Playing 'Bank' - Tips & What I've Already Learned... The Hard Way (1 Viewer)

[edwardstarcraft]

on another note, I have started using an app by @edwardstarcraft called poker tools; There are a few things in there but I really like the game aspect, I don't have anyone else using an account where we sync up, but I do like it because of the ease of use to add a player name and then track the buy ins and rebuys. It makes it very easy to manage the bank, and when you're done it deletes after like 2 weeks.

I like it. Here is his OP for the app

The nice thing about the app (compared to the whiteboard/marker/notepad/etc method) is that you can tell the app how much you have in chips in your bank. If you have your chips nicely racked, you can quickly count your bank on each buy to make sure all of your chips are good.

Players who want to know how much they're in for can download the app & get notified on each buy, which also reduces the chance for error. And if someone pays you before they leave or something, you can record the payments to keep track even further.

I've run 2-3 tables simultaneously and it helps me stay sane & ensure a bank without error.

 

[B0mbp0t]

My game:

• I can't be both dealer and bank. I offer up if anyone wants to play bank, or if two people volunteer to deal. I'm fine with either. But playing dealer and bank at the same time increases chance of error (for me), slows the game, and decreases my ability to focus on the game/overall enjoyment.
• I'm fine with both cash and Venmo/PP, but I keep a list in a notebook of buyins, and separate them by type. Eg: John has a line in notebook, each buy-in in succession, Venmo/PP buy-ins are circled. Then I have a column running at the bottom for each type (cash, Venmo, PP) and add as we go. That way I can confirm the total for each column against the apps or the cash box instantly.
• Chips in your hand once $ is in my hand (or my phone). No exceptions.
• If you leave before the game breaks and have a payout coming, it comes via the most recent way you bought. And entire table confirms the stack
• At end of night, no one leaves until we're all paid out, and dealer is paid last

 

[Salmonblaster]

50 bucks little man, put that cash in my hand.

If that money doesn't show, then you owe me, owe me, owe....

With that being said, I have quite enjoyed this thread and have some good tips for hosting/banking going forward.

 

[surfik]

the "cash only" rule is the best

if you need to accept I "own you" :
1. find a way to manage Venmo payments, kind of hard if you drinking
2. ask your friends to go to their banks and ask for a checkbook, most of the time they are issued with no fees, you do not have to cash it but you do have collateral just in case

PS
In my days I accepted foregin currency, casino chips and others but cash at hand is the best, I do hope you have an ITM in your street

 

[4SUMERZ]

I only take cash at my home game, and the guys know to arrive with cash. They get lot's of notice on game nights, so no excuses. ATM or stop at a bank to get cash.
The great thing about cash, is that it may limit how much one will lose in an evening. Once the cash is gone, so are you unless you can borrow cash from another player. The Bank has no skin in that one, as the bank will not loan to anyone.
Pay in cash, get paid in cash at the end of the session.
When we count chips for the cash outs, each player gets a chip tray(s) to put their chips in. They count the chip's themselves. That way, if the money in vs money out doesn't match, it is easy to recount chip's from the trays.
Works for our games.

 

[Taxi500]

I still to date disagree with cash. Not to light a fire here again but the idea of 3-4k being at my house scares me more than than any aforementioned risks.

 

[lolfdgb]

I still to date disagree with cash. Not to light a fire here again but the idea of 3-4k being at my house scares me more than than any aforementioned risks.

I'm the same way– currently it's all pretty close friends at my games, so if they're not honoring Venmos there are bigger issues... but I'm skittish of having the cash on site. Plus, most players are younger guys that aren't used to having too much cash anyways!

 

[BarrieJ3]

1. I suck at banking. Banked once won’t bank again.

2. I’m thankful for those that bank.

3. My desired scenario: I would like to have a cage or vault for the bank. It’s realistic if we move, as wife knows that a basement is mandatory and really I only need like 6 feet walled off to build a cage.

Doesn’t if cash or venmo/pp/etc., but prefer non cash. Buy ins and add ons signed for at the cage.

4. My dream: To have a reg game with reg players and hosts. Every player would have their own built in safe deposit type box. They’d have the only key to their box, I’d have the key to the cage.

(I just have this idea stuck in my head of not exchanging money every game. Back when we played a bit last year, I even joked about the idea of handing $1-2k to each local host so I didn’t need to worry about bringing cash or anything)

 

[Pinkdan]

I’d have the key to the cage.

 

[rjbf65]

I am the banker in the 2 games I play in. One of the games I run and the other is at a buddies house. He prefers I do the banking duties. I get great satisfaction out of the bank being exactly right at the end of the night. I like to confirm the counts with everyone on each transaction. It doesn't take much time.

We play .25/.25 or .25/.50 for the most part. Will see anywhere from $400 to $800 on the table in a night. We are always chips for cash and cash for chips. If you don't have the cash on you then you have to Venmo someone else who has cash or they will loan you the money. That way the bank is never short. I always pay myself last.

Sometimes we payout exact change to the quarter and other times we do a chip race for the odd $1 or $2 worth of change remaining at the end of the night for one last sweat for the evening, which is my preference. If someone cashes out early and has an odd amount then they put that in the middle of the pot for the remaining players to play for the next hand.

 

[BPTDirector]

Set buy in/ rebuy amounts. I use lammers between buy in/rebuy sets of chips arranged in my table rack side cart. I can tell by how many and what lammers are used for how much should be in the money box. But I deal with cash which makes it easier to manage. All chips and money are in controlled environments. You could do the same balancing by having a specific Venmo account for your game, then quick balance lammers to account balance.

 

[jazzV3]

One more lesson learned - if banking and you grab a handful of chips to pay out a re-buy, DON'T allow another player to interrupt you during the transaction.
Also, no matter how much another player wants to "help" handing out chip stacks and no matter how fast players want to cash out at the end of the session:

• The assigned bank is the only one to hand out chips AFTER collecting the player's funds
• The assigned bank does a recount of the declared value of the player's cash out chips
• Chips are not mixed or put away until all players cash out and the bank is even

Ignoring these typically results in a bank that's off at the end of the night.

 

[exodus]

I’m not sure if this has been touched on but if someone were to leave early do you guys do a full count of the chips on the table and bank to make sure everything matches before cashing out the player or cash out the player on the table to ensure the stack is correct for the payout in front of everyone?

 

[detroitdad]

I’m not sure if this has been touched on but if someone were to leave early do you guys do a full count of the chips on the table and bank to make sure everything matches before cashing out the player or cash out the player on the table to ensure the stack is correct for the payout in front of everyone?

No. I run the bank. If it is off. It is my problem. I also don't care if everyone, or anyone witnesses it. If you cash out. I count the chips in front of you. Then I hand you that much cash.

 

[Lord_Foldemort]

One argument in favor of a cashless game that I am surprised wasn't made is how much easier it makes cashing players out. Before I switched to Venmo it was such a pain to make change from the $20s and $50s players bring for buy-in, especially when your doing .25/.50 or .50/1. I also hate the idea of having $100-$200 in quarters, ones and fives just sitting around to make change. Don't get me wrong, I love the feeling of walking away with a wad of bills after a night of poker as much as the next guy; my hate for breaking the $50s that people brought for buying into a .25/.50 game simply outweighs that love.

 

[Machine]

One argument in favor of a cashless game that I am surprised wasn't made is how much easier it makes cashing players out. Before I switched to Venmo it was such a pain to make change from the $20s and $50s players bring for buy-in, especially when your doing .25/.50 or .50/1. I also hate the idea of having $100-$200 in quarters, ones and fives just sitting around to make change. Don't get me wrong, I love the feeling of walking away with a wad of bills after a night of poker as much as the next guy; my hate for breaking the $50s that people brought for buying into a .25/.50 game simply outweighs that love.

The point has been made, going cashless isn’t popular. Most of us running .25/.5 don’t cash out anything less than 1 dollar. You can race for the last change which has been mentioned.

It sounds like you were doing it wrong, if it’s that much of a headache.

 

[edwardstarcraft]

I’m not sure if this has been touched on but if someone were to leave early do you guys do a full count of the chips on the table and bank to make sure everything matches before cashing out the player or cash out the player on the table to ensure the stack is correct for the payout in front of everyone?

I have chips in the bank nicely racked so it's pretty easy to do a quick count of the bank when someone leaves. I usually do this to make sure that there are no errors.

I made a video detailing my process -- got pretty viral on Instagram.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[exodus]

I have chips in the bank nicely racked so it's pretty easy to do a quick count of the bank when someone leaves. I usually do this to make sure that there are no errors.

I made a video detailing my process -- got pretty viral on Instagram.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

I actually have been using your app for the past few months. It has made paying out such a breeze. Thanks for creating it!

 

[Lord_Foldemort]

The point has been made, going cashless isn’t popular. Most of us running .25/.5 don’t cash out anything less than 1 dollar. You can race for the last change which has been mentioned.

It sounds like you were doing it wrong, if it’s that much of a headache.

I wouldn't say headache; to me it is simply more of a work smarter not harder thing. Much of the anti-cashless arguments in the previous thread give me flashbacks to hearing my grandfather rant about how nobody uses cash anymore. I can see how the whole debate could be more of a generational thing. Digital transactions are more efficient, especially now that fewer people carry cash (there's really no reason to anymore). If you disagree, it sounds like you might be doing it wrong . But hey, different strokes for different folks. I respect your opinion

 

[SwissChip]

Maybe not, but it removes robbery and/or prosecution from the equation. Easy to set up an online game for you and your friends.

If you want to maintain the in-person social aspect as well, just host at home (or anywhere, really) and tell everybody to bring their phone. Games will run faster and smoother, too.

Crooks or cops rush in, see no cards, chips, or money -- just a group of people looking at their phones.....

The phone replaces everything - even Poker.
Weird...but reality.

Topic:
- Chips only go out when cash handed out/transfer made
(- Let someone else at the table re-count the stack/rebuy)
- Write the Names + amounts down

 

[BarrieJ3]

Micro buy ins and rebuys are nearly impossible to keep track of while you are hosting (and drinking), even if you are writing it down. Even if u get the bank right, u need to deal with rebuys every other hand. So annoying as a host. The bag system cures all of that!

At the beginning of the night give every player a bag of chips with a pre- determined amount but enough for multiple rebuys - in your case say $250 (or whatever amount you want). Either collect cash or write it down. Let everyone do their own banking over the course of the night. If a player blows through the bag give them a rebuy in the same amount as the initial bag. The amount of rebuys over the course of the night goes way way down. At the end of the night each player tells you how much they are up or down. Everyone puts their chips in the bag. Add up the ups and downs to make sure the bank is right. if the bank doesn’t add up you can check each persons bag to find the error. This system is so much more accurate accounting wise and enjoyable for the host (not dealing with rebuys all night). Trust me, it works and works well.

Additionally, as a back stop, the initial bag should contain all the lower denominations necessary for the night. If someone does rebuy, introduce a new higher denomination chip. That way you can keep track of the rebuys based upon how many hi denomination chips are in circulation.

Yeah, it makes it easier on the host during the game. But it seems like a lot more work for the host before the game and a lot more work for the host and the players after the game.
Also if everybody starts ordering customized bags off Etsy, my head might explode.

Oh my god. Why, why hasn’t this been done. Brilliant, bloody brilliant.

Ordering custom bags now.

 

[SwissChip]

Micro buy ins and rebuys are nearly impossible to keep track of while you are hosting (and drinking), even if you are writing it down. Even if u get the bank right, u need to deal with rebuys every other hand. So annoying as a host. The bag system cures all of that!

At the beginning of the night give every player a bag of chips with a pre- determined amount but enough for multiple rebuys - in your case say $250 (or whatever amount you want). Either collect cash or write it down. Let everyone do their own banking over the course of the night. If a player blows through the bag give them a rebuy in the same amount as the initial bag. The amount of rebuys over the course of the night goes way way down. At the end of the night each player tells you how much they are up or down. Everyone puts their chips in the bag. Add up the ups and downs to make sure the bank is right. if the bank doesn’t add up you can check each persons bag to find the error. This system is so much more accurate accounting wise and enjoyable for the host (not dealing with rebuys all night). Trust me, it works and works well.

Additionally, as a back stop, the initial bag should contain all the lower denominations necessary for the night. If someone does rebuy, introduce a new higher denomination chip. That way you can keep track of the rebuys based upon how many hi denomination chips are in circulation.

This is great man!

 

[BarrieJ3]

I can't choose. These scream Barrie

But what if I'm playing with DetroidDad's Parks and Rec set?!

I can't play at a meetup with Scmendrick and not have this one

Oh boy, decisions decisions

 

[aggie]

Digital transactions are more efficient traceable

Digital transactions are more efficient taxable

Digital transactions are more efficient susceptible to seized funds

Digital transactions are great until they’re not.

Transfer $100 buy-ins between friends, sure, but don’t fool yourself into thinking digital is always “better”. If it was, the gambling Mecca of the world would be using Venmo, too.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Micro buy ins and rebuys are nearly impossible to keep track of while you are hosting (and drinking), even if you are writing it down. Even if u get the bank right, u need to deal with rebuys every other hand. So annoying as a host. The bag system cures all of that!

At the beginning of the night give every player a bag of chips with a pre- determined amount but enough for multiple rebuys - in your case say $250 (or whatever amount you want). Either collect cash or write it down. Let everyone do their own banking over the course of the night. If a player blows through the bag give them a rebuy in the same amount as the initial bag. The amount of rebuys over the course of the night goes way way down. At the end of the night each player tells you how much they are up or down. Everyone puts their chips in the bag. Add up the ups and downs to make sure the bank is right. if the bank doesn’t add up you can check each persons bag to find the error. This system is so much more accurate accounting wise and enjoyable for the host (not dealing with rebuys all night). Trust me, it works and works well.

Additionally, as a back stop, the initial bag should contain all the lower denominations necessary for the night. If someone does rebuy, introduce a new higher denomination chip. That way you can keep track of the rebuys based upon how many hi denomination chips are in circulation.

Yeah, it makes it easier on the host during the game. But it seems like a lot more work for the host before the game and a lot more work for the host and the players after the game.
Also if everybody starts ordering customized bags off Etsy, my head might explode.

This is great man!

I can't choose. These scream Barrie

View attachment 1202984
View attachment 1202985

But what if I'm playing with DetroidDad's Parks and Rec set?!

View attachment 1202986

I can't play at a meetup with Scmendrick and not have this one

View attachment 1202988

Oh boy, decisions decisions

Aaaaaaand done.

 

[allforcharity]

What's next, electronic tables?

(Runs away, ducking and weaving)

 

[RowlettTexasChipGuy]

I only do cash
I only give out chips, start of the night rebuys, any additional cash on the table gets converted to chips.
I only take the chips back and I only pay out the winners.

Never had a wrong bank, not once.

It really is not that hard.

 

[Machine]

Much of the anti-cashless arguments in the previous thread give me flashbacks to hearing my grandfather rant about how nobody uses cash anymore. I can see how the whole debate could be more of a generational thing. Digital transactions are more efficient, especially now that fewer people carry cash (there's really no reason to anymore).

 

[JustinInMN]

I wanted to talk about this part of your statement. It doesn’t appear that anyone has addressed it.

It sounds like you are combining your stack with the bank… and not buying in yourself when you need a rebuy.. effectively purposely putting the bank in error.

You should definitely keep the bank separate from your stack. Keep them on a table behind you or something.

I understand not wanting (or being able to) Venmo yourself. But you should be putting an IOU in the bank… or a note in your phone when you rebuy. It is essential to know how much went out as you bring it back in.

My guess is this is the reason you were having difficulty. You may have been pulling more from the bank than you realize. That's why I always pay the bank out of my pocket for my chips.

I still to date disagree with cash. Not to light a fire here again but the idea of 3-4k being at my house scares me more than than any aforementioned risks.

I see you are entrenched here. I personally think cash-in, cash-out is best. I will offer some venmo but always pay the bank with cash.

But no matter how you slice it, if you are electronic only, you either have to wait for venmo to clear before you issue chips. Or you have to write buy-in down by hand to enable one transaction per player at settle-up time. (Including your own.) Doesn't necessarily have to be as public as a white board. But writing each player on a line in a notebook should work well enough. I would set up something like this

Player	Buy ins	Buy in total	Cash Out	Win	Loss
A (host)	100 50 50
B	100 50
C	100 100
D	100
E	100
F	100
TOTAL

Then upon cash out, calculate the total buy-ins and subtract the amount of chips bought and assign a win and loss to each player

Player	Buy ins	Buy in total	Cash Out	Win	Loss
A (host)	100 50 50	200	226	26
B	100 50	150	108		42
C	100 100	200	63		137
D	100	100	88		12
E	100	100	312	212
F	100	100	53		47
TOTAL		850	850	238	238

As long as buy in = cash out and win = loss, you have done your job.

Then to make it one transaction per player, all the losers pay one player (either the host or the big winner) and that player pays out the other winners, that seems a better system than trying to make wins and losses match up and require split transactions.

 

[Goldfish]

1. multiple transactions over the course of the night depends on the banker’s tolerance for interruption during the game (assuming the banker is playing). almost every other hand someone wants to reload or top off. I find it annoying and a disruption to my game. Others don’t. For those that don't mind doing numerous banking transaction over the course of the night, G-d bless you and go for it. For those that do mind, the bag system works great.

2. cash verse electronic depends on the size of the game. Comparing a .25/.50 game to a 2/5, 5/5 or 10/25 game is an apples to oranges comparison. For a micro stakes game, cash generally is fine. But any decent size home game that demands cash for chips is just asking for trouble IMO. I wouldn’t even go to that game but that’s just me.