String betting - the rule that's always invoked for the wrong reason (2 Viewers)

[upNdown]

Anybody else have a problem with the fact that string betting is almost always called just so people can see a cheap flop (or a cheap card) not because they think the guy was actually angling?
At my .25/.50 game last week, late in the night, somebody opened to $2, got 3 callers, so I made it $12. But I was more than half drunk and did it sloppily throwing out two $1s with one hand and two $5s with the other and apparently not quite at the same time. (I later checked with another player and he said yeah it was noticeable - for the game we were playing, I thought it was fine, but if you were at Foxwoods or something, they would have called it a string bet.)
Guy next to me was like what the fuck was that, that’s an illegal bet. And I said bullshit, I just used two hands at the same time. I asked the next player and he said yeah he also thought it was a string bet. So I immediately pulled back my raise and just flatted along with everybody else and we all got to see the flop for two bucks.

I know we have rules that we all have to follow, so okay fine. But does it annoy anybody else that this is how that rule is always called? I promise you, nobody at that table thought I was angling. If one hand came out after the the other it was less than half a second difference. Nobody at that table though thought I was trying to get a reaction or do something unfair - THEY ALL JUST WANTED TO SEE THE FLOP FOR CHEAP and so they busted me on a technicality.
And so yeah, I’m just whining about it. But that’s pretty much exactly how I’ve seen the rule invoked everytime, everywhere I’ve seen it invoked.
Does anybody else feel the same way? It’s not that it’s a bullshit rule, but it’s always invoked for bullshit reasons.
Maybe this should be in the bullshit thread.

 

[detroitdad]

Raise better?

Seriously, I'm a fan of keeping your standard procedures consistent. If guys throw out a wrong bet and they're allowed to pull it back because it was a mistake fine, keep it consistent.

 

[buffalojim]

It's annoying, but I've called it on my "players" (I use that term loosely) many times because I'm just trying to make them better players. I think it's fair to call it if it is what it is, a string bet. You start letting shit slide and people might try to push to see what else they might be able to get away with. I realize no malice malice was intended.

 

[Jeevansluck]

For this reason…

I ALWAYS make a verbal bet. Always. I feel like if you have said it, your hands can do whatever

 

[Moxie Mike]

Anybody else have a problem with the fact that string betting is almost always called just so people can see a cheap flop (or a cheap card) not because they think the guy was actually angling?

No... most players will do whatever they can within the rules of the game to avoid paying a raise. Poker is a game of found advantages... as long as people aren't cheating I'm all for whatever edges can be gained.

But I was more than half drunk and did it sloppily throwing out two $1s with one hand and two $5s with the other and apparently not quite at the same time. (I later checked with another player and he said yeah it was noticeable - for the game we were playing, I thought it was fine, but if you were at Foxwoods or something, they would have called it a string bet.)

That's on you Bro. Verbalize your bets and you'll never have an issue.

And so yeah, I’m just whining about it. But that’s pretty much exactly how I’ve seen the rule invoked everytime, everywhere I’ve seen it invoked.
Does anybody else feel the same way? It’s not that it’s a bullshit rule, but it’s always invoked for bullshit reasons.

There are other rules that when enforced give a player an edge. Take the 'one chip' rule - ever see a guy fling a single chip in intending to raise? Nope - that's a call.

 

[ovo]

The reason I like to call it out, is just to get the players ready for a casino game. Doing it the right way gets you ready for the big show, but if we have a core group of regulars, we probably just let it slide, unless I want to see the cards for cheap

 

[raynmanas]

i remember this hand. in my opinion, the string bet call wasn't fully in earnest and you could have argued your way to letting it stand. you gave in quickly. i would have voted with you. i think you were being needled a bit too, to call you out on a technicality.

*edit* i should have read your second paragraph better, you're basically saying what i'm saying. did i see that flop? i don't recall that part.

 

[upNdown]

No... most players will do whatever they can within the rules of the game to avoid paying a raise. Poker is a game is found advantages... as long as people aren't cheating I'm all for whatever edges can be gained.

Yeah that’s fair. And like I said originally, I’m just whining here. But using a rule to gain an advantage is almost the definition of angling. All that’s lacking is the word “unfair.”
Yeah I guess I made a technically flawed bet, so calling me out on it isn’t technically unfair. But I still say it’s bullshit.

 

[raynmanas]

I'm a fan of keeping your standard procedures consistent.

I was more than half drunk

this is the host having a good time, he deserves some leeway when his intent was crystal clear. it was a nitpicky callout just to bust his balls, and he got a second. but "rule of fun" should be in effect as well.

 

[upNdown]

i remember this hand. in my opinion, the string bet call wasn't fully in earnest and you could have argued your way to letting it stand. you gave in quickly. i would have voted with you. i think you were being needled a bit too, to call you out on a technicality.

*edit* i should have read your second paragraph better, you're basically saying what i'm saying. did i see that flop? i don't recall that part.

thanks. Yeah I think Mike might have taken advantage of his gracious host there a bit but whatever, I’m not getting upset about it, just seeing if other people have noticed - like @Moxie Mike said, most players will do whatever to avoid a raise.

And yeah, you saw the flop. It was low dry garbage. I bet the pot, Mike called, I think you and everybody else folded. I bet the brick turn and he finally gave up.

 

[raynmanas]

And yeah, you saw the flop

well then, it was definitely a string bet.

 

[mike32]

I always tell everyone it's easy, just declare "raise". Then you can mess around all you want and throw out chips however you please.

I also agree the 99% of the time string bets in home games are not angle shoots, they are simply poor form.

 

[buzzmonkey]

I get more annoyed when I raise correctly by saying it and then throwing a chip out, and then get asked, "Did you say raise!" Yes asshole I said raise loud enough that they could hear me at the next table. Stop talking to your neighbor and pay attention to the action during the hand!

 

[jpietrella]

WHERE'S THE RULE BOOK

 

[Quicksilver-75]

Yup. I have stated so many times, and often to our longest serving members, "announce your bet or just state raise, then think about it and put it in."

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

You keep using the word 'always'. I do not think that word means what you think it means!

 

[upNdown]

You keep using the word 'always'. I do not think that word means what you think it means!

I might not be the only contrarian around here.
I don’t know how many hands of live poker I’ve played - maybe a couple hundred thousand. I think I’ve seen that angle attempted once, maybe twice?
You got me!

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I might not be the only contrarian around here.
I don’t know how many hands of live poker I’ve played - maybe a couple hundred thousand. I think I’ve seen that angle attempted once, maybe twice?
You got me!

You're 100% not the only one, you're just the most prolific!

Dont know what to tell you, I've seen it several times. Fresh in my mind. If someone calls me on a rule I break at my own game, good, whatever, Ill do the same to them.
Post in thread 'Banned Players' https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/banned-players.105629/post-2181012

 

[upNdown]

You're 100% not the only one, you're just the most prolific!

Dont know what to tell you, I've seen it several times. Fresh in my mind. If someone calls me on a rule I break at my own game, good, whatever, Ill do the same to them.
Post in thread 'Banned Players' https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/banned-players.105629/post-2181012

Fair. I guess it probably doesn’t happen at casinos much, because people know they’re not getting away with that shit there. So if it’s a mostly home game thing, I’ve been lucky in that I can’t remember the last time I played in a home game with an asshole.

 

[BPTDirector]

It has been called at my home game many times on the same idiot. It’s a rule and if you just voice your intention before betting all is solved. Also called the one chip call rule last weekend. Are we assholes for calling it? As you know without rules we would be reduced to animals…….

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Fair. I guess it probably doesn’t happen at casinos much, because people know they’re not getting away with that shit there. So if it’s a mostly home game thing, I’ve been lucky in that I can’t remember the last time I played in a home game with an asshole.

I thought you said you ran your own game?

Kidding! Yup, friend of a friend, I assure you he's done with us.

 

[upNdown]

Also called the one chip call rule last weekend. Are we assholes for calling it? As you know without rules we would be reduced to animals…….

It rarely happens at my game, but when it does, I’ll usually say immediately “what do you mean to do there?” And if he says raise, that’s cool with me.
It’s not perfect. If my players don’t like something that’s happening, they’ll speak up and I’ll listen to them. And that’s totally not perfect either. But I’m just more comfortable being imperfectly comfortable than being 100% rigid with rules. Yes, that will bite me in the ass eventually. I get it. But I guess I’d rather risk that, than be a rigid rules dick.

I’ve watched this enforcing perfect rules at home games debate for the entire time I’ve been on PCF. And I’ll acknowledge that best practices are to run your game exactly like you would if you were floor at a casino. I’m just never quite there. It’s a home game. We play for quarters. I’m not here to “train” anybody for the casinos. If you don’t like it, don’t come back?

 

[jpietrella]

I’ve been lucky in that I can’t remember the last time I played in a home game with an asshole.

I was just there last Friday.

 

[kirchhausen]

Anybody else have a problem with the fact that string betting is almost always called just so people can see a cheap flop (or a cheap card) not because they think the guy was actually angling?
At my .25/.50 game last week, late in the night, somebody opened to $2, got 3 callers, so I made it $12. But I was more than half drunk and did it sloppily throwing out two $1s with one hand and two $5s with the other and apparently not quite at the same time. (I later checked with another player and he said yeah it was noticeable - for the game we were playing, I thought it was fine, but if you were at Foxwoods or something, they would have called it a string bet.)
Guy next to me was like what the fuck was that, that’s an illegal bet. And I said bullshit, I just used two hands at the same time. I asked the next player and he said yeah he also thought it was a string bet. So I immediately pulled back my raise and just flatted along with everybody else and we all got to see the flop for two bucks.

I know we have rules that we all have to follow, so okay fine. But does it annoy anybody else that this is how that rule is always called? I promise you, nobody at that table thought I was angling. If one hand came out after the the other it was less than half a second difference. Nobody at that table though thought I was trying to get a reaction or do something unfair - THEY ALL JUST WANTED TO SEE THE FLOP FOR CHEAP and so they busted me on a technicality.
And so yeah, I’m just whining about it. But that’s pretty much exactly how I’ve seen the rule invoked everytime, everywhere I’ve seen it invoked.
Does anybody else feel the same way? It’s not that it’s a bullshit rule, but it’s always invoked for bullshit reasons.
Maybe this should be in the bullshit thread.

I believe that you had pure intentions, but just because you do doesn't mean the next player who does the same bet would. How can you call out the anglers if you do not enforce the rules consistently? I know it sucks in this one hand, but it is better for the game if string betting is called any time.

that said, I suppose it is game dependent. If you are playing in the same home game with the same people all of the time, hopefully no one in that game would try an angle.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Raise better?

Seriously, I'm a fan of keeping your standard procedures consistent. If guys throw out a wrong bet and they're allowed to pull it back because it was a mistake fine, keep it consistent.

This - consistency is key.

I enforce no string betting when I host, and my players know it and follow the rule. If your game allows correction/clarification, that's fine too. Just do it consistently and be sure everyone understands the rule.

 

[ekricket]

Usually the players I play with aren’t crafty enough for angle shooting. Usually it’s just stupidity. Most of the time they can’t keep track of who the action is on, so I’m not too worried about them having complex poker strategies. The one chip thing is mostly laziness, but we do have an older player who still will throw one chip out without a word meaning to raise, but they get called out on it every time.
Same as the showing two cards to win, some of our players are worried that after 6-7 years of regular play people might start to get an idea on the range of cards they play if they show both, so they just try to show one and slide their cards in.

It’s pure hell playing with a table of Maverick wannabes that learned poker watching westerns on tv.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I always tell everyone it's easy, just declare "raise". Then you can mess around all you want and throw out chips however you please.

Not entirely true.

You can put out your call in one motion, then your raise in another. More than that is still a string bet, unless you've verbally declared the amount ("raise to 12").

 

[doublebooyah85]

Yeah that’s fair. And like I said originally, I’m just whining here. But using a rule to gain an advantage is almost the definition of angling. All that’s lacking is the word “unfair.”
Yeah I guess I made a technically flawed bet, so calling me out on it isn’t technically unfair. But I still say it’s bullshit.

But using a rule to gain an advantage is almost the definition of angling.

Hmm yes but not in this case. String betting is such a common rule that everyone holds others to and as soon as it happens it’s a simple teaching moment and shouldn’t happen again? It can be annoying w new players but after one night of cards they should have it figured out. However, if it’s literally their first time at the home game I would allow their mistake once and correct from there on.

 

[Jeff]

Tru dat:

I also agree the 99% of the time string bets in home games are not angle shoots, they are simply poor form.

But going to the meaning of @upNdown 's post...you're right that people usually only invoke rules when they've a self interested motive. Which is why I respect hosts/players that always enforce these rules all the time, every time, consistently.

 

[upNdown]

it’s a simple teaching moment

Oh I learned. I think I’m going to construct a raise sled to use in the next game. I’ll assemble my raises on the sideline, load them into the sled, then slide the whole thing in together so there can be no doubt of my intentions.