Sketchy behavior (1 Viewer)

[Darson]

I hosted my first proper poker night last night and something sketchy happened. $20 buy in, starting stack is 2000 and we’re playing tournament style with unlimited rebuys. One guy (the only one I didn’t know) didn’t play much, busted out once then bought back in. Wasn’t involved in many pots then finally won a hand with less than 1000.

After winning the hand, he announces that it’s getting serious and pulled out over 5000 in chips from his pocket. We all looked puzzled and told him that he cannot keep chips in his pocket. I told him he was probably at the only house in this neighborhood where he won’t get shot for that behavior. I’m pretty sure he didn’t have anything like that many chips but we’re all drinking and can’t say for sure. He started blathering that’s what they did playing cash games in casinos back home...

I couldn’t eject him as he came with another guy and it’s my first time hosting and I didn’t want to make a fuss. I told him quietly he would not get invited next time. Fortunately he busted out just before the paying positions.

This is supposed to be fun amongst friends and left a bad taste in my mouth. I know I should have kept the chips under control but apart from him these are all good friends I trust and we’re not talking significant sums of money.

 

[Kain8]

The guy had the exact same chips in his pocket that you were playing with? If you were using dice chips, this may be the wake up call you need to buy anything else to avoid this from happening again.

 

[ruskba]

So he grabbed chips out of the rack to randomly put in play? Aka he stole 2.5x the starting stack to add to his stack? And you actually let him play it out with those chips?

Definitely made the right call about not inviting him back. And definitely secure your chips better. But you can’t let that stand at your game or other players will think they can do it too.

 

[Lemonzest]

good news...he didnt win

make clear rules at the outset...all chips stay on the table.

may want to give that dude a miss next time sending invites.

 

[Jambine]

After winning the hand, he announces that it’s getting serious and pulled out over 5000 in chips from his pocket.

sorry sir, you are OUT !!

 

[Jambine]

make clear rules at the outset.

This of course. Rules make all games better (especially playing with friends)

 

[Lemonzest]

This of course. Rules make all games better (especially playing with friends)

Honestly though keeping chips on the table isnt something I would think of. I would assume even noob players would keep chips in play...even moreso in a tourney.

 

[Trihonda]

Can we ask what chips you were using?

If he had chips brought from home, then he’s clearly cheating. He is trying to rob you. He doesnt deserve any quarter or consideration. Instant ejection (friend or no friend present ) ...

If he somehow snagged some chips from a rack (that maybe wasn’t secured) that he didn’t pay for... them he’s cheating, see above.

It’s no different than if he had reached in the lockbox (or your back pocket) and taken half the prize pool... cheating. He’s disrespecting your home, your game, and the other players. He didn’t deserve to keep playing.

And as for keeping this game viable and friendly, I’d probably think twice about returning if I observed this, and the host allowed him to continue to play.

 

[upNdown]

Do you think he rat-holed chips from his first two buyins, or do you think he stole chips when you weren't looking?

Either way, that's screwed up, and although people are free to add CASH chips from their pockets during cash games, definitely NOBODY plays tournament poker that way AND there was no legitimate way for him to get tournament chips into his pocket to begin with.

 

[RichMahogany]

Nope. You’re immediately out. Zero tolerance

 

[Kyle]

I would have no problem telling him those chips are not in play and that he cannot do that, especially if you dont know this guy.

His friend has to be pretty embarrassed for his behavior. Maybe he didn't cash but he did effect the overall outcome of the game to some degree.

My advice is to make sure you keep tabs of all buy ins and Rebuys and that you as the host are the only one handling this duty.

Keep extra chips in a bird cage or pokerchip suitcase that is not easily and readily available to the players.

If you are using somewhat common chips like dice chips etc. then this gives you a good reason to upgrade your current set so that it is hard to get outside chips into your game.

Lesson learned.

 

[Darson]

We are using my outlaws, impossible that he brought them with him - it's the first time I've met him so he doesn't know what chips I have.

The chips were all on a side table and there was a good stack of 500s/1000s there. What he pulled out was at least 8x500 and a similar number of 100s. Whether he pocketed chips from a prior pot or took them off the side table, I can't really say. Bear in mind we're milling around during the breaks and everyone leaves their chips at the table so he could have pilfered at any time. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and imagine he just pocketed chips from a pot he won where I wan't paying attention but I'm having a hard time doing that.

 

[justsomedude]

I know I should have kept the chips under control...

You’re implying he stole chips out of the rack. Chips should constantly be under host control.

I probably would have ejected the player on the spot to keep things fair for everyone else. But it sounds like you handled it calmly and everyone took it in stride. Good on you for telling him he wouldn’t be invited back.

 

[Darthhoodie]

Wow that is crazy and I am sorry someone tried pulling that crap on you on your 1st game.

Some advice that I'm sure others will echo:
1) You need to make it clear that all chips must remain on the table at all times, visible to all other players.
2) You need to keep the chips secure at all times.
3) Make it known that hiding chips in a tournament is cheating and anyone found to be cheating will be instantly ejected from the game and will forfeit all chips and winnings.

I am curious if the final chip count on the table matched the starting stacks + re buys to that point. It's something you could have checked the moment he pulled all the chips out of his pants.
If you had more chips than the re buys plus starting stacks then you know he stole the chips from the racks not in play. But even if they were his chips that were legit his, it's still cheating to hide them in his pocket and should be ejected instantly.

I would want to know if he was a thief or just a dumb ass who thought it would be cool the try that stunt. Either way I am most likely never inviting him back but I would handle a thief differently than a jackass.

Keep the faith, I'm sure that taking a few steps to secure your game will not offend any of your friends and will keep the fun atmosphere you want in your game.

Good luck!

 

[upNdown]

We are using my outlaws, impossible that he brought them with him - it's the first time I've met him so he doesn't know what chips I have.

The chips were all on a side table and there was a good stack of 500s/1000s there. What he pulled out was at least 8x500 and a similar number of 100s. Whether he pocketed chips from a prior pot or took them off the side table, I can't really say. Bear in mind we're milling around during the breaks and everyone leaves their chips at the table so he could have pilfered at any time. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and imagine he just pocketed chips from a pot he won where I wan't paying attention but I'm having a hard time doing that.

So, to be brutally honest, you failed left and right here.
You shouldn't have left your chips accessible. You should have known exactly how many chips you had on the side table. You should have known exactly how many chips were supposed to be in play (then you could have calculated where those chips came from) you should have asked him where the chips came from, and you should have tossed him out if you could verify that they didn't come from a prior pot.
There can be some unpleasant duties that go along with hosting, and you need to be prepared for a confrontation when the situation arises.
Live and learn.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

agree to everything said above. For sure this guy doesn't get an invite back and I would be telling my friend that brought him, he has one strike against him and if it gets to 2 your out

ETA he know exactly what he was doing since he has done it before......

 

[grantc54]

Many years ago I had this happen where a player moved tables and had a large chip in his pocket so when another player put him all in they didn't know he had more behind.

I know it was from play as all my chips are always accounted for and locked up securely. It was an honest mistake by the player and I let him keep the chip.

If this ever happened again I wouldn't eject the player but the chips in pocket would be out of play.

As previously stated, even though it is a tournament treat your chips like cash. Even if you trust everyone people can get weird when they think they can get away with things like adding a few chips (it is strange how people can justify bad behavior).

You should also know exactly how many chips are in play based on number of buyins/rebuys and how many each stack gets.

Grant

 

[Tukchip]

I told him he was probably at the only house in this neighborhood where he won’t (will) get shot for that behavior.

Maybe state this to all the players before the game starts to get them to think twice before pocking chips ?

 

[Darson]

OK, you're probably gonna scream at me for this but the pot was kept in a glass bowl on the same table with the chips and there was $360 at the end of the night.

To be fair to the guy, he apologized several times and even tried to tip me $10 which I refused to accept but found in the pot bowl while tidying up this morning.

Anyway, lesson learned - I'll keep much better control of the chips next time.

 

[grantc54]

Anyway, lesson learned - I'll keep much better control of the chips next time.

AND money!!! You are lucky things worked out and good for you for taking this as a lesson.

If you don't give anyone a chance to do anything dishonest then you dont have to worry about trusting everyone.

Having a money issues at payout can permanently sour people to your game (and really it is up to you to eat them as people are trusting you to run the game).

Grant

 

[justsomedude]

OK, you're probably gonna scream at me for this but the pot was kept in a glass bowl on the same table with the chips and there was $360 at the end of the night.

No need to scream. I'll just give you this link.

This is supposed to be fun amongst friends...

I understand wanting to keep things light, fun, social, and friendly, but when there's money involved attitudes can change quickly, and you have to be prepared to make quick/firm decisions. Having a printed/posted set of house rules can help (#1 no ratholing, lesson learned on that one!), and keeping a hard copy set of Robert's Rules of Poker handy will help you settle any disputes.

In general, playing fast/loose with rules and/or etiquette, even among friends, is a surefire way to get people to avoid your game in the future. Hosting an honest/fair game and making those tough decisions, will help you gain the respect of your players and is what keeps folks coming back. (y) :thumbsup:

 

[BGinGA]

Chips taken off the table stay off the table, period -- regardless of origin. If it's not already in your written rules, add it.

I would have let him continue with his T1000 stack, but any chips coming out of his pocket get immediately confiscated and permanently removed from play (ie, in a secured location, with all of the other chips not currently in play).

Pretty easy and quick to tell if they were won/ratholed or stolen, too -- just count up the total number of buyins and rebuys, and compare that to the number of chips on the table. If they don't match, he's ejected. Not my problem how he gets home, or when. Call uber, dude.

Moving chips from one table to another should be done in your hands, baggie, clean empty plastic cup, or a chip rack. Never in a pocket, purse, backpack, or anything else that removes them from open view.

 

[upNdown]

For what it’s worth, I might accept his apologies and give him one more chance. Total judgement call, but if he did just stash his own chips in his pocket because that’s what he’s used to, and there were no rules posted to the contrary, then it was an honest mistake.
I dunno, your call.

 

[Rhodeman77]

At the very minimum I would make him forfeit his stack and make him rebuy if he wanted to keep playing. I’d also make him empty his pockets to make sure he didn’t have any more.

Then make sure the rest of the rebuy chips are secure!!!

Remind your players that all chip in play must be on the table with big value chips out front or on top.

Locks keep men honest. If the opportunity isn’t there then this probably never happens.

 

[JustinInMN]

Do you think he rat-holed chips from his first two buyins, or do you think he stole chips when you weren't looking?

I think rat-holing is far more likely, guy could have just been picking chips off the table from every rebuy, allowing himself the advantage of introducing chips later. Be far more brazen to take from the case assuming @Darson is watching or everyone in the game is asleep.

But either way the rule is clear in any tournament ruleset, pocketed chips are forefitted.

agree to everything said above. For sure this guy doesn't get an invite back and I would be telling my friend that brought him, he has one strike against him and if it gets to 2 your out

Sheldon Cooper method ftw

 

[JustinInMN]

Cash games are a little different, you can buy in with chips at casinos (high stakes players sometime prefer to carry the white 300s instead of 100 dollar bills) but obviously once in play, they only come off when surrendering the seat.

If I am charitable this might be what I assume your villian was thinking.

 

[JustinInMN]

On this player's future if you can prove he messed with the bank, banhammer. And @Trihonda is right, I wouldn't return to a game that would consider tolerating this.

If he only ratholed it could just be gross ignorance of the etiquette. His contrition leads me to believe that's more likely the situation. You can use your judgement then.

As far as rulesets go you don't have to be as detailed as what I have in my signature, but at the very least you should make it known "in the event of a dispute host will make a decision consulting (name of rulebook)."

Then you are covered and everyone understands there's a final plan that's fair.

 

[Jambine]

Rules rule

 

[T_Chan]

I had this happen to me at a fundraiser once before. A guy went all in and then when his opponent called, he pulled out a bunch more chips out of his girlfriend's purse who was sitting beside him. They were his chips which was was slipping off the table and into her purse.

We gave him a warning letting him know that it wasn't allowed and it didn't happen again. But at the time, everyone was in shock. Like wow.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

When I joined my weekly tourney group about 10 years ago, there was a couple who would always pocket their chips during breaks. Yeah, I know, but I was new to the group and fairly new to poker, so I didn't know any better at the time.

As I learned from 2+2 and the blue site, I figured something fishy might be going on. I talked to the host, we started counting the chip set regularly - there were several large-denom chips missing from the set. We instituted a new rule that chips had to stay on the table at all times, and this couple left the group shortly afterward. While we never caught them in the act (and we were watching pretty closely at the end), we're fairly sure that they were pocketing big chips and probably chip dumping during breaks.

This was a $10 game, btw.