moose
4 of a Kind
Looking for suggestions on how to run one. Online it is easy because no chips but with chips how would you do it?
Tourney Progressive knockout tourney (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter moose
- Start date
Nex
Flush
Two different bounty chips for every player, resembling the half that is added to your bounty and the other half you can cash out later?
Probably would work with just one bounty chip too, just have to pay out the other half straight up when someone gets knocked out.
Split pots still are a PITA if you don't want to mess with cash deals among players.
Probably would work with just one bounty chip too, just have to pay out the other half straight up when someone gets knocked out.
Split pots still are a PITA if you don't want to mess with cash deals among players.
OP
OP
moose
4 of a Kind
That's what I was thinking but it doesn't work after the first knockout.
Let's say $20 bounties, one red, one blue worth $10 each
A knocks out B, taking both bounties. Now A has 2 red and 2 blue bounty chips but one is cashable by him for taking out B and his bounty goes up by one unit to $30.
C has his two original bounty chips and takes out A. C should receive $15 in cashable bounties and add $15 to his bounty, making his worth $35. So the two bounty chip idea doesn't work because they are units of $10.
The local casino is running one this weekend so it must be possible to track but I can't make it so I don't know how they are going to do it.
Let's say $20 bounties, one red, one blue worth $10 each
A knocks out B, taking both bounties. Now A has 2 red and 2 blue bounty chips but one is cashable by him for taking out B and his bounty goes up by one unit to $30.
C has his two original bounty chips and takes out A. C should receive $15 in cashable bounties and add $15 to his bounty, making his worth $35. So the two bounty chip idea doesn't work because they are units of $10.
The local casino is running one this weekend so it must be possible to track but I can't make it so I don't know how they are going to do it.
Only way I can see it work effectively is to pay out bounty amounts immediately as they are won, and then use some type of 'changeable' device* for the bounty chip that stays in play (which increases in value). Everybody starts out with one bounty worth $x, but bounty winners will only have a special one that reflects it's current value.
* Could have a bunch pre-made with various denominations (swapping them into play appropriately), or cardboard in an airtite (changing the number inside), or some type of dry-erasable ink item (block of melamine, etc.) that gets the value number changed. Or magic-mark a piece of tape and apply it to a chip.
Side note: Dunno how they plan to pay out half of a $35 bounty per your example above (player C), unless they are carrying coins (or maybe cash-value chips).
Very interested to hear how they do it; please let us know.
* Could have a bunch pre-made with various denominations (swapping them into play appropriately), or cardboard in an airtite (changing the number inside), or some type of dry-erasable ink item (block of melamine, etc.) that gets the value number changed. Or magic-mark a piece of tape and apply it to a chip.
Side note: Dunno how they plan to pay out half of a $35 bounty per your example above (player C), unless they are carrying coins (or maybe cash-value chips).
Very interested to hear how they do it; please let us know.
OP
OP
moose
4 of a Kind
Unfortunately the only info I have is this
And this from PokerStars. As I said it's easy to do without chips.
And this from PokerStars. As I said it's easy to do without chips.
OP
OP
moose
4 of a Kind
I think I have the low down on how it worked at the casino. The dealer held the bounties in the tray as 4 $25 cash chips. Anyone you took out, half the chips went into your spot in the tray and half went to you as cash.
So I tried to think about it and 4 bounty chips seems to always work because the bounty will always be divisible by two. Anyone think of a case where that wouldn't work?
So I tried to think about it and 4 bounty chips seems to always work because the bounty will always be divisible by two. Anyone think of a case where that wouldn't work?
Player A ko's player B, wins $50 and has $150 in tray. Player C ko's Player A, wins $75 and has $175 in tray. Anybody that ko's Player C is going to require something other than $25 chips.
OP
OP
moose
4 of a Kind
Yeah I came to the same conclusion. Round up or down I guess.
Frogzilla
4 of a Kind
Here is how I would do it. Each player starts with 2 bounty chips. When there is a knockout (A eliminates B), A would get 2 chips from B, plus half of what remains. B must cash the remaining bounty immediately (no incentive to palm away bounty chips). Odd chips, if any, go to A.
Nex
Flush
So the basic approach with using multiple Bounty chips was correct; just the number of chips needed tweaking.
Like @BGinGA said, even four chips won't be enough to ensure clean splits are always possible. The method of having the dealer keep control over four $25 chips for every player could be refined by using more smaller-denomination chips per player, e.g. twenty $5s. This still won't produce clean splits in every case, but the amount to round up or down will be smaller this way. Of course one could also go all the way by using a full-fledged regular cash set with multiple denoms for the progressive part of the bounties, down to such small denoms as $0.25.
Nex
Flush
Dealer keeps the cash chips in his tray and exclusively handles them, so colors shouldn't be so much of an issue.
Only give them to players when table balancing occurs and they move to a different table. Could/should even put them in tamper-evident bags to ensure no chips are taken away between tables. Also ensures tournament and cash chips can't mix in such cases.
Only give them to players when table balancing occurs and they move to a different table. Could/should even put them in tamper-evident bags to ensure no chips are taken away between tables. Also ensures tournament and cash chips can't mix in such cases.
Following this thread as I also tried to come up with a way to do this that would be easy to manage.
I couldn't figure out it out.
I think a bounty chip that converts to cash chips when won would work best.
Grant
I couldn't figure out it out.
I think a bounty chip that converts to cash chips when won would work best.
Grant
Sounds like logistical nightmare, not to mention players just pocketing the extra cash chips when moving to a new table.
Only sensible solution is to issue a bounty chip to a ko winner that reflects it's actual value. Shouldn't be too big of an issue, if paying out half at the same time.
Nex
Flush
That's why I suggested the use of tamper-evident bags. Player comes to new table, dealer checks bag - if seal is broken, player gets disqualified on the spot. Simple as that.
To the logistical nightmare, of course there is one. Also a lot more work for the dealers. But I believe this is simply intrinsic to such a feature. Of course you could ditch the cash chips and instead provide every dealer with smartphones/tablets that all connect to some sort of central database where every player's current bounties are kept track of. Advantage: Dealer doesn't have to calculate, they can just enter something simple like "Player A just knocked out Player B" and the system would take care of the necessary calculations. Another bonus is that with such a system in place, TDs could have everyone's current bounties displayed on big screens for everyone to see. After all, the size of a bounty on someone's head will almost certainly influence some call/fold decisions. Downside: You need such a software in the first place, and possibly lots of hardware (depending on the tournament size). The software would be fairly simple to develop on its own, but the big problem would be the necessary integration with other tournament management software (player table changes must update through all systems).
To the logistical nightmare, of course there is one. Also a lot more work for the dealers. But I believe this is simply intrinsic to such a feature. Of course you could ditch the cash chips and instead provide every dealer with smartphones/tablets that all connect to some sort of central database where every player's current bounties are kept track of. Advantage: Dealer doesn't have to calculate, they can just enter something simple like "Player A just knocked out Player B" and the system would take care of the necessary calculations. Another bonus is that with such a system in place, TDs could have everyone's current bounties displayed on big screens for everyone to see. After all, the size of a bounty on someone's head will almost certainly influence some call/fold decisions. Downside: You need such a software in the first place, and possibly lots of hardware (depending on the tournament size). The software would be fairly simple to develop on its own, but the big problem would be the necessary integration with other tournament management software (player table changes must update through all systems).
I think I'd just issue official bounty ~slips~ (not chips), made out for the actual amount. Maybe have 'em in plastic sleeves like name tags or baseball cards.
Seems like the simplest and least confusing solution.
Seems like the simplest and least confusing solution.
OP
OP
moose
4 of a Kind
When players moved tables, the floor staff moved the bounties.
Do any of the tournament apps folks use currently track bounties? Might be a good solution and relatively easy for a developer to program the logic. Of course, not as much fun as a stack of bounty chips.
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