Poker vs Bridge Size (4 Viewers)

[Taghkanic]

Deal better.

I can deal pretty decently. Most of my regs can’t.

 

[Machine]

The AI walls of text do nothing to forward the argument.

Also do tell us why, in terms of actual physics, a very slightly lighter and narrower card must be easier to pitch than a very slightly heavier and wider one.

I think poker-size cards are easier to pitch, not because of the strength needed, but because of the width, which 'floats' on the air as they are pitched. You ought not spin the card such that it rotates like a throwing star lol.

@Taghkanic, after reading the AI script and your perspective, I have a question.

If bridge cards are more inclusive for people to deal, and make it easier to hold larger quantities of cards, and are adopted by a larger population, doesn't that, by definition, make them a clear winner as a better card?

Not to mention, they cost less because less material is needed to make them.

Do we have any metrics on worldwide sales of bridge vs. poker? Or total sales for poker rooms/casinos?

While you are adamant about Poker-size being better, I think the real argument is that your perspective is subjective.

I love your passion for poker, but it's not an argument you can win.

For me, I'm not 100% sure yet, but I'm leaning toward bridge.

 

[GamingWithChips]

Why are people arguing the physics of which card is better? lol

Like I can understand arguing why a certain type of leather is better for a football or basketball. But there are no physics that make one size better or worse in terms of playing the game internationally, it is literally all subjective. And since we are talking about preferences from the beginning, I don't think this thread is meant to argue and find a master race of card sizes.

If you were to ask my opinion? I'd say poker size mostly since at self dealt games people have to pitch across an entire table, not just from the middle like a dealer. I think it's more likely a bridge card would flip from people poorly pitching them.

Otherwise, I like the look of bridge better, poker size looks fat lol

 

[Colquhoun]

Bridge size cause less fatigue in my hands when shuffling a lot. I do a riffle where I lay my hands over the two halves of the deck and pull up with the thumbs like this:

For me, even though I have large hands, it's more comfortable to have my fingers closer to my thumbs while riffling. It's a small difference, but noticable.
To each his own.

 

[GamingWithChips]

Bridge size cause less fatigue in my hands when shuffling a lot. I do a riffle where I lay my hands over the two halves of the deck and pull up with the thumbs like this:
View attachment 1611226

For me, even though I have large hands, it's more comfortable to have my fingers closer to my thumbs while riffling. It's a small difference, but noticable.
To each his own.

I agree on holding the cards, I often deal for my friends when I'm out of a tournament to speed things up, and definitely notice that poker size starts to fatigue my hand holding the deck for a while. Maybe when this happens I'll switch the deck to bridge sized lol

 

[Taghkanic]

If bridge cards are more inclusive for people to deal, and make it easier to hold larger quantities of cards, and are adopted by a larger population, doesn't that, by definition, make them a clear winner as a better card?

Big if. Who says they are “more inclusive”? Bridge might be better for people with small hands, worse for ones with big hands.

Not to mention, they cost less because less material is needed to make them.

One would think so... but some PCFers vociferously deny that this is true.

Do we have any metrics on worldwide sales of bridge vs. poker? Or total sales for poker rooms/casinos?

Unless you can find figures specific for sales specifically meant for poker, as opposed to all games, I think this is probably going to be hard to determine. How big is the home card market (not just poker) vs. casinos? We know that casinos ruin far more decks daily... But there are a lot more homes than casinos.

Anyway the more critical debate here (for me) is what is better for the non-casino games I host and play in, not what is best for a casino.

Most of the home/private games I play in use poker-sized decks. But that is anecdotal.

Most but not all of my games have dealers, another key factor. What is best for a pro vs. an amateur.

 

[Taghkanic]

I actually just went through a long exercise with ChatGPT to work through the physics of pitching cards without them flipping. There were a ton more variables to consider beyond anything we have discussed here (e.g., How fast is the typical pitch? Is the dealer trying to make the cards land in front of the player, or slamming them against the wall? What is the weight of the cards? What are they made of, how stiff are they, and how heavy? How long is the table? etc. etc.)

I had it use Faded Spade bridge and poker sized cards, since those are the brand I see most often in casinos, and limited to three typical distances (near player, midrange player, player farthest from the dealer).

I’m happy to share the full chat with anyone actually interested in the gory details (lots of equations!), but the main takeaways were:

(1) The differences between 2.25" and 2.5" wide are relatively marginal as far as which are more likely to flip.

(2) I asked it to also run 2.35" for shits and giggles, and it preferred that width over the other two, though again the differences were marginal.

(3) It concluded that a far bigger factor contributing to misdeals is how cupped the cards are. A warped deck may be a much bigger problem than a slightly wider or narrower card size.

 

[Poker Zombie]

(3) It concluded that a far bigger factor contributing to misdeals is how cupped the cards are.

There you have it. The final say in which is better, Bridge or Poker.

The answer is NOT Kem.

 

[Machine]

and easier to shuffle

I actually just went through a long exercise with ChatGPT to work through the physics of pitching cards without them flipping. There were a ton more variables to consider beyond anything we have discussed here (e.g., How fast is the typical pitch? Is the dealer trying to make the cards land in front of the player, or slamming them against the wall? What is the weight of the cards? What are they made of, how stiff are they, and how heavy? How long is the table? etc. etc.)

I think both of these points are moot; even if they both swing to favor a card type, they are so minimal that they really don't matter.

Anyway the more critical debate here (for me) is what is better for the non-casino games I host and play in, not what is best for a casino.

I think the games you play are going to have an impact.

I would contend that the people who play hold'em only or predominantly don't matter; they are not players or gamblers, and therefore do not count for either poker or bridge.

Still looking for my mic drop emoji.

(3) It concluded that a far bigger factor contributing to misdeals is how cupped the cards are. A warped deck may be a much bigger problem than a slightly wider or narrower card size.

This is a moot point, and AI gets so much wrong because it doesn't pitch, it can't deal. The most significant factor in misdeals is humans pitching cards into others' hands or people moving their hands in the way.

At the end of the day, only YOU can prevent forest fires determine what you like best, poker or bridge.


P.S. I hope my humor comes through. I don't think less of hold'em players as people, per se; they still deserve rights protected by our Constitution, and I wouldn't advocate that they receive less air than real gamblers/degens.

 

[BPTDirector]

I must have played 10,000 hands of double deck pinochle when I was in the service. 20 full size cards in your mitt at one time. My hands are medium sized but never had a problem.

 

[Taghkanic]

iT's HaRd tO pLaY pLo wItH pOkEr SiZeD cArDs

 

[GamingWithChips]

I feel like the size of cards in your hand only matters when playing UNO.

Does this forum like UNO? It's my favourite competitive/contact card game.

 

[BPTDirector]

I played one event at my house with the Fournier WSOP setup and a lot of my players asked if we were playing with a kiddie deck. I’m not joking. I personally didn’t mind but gotta keep the group happy.

 

[RocAFella1]

iT's HaRd tO pLaY pLo wItH pOkEr SiZeD cArDs

 

[Taghkanic]

mY FiNgErS hUrT wHeN i sHuFfLe pOkEr-sIzEd cArDs



mY FiNgErS:

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Having to convince AI you're right, then using AI outputs as an argument is hilarious. Convinced this is trolling at this point.

 

[Taghkanic]

Having to convince AI you're right, then using AI outputs as an argument is hilarious. Convinced this is trolling at this point.

If you can do the kind of physics analysis that A.I. can, and are you willing to respond instantly to my questions at any time of day, I’m happy to use your human expertise instead.

Anyway, I am now going to try to find a company which will produce 2.35" x 3.5" cards, since it is now proven that 2.35" is a more optimal width. Haven’t decided whether to call these chat-sized or nerd-sized decks.

 

[RocAFella1]

Dealer Ergonomics: Bridge cards are 0.25 inches narrower than poker cards. This might seem negligible, but for someone pitching hundreds of hands an hour, that smaller width is much easier to grip and manipulate.
Easier Shuffling: The narrower width is more comfortable for manual shuffling, reducing hand fatigue over play.

Since you're so adamant about science can you show me scientific proof that the above statements from your darling AI are categorically false?

I'm sure you're fun at a poker table. Telling people their own, lived experience is simply wrong from an objective industrial design / usability standpoint has to be the most obtuse statement someone can make. Apparently we're all so stuck on the premise that bridge handles better that we've never taken the time to try magnum size for ourselves to be able to properly refute this fact proven by science.

I'm waiting for you to measure everyone's size.

 

[ClutchBrady]

I think it's all dependent on the brand. I had some stiff bridge cards from Amazon called Ice or something that I absolutely loved. But COPAG bridge size SUCK. It feels like dealing thin notebook paper flopping around everywhere.

I like Faded Spade stuff, including their bridge, but yeah on occasion the four card games can get a little tough with the wider poker size.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

If you can do the kind of physics analysis that A.I. can, and are you willing to respond instantly to my questions at any time of day, I’m happy to use your human expertise instead.

Anyway, I am now going to try to find a company which will produce 2.35" x 3.5" cards, since it is now proven that 2.35" is a more optimal width. Haven’t decided whether to call these chat-sized or nerd-sized decks.

You're having a problem differentiating AI outputs with AI reasoning. It told you what you wanted to hear after you made your side clear. I've had it agreeing that sound gets stronger as it travels, and gravity doesn't affect parts of the ocean. Whenever in any doubt it makes shit up and agrees with you.

Believing AI outputs over real world dealer experience cause you don't trust the real dealers not to be biased is bananas.

 

[Old State]

I didn’t realize that “always” means “since the 1970s.”

50+ years ago . It seems to be an infatuation with you to find a popular belief and argue the contrary….no matter how weak the argument is and regardless of the metal gymnastics you go through to try and make a point.

Bridge cards have been the choice of nearly all Casino card rooms for decades….and you are here trying to convince everyone they all chose wrong for over half a century …at least…despite having the luxury of choosing anything they could possibly want.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

This Tastes Great/Less Filling argument makes me roll my eyes everytime because I doubt anyone's views are ever gonna change.

As far as the physical differences go I think it's a weak-sauce cookie-cutter argument that bridge size is easier or better for everyone. Some people can palm a basketball & some cannot. Why wouldn't casinos chose the card everyone can use/deal? The world is built for little people so why shouldn't cards be the same? Reminds me how ridiculous it is getting down on my knees just to see the screen at ATMs these days. Countertops, toilets, airplane seats, shit, I would complain about not being able to fit in my Ferrari too but we didn't hit the goddamn powerball!!!

I personally like the way Poker size feel & couldn't care less about the tradition of casinos & the WSOP using Bridge since the dawn of time. The WPT & other shows use Poker Sized. Is this because they look better? I think they do look WAY better than their anorexic counterparts but that's just my preference. I also prefer IHC & FHC to 39mm though so WTF do I know

This might seem negligible, but for someone pitching hundreds of hands an hour, that smaller width is much easier to grip and manipulate.

Hundreds of hands an hour? Give that Dealer a RAISE!!! And for the record even I wouldn't make you play with 4-Color Poker Sized. That's just cruel...

 

[AlbinoDragon]

Ugh.

This thread has now devolved to the point that this is now two 11 year olds touting "mine's bigger than yours is" but will never drop to prove the other is wrong has ended any interest I had this thread (not that there was much at all).

It's like like many of us say here with chips, "get what makes you and you players happy" and "do what is good for the game".


I see so many 'opinions' here that this thread is better relegated to the politics forum as it's obvious that the "arguments" being made here aren't being received by any of the parties involved.



"I'm right"

"No! I'm right"

"But... you're wrong."



"Duck season"

"Rabbit season"

"Duck season"

"Rabbit Season"

"RABBIT SEASON"

***BANG***



Sheesh. Kill this thread, PLEASE!

Nobody is going to "win" this one, not even Elmer!

 

[Old State]

Ugh.

This thread has now devolved to the point that this is now two 11 year olds touting "mine's bigger than yours is" but will never drop to prove the other is wrong has ended any interest I had this thread (not that there was much at all).

It's like like many of us say here with chips, "get what makes you and you players happy" and "do what is good for the game".


I see so many 'opinions' here that this thread is better relegated to the politics forum as it's obvious that the "arguments" being made here aren't being received by any of the parties involved.



"I'm right"

"No! I'm right"

"But... you're wrong."



"Duck season"

"Rabbit season"

"Duck season"

"Rabbit Season"

"RABBIT SEASON"

***BANG***



Sheesh. Kill this thread, PLEASE!

Nobody is going to "win" this one, not even Elmer!

The conversation has been had before and it’s usually a civil one and comes down to personal preference. The difference here is that we now have a small but vocal contrarian element (Basically one person with a history of this behavior) telling you you are wrong for your preference and to help justify this makes objectively incorrect assertions that the industry standard is a modern invention (55+ years ago coinciding with the first poker rooms in Vegas) and that it’s based on cost savings ….which is completely ludicrous.

 

[Old State]

Do we have any metrics on worldwide sales of bridge vs. poker? Or total sales for poker rooms/casinos?

Probably but if I had to guess (and I’d wager heavily) is that poker sized paper cards are the overwhelming majority of what sold to the population. They are literally at every grocery store.

As for poker rooms in casinos…not sure how to look that up…but from having played in most of the big ones in Vegas, AC, other places I’d bet you probably couldn’t find a casino card rooms using poker sized cards. Bridge cards are 100% the industry standard. Anyone questioning this has clearly not spent much time playing in casino card rooms.

If I had to put money on it I’d say 98% of casino card rooms in the US are using bridge sized cards and at least 90% are using specifically Kem brand bridge sized cards. I say 98% only because I have to assume there is some little casino in North Dakota or Alaska, etc using poker sized cards…but probably not

Even when you watch poker vlogs shot at smaller card rooms across the US you see only bridge sized cards. What you do see at these little casino rooms in rural areas, which blows my mind, is the use of non branded Copag (bridge sized) the same anyone can buy off Amazon. I know the automatic cards shufflers counts the deck and dealers are also trained to count the stub routinely throughout the game, the security risk of marked cards and types of potential cheating seem to be elevated.

Pics I have of bridge sized cards in use at five major casino.

 

[Taghkanic]

50+ years ago . It seems to be an infatuation with you to find a popular belief and argue the contrary….no matter how weak the argument is and regardless of the metal gymnastics you go through to try and make a point.

Bridge cards have been the choice of nearly all Casino card rooms for decades….and you are here trying to convince everyone they all chose wrong for over half a century …at least…despite having the luxury of choosing anything they could possibly want.

It may come as news to the willfully ignorant who prefer never to do their own research or question any conventional wisdom... But poker has existed for a lot longer than 50 years.

It is believed to have evolved from other European and/or Arabian games at least 200 years ago in the United States (likely around New Orleans).

So poker and its standards did not come magically and suddenly into existence in the 1970s; and there is nothing about the 1970s that is particularly special except the rapid commercialization of gambling (and the related ramped up mass-production of poker gear, previously more of a specialized realm, as well as the creeping consolidation of casino ownership—the economics of which led to many choices being made which benefited management more than players).

While many rules, customs and standards of the game have evolved over those two centuries, the 2.5" x 3.5" size of cards actually *predates* poker by many years, having established itself as a standard in the late 1700s and early 1800s for other games, largely due to the influence of some printers in England and France who greatly revolutionized the production of cards.

This 2.5" width and 3.5" height didn't just appear out of thin air. It evolved over centuries of experimentation by numerous societies before settling at 2.5" x 3.5". Many generations of gamblers and producers tried smaller cards, bigger cards, square cards, round cards, long cards, etc.

This is an excellent example of how organic trial-and-error, spanning many variations and billions of iterations, can lead to optimal results.

And it’s worth noting that this “poker” size became a standard in numerous games *at a time when people were generally a lot smaller than they are now.*

Smaller people, smaller hands at the time the standard was set. So if anything, you would expect decks to be getting bigger, not smaller.

 

[Taghkanic]

Probably but if I had to guess (and I’d wager heavily) is that poker sized paper cards are the overwhelming majority of what sold to the population. They are literally at every grocery store.

As for poker rooms in casinos…not sure how to look that up…but from having played in most of the big ones in Vegas, AC, other places I’d bet you probably couldn’t find a casino card rooms using poker sized cards. Bridge cards are 100% the industry standard. Anyone questioning this has clearly not spent much time playing in casino card rooms.

If I had to put money on it I’d say 98% of casino card rooms in the US are using bridge sized cards and at least 90% are using specifically Kem brand bridge sized cards. I say 98% only because I have to assume there is some little casino in North Dakota or Alaska, etc using poker sized cards…but probably not

Even when you watch poker vlogs shot at smaller card rooms across the US you see only bridge sized cards. What you do see at these little casino rooms in rural areas, which blows my mind, is the use of non branded Copag (bridge sized) the same anyone can buy off Amazon. I know the automatic cards shufflers counts the deck and dealers are also trained to count the stub routinely throughout the game, the security risk of marked cards and types of potential cheating seem to be elevated.

Pics I have of bridge sized cards in use at five major casino.

View attachment 1612183View attachment 1612184View attachment 1612185View attachment 1612186View attachment 1612187

No one is disputing that U.S. casinos overwhelmingly use bridge-sized cards now. Straw man argument there...

The questions are (a) whether there sound reasons why casinos use them now, and (b) whether this relatively new standard is actually optimal, and (c) whether casino standards are necessarily good for home games.

 

[Bronson]

Casinos should definitely use this narrow, tall tarock card size for poker.

Ps. They’re nightmare to shuffle.

 

[Huskerchipper]

Reminds me how ridiculous it is getting down on my knees just to see the screen at ATMs these days.

Aha!!! Something that actually deserves this kind of research and discussion!! Can we get these short people to grow tf up!!??? Someone needs to run this thru AI STAT!!!

 

[JustinInMN]

Hundreds of hands an hour? Give that Dealer a RAISE!!!

I would assume "hands" in this sense means per player per deal. Each of 8 players gets one hand and the dealer can do this 30 times an hours (slower in more than two card games of course.)