Simple easy to understand procedures for cheating prevention (1 Viewer)

ArielVer18

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My group chat of local poker hosts and players is currently blowing up due to a possible cheating scandal stemming from a suspicious shuffle. I wasn't there, but from the video I saw, the player was slowly riffle shuffling face up, so "suspicious" is an understatement. I'm not saying definitively he/she is stacking cards, but there is no legitimate reason to shuffle with all the cards facing up.

While I like to think I run a tight ship with comprehensive written rules and procedures, I cannot say the same for some other hosts. What are some digestible tips that can be helpful to all poker hosts in protecting the integrity of the poker games?

I'll start:
  • Don't act sus; avoid the appearance of impropriety
  • Cards on the table at all time
  • Person who deal is different from the person who shuffled
 
The player was slowly riffle shuffling face up, so "suspicious" is an understatement. I'm not saying definitively he/she is stacking cards, but there is no legitimate reason to shuffle with all the cards facing up.
What kinda cards you using? One of my newer players shuffled like this and we figured out it was because he was used to shuffling paper cards and did that to bend them back into shape after shuffling normally, kinda like bending them one way then the other.

Not making excuses, just relating to a similar problem we had.
 
Definitely a WTF sort of moment. Host should speak up, but not make any accusations. Just note the practice is unacceptable and ask for the deck to be reshuffled.

Sometimes it might be tempting to shuffle somewhat used paper cards face up to get some of the bend out. But never in game conditions. Better to pitch the paper cards and use plastic if that is the case.

While it is far harder to stack the deck than people seem to think, there are plenty of ways to have the person dealing not be the one shuffling the cards. A good practice for security and it speeds the game up if you have two decks on the table. One deck in play and one being shuffled for the next hand. Be sure to use cut cards.

FWIW, the biggest cheating issue I have run into in home games is shorting the pot. I have seen issues with dice chips being snuck into games leaving the bank short.

In some raked games, the dealer over rakes. Not sure that counts as cheating. One my regulars said he got paid extra if the rake from his down was big enough. If the players weren't paying attention he commonly dropped extra. :cautious:
 
  • Shuffle and deal all cards face down
  • Play on a table that doesn't have a see-through surface (such as glass)
  • Use a cut card
  • Use custom/semi-custom chips
  • Don't show the guy next to you your cards
  • Don't let the guy next to you show you his cards
  • Keep the cards face down until the hand is over
  • Don't let the dealer peek through the deck to see what the turn/river will be (especially when he/she is in the hand)
Most of these have to do with keeping the cards face down, so hopefully my sarcasm shines through here.
 
What kinda cards you using? One of my newer players shuffled like this and we figured out it was because he was used to shuffling paper cards and did that to bend them back into shape after shuffling normally, kinda like bending them one way then the other.

Not making excuses, just relating to a similar problem we had.
Me? All my decks are plastics. I wasn't at the game where this alleged cheating scandal occurred, but based on the video I saw the cards sound like plastics too.

I'm considering only allowing the following shuffling techniques at my game:
  • wash
  • riffle
  • strip (aka box)
  • one-handed cut
That means no bridge, overhand, Indian, or any other shuffling style that may be fine for other card games, but not fine for poker.
 
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slowly riffle shuffling face up
That’s outrageous. I’ve never seen that before. How doesn’t the entire table speak up? But realistically, who’s cheating like that? That’s just dumb city.

But like others have said - use two decks, one guy shuffles behind, another guy cuts onto a cut card, and then the dealer gets the deck. It’s pretty simple and totally secure as far as I can tell.
 
I have been doing that forever, if the deck comes to me for shuffling obviously bent. I'll give it one riffle face up, and then *at least* five more riffles face down -- with multiple cuts interspersed..

No one has ever said a word to me, including at meetups.
 
We have to look at the circumstances and potential root cause. Is this a one time issue? Are there other potential issues that have occurred at this group of hosts’ games?

Because that would change how effective digestible tips and rules would be.

Hard to say without more information, but my thoughts are:

Maybe swift kicks are needed more than digestible tips, how is it that there is video evidence? Why was something not said by any surrounding player immediately to correct the action? Instead someone had the time and wherewithal to record?

And dependent on that answer, maybe the digestible tip is to work better players in, or risk losing all your good players. This obviously shouldn’t be happening, and your better guests are either going to be rolling their eyes or very unhappy about the proceedings. Fix your ish host, or only have folks that pull this kinda stuff left over.
 
I have been doing that forever, if the deck comes to me for shuffling obviously bent. I'll give it one riffle face up, and then *at least* five more riffles face down -- with multiple cuts interspersed..

No one has ever said a word to me, including at meetups.
Doesn’t sound like quite the same thing.
 
Doesn’t sound like quite the same thing.
Why is it not the same thing? We're given no information except one video of a 'slow' riffle faceup. We know nothing else.

Not saying they're cheating/ not cheating, but some of my players do this to bend them back and they're slow. Guarantee they're imagining beef lo mein and aren't cheating though lol.
 
We have to look at the circumstances and potential root cause. Is this a one time issue? Are there other potential issues that have occurred at this group of hosts’ games?

Because that would change how effective digestible tips and rules would be.

Hard to say without more information, but my thoughts are:

Maybe swift kicks are needed more than digestible tips, how is it that there is video evidence? Why was something not said by any surrounding player immediately to correct the action? Instead someone had the time and wherewithal to record?

And dependent on that answer, maybe the digestible tip is to work better players in, or risk losing all your good players. This obviously shouldn’t be happening, and your better guests are either going to be rolling their eyes or very unhappy about the proceedings. Fix your ish host, or only have folks that pull this kinda stuff left over.
You're asking questions I can't answer because I wasn't there. In fact, I don't even know this person IRL. Videos are being circulated, as well as social media profiles, phone number, Venmo handle. The player's SO is also getting doxxed because it's assumed they're working together. I almost feel bad for them. Almost
 
Why is it not the same thing? We're given no information except one video of a 'slow' riffle faceup. We know nothing else.

Not saying they're cheating/ not cheating, but some of my players do this to bend them back and they're slow. Guarantee they're imagining beef lo mein and aren't cheating though lol.
Maybe we’re suffering from a shortage of information. But this was presented to us as a cheating scandal based on a guy riffling slowly face up. If he had immediately riffled face down 5 times, I wouldn’t think anybody would have any concerns.
But fair enough. If that’s exactly what the guy did, but all that was captured on video was the face-up bit, and everybody overreacted to an incomplete video that didn’t make sense, then yeah, I’m as bad as chicken little.
 
Maybe we’re suffering from a shortage of information. But this was presented to us as a cheating scandal based on a guy riffling slowly face up. If he had immediately riffled face down 5 times, I wouldn’t think anybody would have any concerns.
But fair enough. If that’s exactly what the guy did, but all that was captured on video was the face-up bit, and everybody overreacted to an incomplete video that didn’t make sense, then yeah, I’m as bad as chicken little.
Im not saying you're chicken little lol, you just seem to get momentum on these things very quickly. To jump to 'outrageous' and 'how does the entire table not speak up' on so little information is too much for me. Social media is insanity, if its a slow upside down shuffle in a quick 4 second video, I just cant accuse anyone of cheating from that, thats all.

I get you; if its a habit or if its the last action before pitching? Egregious for sure.
 
Im not saying you're chicken little lol, you just seem to get momentum on these things very quickly. To jump to 'outrageous' and 'how does the entire table not speak up' on so little information is too much for me. Social media is insanity, if its a slow upside down shuffle in a quick 4 second video, I just cant accuse anyone of cheating from that, thats all.

I get you; if its a habit or if its the last action before pitching? Egregious for sure.
Yeah my bad for sure, but that’s why I am chicken little. I’m just assuming the information I got was good. If OP and all his friends are actually making a big deal out of a video of a single face-up riffle and nothing more, then they’re all suspect. Because as I said in my first comment - who would cheat like that?
So yes, I’m a dummy. But I’m confident the solution is more whiskey, not less.
 
Yeah my bad for sure, but that’s why I am chicken little. I’m just assuming the information I got was good. If OP and all his friends are actually making a big deal out of a video of a single face-up riffle and nothing more, then they’re all suspect. Because as I said in my first comment - who would cheat like that?
So yes, I’m a dummy. But I’m confident the solution is more whiskey, not less.
Not a dummy, you're a good person to have around, pendulum needs momentum LOL. Honestly I'm biased because most of games have at least half noobs so Im more forgiving and protective of these issues.
 
Yeah, I find that a teaching moment like that, handled well, can go a long way. You'll get a good sense where everyone is at if you take the time to explain how"...something like that shouldn't be done at a poker table where money is involved, because, you know, people could get the wrong idea, and, I'm sure you wouldn't want that to happen, would you... "and then insert their name there.
 

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