Starting chip distribution - I don't like making change! (1 Viewer)

[Jake14mw]

Hi all,

We have a regular game where we typically have between 5-9 people. I have a 1000 chip set, 5 - 300, 25 - 300, 100-200, 500-200. We start with 2000 chips with 10/20 blinds.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of starting with more lower chips? My thought is, I don't like making change in the early rounds. Also, since I have plenty of chips for under 10 people, why not use them? Most guys in our game would make stacks of say 10x5s, 14x25s, 11x100s, 1x500. My thought is, give everybody bigger stacks! My suggestion is 20x5s, 20x25s, 14x100s. Why start everyone with a 500 chip when it won't generally get used until much later? I seem to be in the minority in this thought, so wanted to throw it out here for opinions. Thanks!

 

[DrStrange]

The reason I have "skinny / tall" starting stacks in a tournament is to manage the size of the set required to spread the event.

When the field is small enough, I would be happy with "Fat / short " starting stacks. If you do this, be quick to race off the lowest value chip because the stacks will become more and more unmanageable. Rebuys should be only higher value chips in my opinion.

Keep in mind that I am almost 100% cash games these days. I am sure the true tournament experts will offer better / more nuanced advice.

DrStrange

 

[BGinGA]

Best solution for minimizing change-making is to ditch the T5 chips altogether, and start using a T25-base set. The blinds and bet amounts in the resulting structure inherently require a lot less change-making from the very start, and for most players, are easier to calculate.

 

[fieldsy]

If you like having a lot of chips in play, you ought to give it a try and see how it goes. In my experience there's a point of diminishing returns, where having more chips on the table doesn't add any convenience and is just unwieldy, but it took a lot of trial and error to get to what I like to use. I think 54 chips in those denominations would be a lot for a tournament. It's not so much a problem in the beginning when you're 8- or 9-handed, but if you knock out a couple players you likely have one guy sitting with 70 or 80 T5 chips that may still technically be in play but that he's barely using at the current blinds. But again, you and your group may like that, so run with it and figure out your personal preference.

I love chips, and stacks of chips, but I find that large piles of smaller-denomination chips are more burdensome in tournaments than in cash games. Also, I agree with @BGinGA that a T25-based structure is more convenient. You have enough T500 chips to do that for a single-table tournament, although if you can add a rack of T1000 chips it may make things a little easier.

 

[Mr Winberg]

My suggestion is 20x5s, 20x25s, 14x100s.

I say go for it! If you don't like it, then try something different next time.

It's not that extreme, anyway. A bit, perhaps, but not "Glasgow extreme". Not like the tournaments at @BonScot's place, where the T100 don't make the starting stack:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/thoughts-on-this-for-a-t1000.41679/

 

[Rhodeman77]

Even with larger amounts of smaller chips they will tend to find themselves into a few players stacks in short order. Some players are going to use 5 T5 chips to put out a 25 bet instead a single 25 chip then those chips will get buried in the winners pile.

I like to have a starting stack right around 40 chips. That usually gives enough small chips that change making isn’t bad and players feel get have plenty of chips to splash around with early on.

 

[Jake14mw]

Thanks for everyone's opinions, keep them coming! What do you think about starting with a 500 chip instead of 5 more 100s?

 

[BGinGA]

Even with larger amounts of smaller chips they will tend to find themselves into a few players stacks in short order. Some players are going to use 5 T5 chips to put out a 25 bet instead a single 25 chip then those chips will get buried in the winners pile.

I like to have a starting stack right around 40 chips. That usually gives enough small chips that change making isn’t bad and players feel get have plenty of chips to splash around with early on.

I agree: for most structures, 35-40 chips per player is the sweet spot, although as few as 27 can still work efficiently in many cases. Twice that many is unneccessary, inefficient, and a waste of chipping dollars.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Thanks for everyone's opinions, keep them coming! What do you think about starting with a 500 chip instead of 5 more 100s?

The T100 will be work horses in the later stages, so I don't think they will be a problem. Also, T100s are easy for players, even the beginners, to work with. 17 means 1700, anyone can count that. As people have said, the large number of lower denoms might pose a problem.

But still: Go for it! How else will you know?

 

[BonScot]

I say go for it! If you don't like it, then try something different next time.

It's not that extreme, anyway. A bit, perhaps, but not "Glasgow extreme". Not like the tournaments at @BonScot's place, where the T100 don't make the starting stack:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/thoughts-on-this-for-a-t1000.41679/

That was crazy but it made everyone so much looser early on. I’ll do it again.
The red T5s get everywhere but everyone enjoyed it.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Thought I might explain why I think you should go for it:

My thought is, give everybody bigger stacks!

I seem to be in the minority in this thought

You are in the minority, but you're not alone. I run T25 base tournaments and was tempted to try 20/20/15 for my T10k tournaments and 20/20/5/15 for my T20k. I was almost deterred by the arguments against this, but gave it a try anyway. I liked it, and my experience is that if you make sure to educate your players in keeping neet stacks, then the drawbacks aren't that big, IMO.

A difference between 20/20/x/y with a T5 base (your suggestions) and 20/20/x/y with a T25 base (as in my tourneys) is, as others have stated, that a T25 structure requires less change making and bets are more easily calculated. Therefore, you might experience more issues than I do.

 

[allforcharity]

T2K with 10/10/7/2 is not bad. I don't remember a lot of change-making the last time I played this. 15/13/11/1 would work as well. Just make sure you have 3 (or 4) extra T100 per player to colour-up all the T5s and T25s.

 

[Jake14mw]

Thanks all for your opinions. Based on what I have heard, I think next time I will try 15/17/15, or 15/17/10/1. I'm thinking that the question about whether or not to use a 500 won't matter too much.

 

[MaxB]

My official opinion .... I don't like T5 chips

I do like bigger starting stacks

 

[Darson]

I guess it depends how your game plays. We played 25c/25c last Friday night 5-handed and eventually had the whole rack of quarters out and nearly two racks of $1s. We still had to make change for quarters even though there was a barrel each between the five of us. All the pre-flop betting was in quarters with people preferring to throw out 4 quarters rather than a single $1 if they had the quarters. This led to people running out of quarters quickly and then making change whenever they could.