Reshuffles in multi-draw cash games (1 Viewer)

[buzzmonkey]

Hello everyone. We do an occasional mix-cash game but it's been a while and I want to make sure I have the rules correct on multi-draw games where the available cards in the stub are insufficient.

Scenario.

1. Deal to all players.
2. First player to act calls the blind or raises. Betting continues until action closes as usual.
3. Players started to the left of the dealer discard and receive their new cards.
4. On the second or third draw, there are not enough cards to give everyone their desired draws.

Questions

1. Do you check how many draws are requested before dealing them out or do you deal to all players as desired until you run out of cards (leaving the bottom card in the stub)? Or do you deal out to each player until you run out of enough cards to complete a player's desired draw?
2. On a reshuffle, I'm certain you do not shuffle in the burn cards, but do you also not shuffle in any discards on the current round?
3. Do you cut the deck on the reshuffle?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

We don't burn in these games. Makes it easier.

1. No, don't check to see draws ahead of time. Deal out until the stub is done, then shuffle discards.

2. I have separated "first folds" before, hands that were folded early that no current player has seen. If this isn't an option, shuffle everything together. Either way random is random.

3. Yes, always cut the deck onto a cut card after any reshuffle. Its not a big deal until it is, best to avoid issues when cards are flying back and forth. There's also more chances to flash the bottom card with all the draws going on.

 

[Jimulacrum]

You have to keep two separate muck piles:

1. Previously folded cards and previous rounds' discards
2. Current round's discards

When you reshuffle, only include the cards in group #1 to avoid giving anyone a card someone just discarded.

When the drawing for a round is over, mix the cards from #2 into the #1 pile for the next round.

If you must reshuffle, do a complete shuffle that includes all the usual stages, including a cut.

 

[Jimulacrum]

We don't burn in these games. Makes it easier.

I recommend the opposite. I always keep the burn cards directly in front of me when I deal draw games, to keep track of how many draws there have been. Usually there isn't a problem keeping track, but sometimes disputes can arise here, and it's best to have the burn cards there so there isn't any doubt.

 

[doublebooyah85]

We don't burn in these games. Makes it easier.

I actually highly recommend burning for draw games, because then you know if you’re on the first draw, second draw or third draw. We’ve had many arguments about what draw we are on, and we use each burn card to represent where you are on the draws. You could always go back to them if you need virgin cards, etc..

@Jimulacrum nailed it in regards to everything ur asking

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I recommend the opposite. I always keep the burn cards directly in front of me when I deal draw games, to keep track of how many draws there have been. Usually there isn't a problem keeping track, but sometimes disputes can arise here, and it's best to have the burn cards there so there isn't any doubt.

I actually highly recommend burning for draw games, because then you know if you’re on the first draw, second draw or third draw.

Huh. I like this and will think about it going forward. Lately I haven't been burning at all for circus/draw grames but this is a great point that I may use. Thanks.

 

[buzzmonkey]

I burn for all games. The purpose of the burn doesn't change just because the game does.

 

[mattross1313]

A well timed thread/question. I'm planning a mixed game tournament for this Saturday, followed by NHLE cash (the inverse of our usual evening). This question crossed my mind earlier today while starting to select games.

Thanks

 

[Jimulacrum]

I burn for all games. The purpose of the burn doesn't change just because the game does.

Agreed. Skipping burn cards is asking to get cheated without even realizing how it happened. One little accidental (or not) mark on a card, and now a player can know for sure the or whatever is coming on the turn.

See also: pre-burning "to get it out of the way" (why bother?) and pre-dealing the whole board face-down.

 

[mattross1313]

pre-dealing the whole board face-down.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Yep, that's about where I stand on it too. Drives me nuts.

Even worse with sloppy dealers. So many players think they're good dealers but are truly awful, incapable of taking a card off the deck without peeling it upward, and that's bad enough dealing hole cards and all the exposed cards that can happen. It's a catastrophe when you're giving the guy across from you an opportunity to see the entire board before it's dealt.