

ekricket

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I can see why some of you guys hate tournaments. No way would I have put any more chips of consequence in that pot against multiple opponents with that flop in a tournament.
Not that I’m superior or anything, it’s just that I’ve played pocket jacks before and life and reality dictate that you are destined to get your ass handed to you here. More times than you can stomach. No matter what any form of math says, no matter what a pro would have done, if you haven’t smashed it on the flop you are toast. You can make feeler bets or raises but all it’s going to tell you is you don’t know where you are relative to anyone’s hand strength anymore.
I’m just laughing that anybody is arguing about how somebody played pocket jacks. Like it’s something unusual, lol and now it’s been solved.
 

upNdown

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I don't play with solvers, but I understand the general basics of GTO. I don't think there is anything GTO-style going on here though.

The problem with the strategy of playing 64s as a limp UTG is that you are inviting the world to come along and not considering the concept of reverse implied odds....which means, when you hit your monster and are not good because somebody else hit the bigger monster. This hand is a perfect example of that because you catch your flush, but the button caught the nuts. Also, say we flop trips...we have to be good, right? Unless button limped behind with A6 and we are out kicked. Nah, this hand out of position is an EASY fold.
I remember some pro talking about this exact issue. That people think limping small suited connectors into a multi multi-way pot is good because if you hit it, you’re golden. But the truth is that when you do hit it 5-handed or whatever, you’re actually probably screwed.
 

Senzrock

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I can see why some of you guys hate tournaments. No way would I have put any more chips of consequence in that pot against multiple opponents with that flop in a tournament.
Not that I’m superior or anything, it’s just that I’ve played pocket jacks before and life and reality dictate that you are destined to get your ass handed to you here. More times than you can stomach. No matter what any form of math says, no matter what a pro would have done, if you haven’t smashed it on the flop you are toast. You can make feeler bets or raises but all it’s going to tell you is you don’t know where you are relative to anyone’s hand strength anymore.
I’m just laughing that anybody is arguing about how somebody played pocket jacks. Like it’s something unusual, lol and now it’s been solved.
But (serious question) - are you saying that flopping top set is not "smashing the flop"?
 

ekricket

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But (serious question) - are you saying that flopping top set is not "smashing the flop"?
You connected, but it’s still wide open for a multitude of hands that beat you. So while it’s a good connect, it’s not a smash. It’s a get-you-in-trouble flop.
 

jmc999

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That was my argument to him as well. UTG is never triple barreling into two players without having flush. And button, given that top set is locked up, is never calling through without at least the naked :as:. I think you're beat here by one or both about 90%+ of the time.
I agree with you here. UTG was probably pondering if he had to call if one of his opponents shoved, decided the answer was "yes" and put the money in himself.

River is a fold for Hero, but a very hard one to make in the moment. I don't think he should have played his hand more aggressively. The pot was multi-way and two other players have showed continued interest. He's never getting a flush to fold, and what is he really trying to get paid by? Worse sets, that are already making big bets at the pot?

As for the button, there are only 6 outs that will kill his action with the nut flush. I suppose you could argue for a turn raise all-in to make it look like a semi-bluff. The pot is enormous and each player has over 1/2 their stacks already in the pot -- it's not like JJ or KK/QQ w/ a spade can fold right?
 
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